Tomwrx

iTrader: (54)

thats a lot of reading but heres some more info for you,
unless the police have camera evidence u u cannot be charged even though there are 2 of them ,if there aint no independant witness then its ure word against theres,
plus if the have failed to identify themselves then its illegal to stop u
my mate was chased by 4 cop cars for speeding in a housing area and it got kicked out in court as although there were 8 officers involved in the chase the werent independant witnesses and they had no photo or cam evidence the judge kicked it out of court,
i got caught by local cops doin 60 in a 30 in my old car a few yrs ago,tried to charge me,but couldnt as it my word against theres and they had no evidence to prove otherwise,
Police officers must identify themselves before arresting or tryin to stop u thats why unmarked police cars have blue lights ,to show the motorist that they are trying to stop them ,so as they failed to identify i would let them take u all the way mate .best oh luck in beating these *****

brownjd5

In my very first post I should have made it clear that it was a single white broken line, have a look at the photo of the site in this link http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...5/SSL20482.jpg which clearly shows the location of the overtake. I pulled out level with the dirt track you can see on the left, overtook and pulled back in to the left before the first left hand bend you can see. The two oafs in black uniforms are simply lying about what happened and where it happened.

My traffic officer friend who has access to everything that these liars wrote says that in their witness statement (which the fiscal has still not passed to my solicitor.....) the liars say that I did around 67 mph through a 30 mph limit (er, 200m from my home). They also say that my driving was so erratic they could not confirm my speed and that I prevented them from overtaking me. When their overtake (through a red traffic light which I had already stopped at !) forced me to a halt (?) I was shouting and swearing and it seems that only their professional approach to the situation saved me from being arrested for public order offences.

I would remind you all that I was in my stationary car with my son when I was verbally abused through my drivers side window by the male officer, words are beginning to fail me with these scum.

D Noble

bloody hell, that is a pretty open road, apart from the bend which would be blind from oncoming cars for what 2-3 secs?? you would be able to see what is comng down hill and safely overtake! if it goes to court make sure your soliciter puts that up on a big white screen!!
sounds like it wont come to that(hopefully for you).
i did a motorcycle course with the glasgow police, (great day it was too) and the instructor would positivley encourage being in the other side of the road to increase the vision through the bend!! he said there is no law against that even if in a car!

brownjd5

Hi, actually you never lose sight of vehicles coming down that road. I took some video on the same day as I took that photo (standing in the same location) and you can see cars coming down from the far brow of the hill and when they go round the left hander towards you the tops of the cars are still visible. I had completed my overtake well before that left hand bend and the two lying p.c's have now backtracked from what they said at the scene (i.e. that I overtook them on a blind left hand bend) to now saying that I overtook them at a blind right hand bend prior to the actual straight that I did pass them on.......... The right hand bend they refer to is not actually blind as it is possible to see through the bushes at certain times of year (not now in other words!) but more pertinently before you turn into the road shown you can see all the way round (or through) the allegedly blind right hand bend and up to 450 metres along the country road shown.

G.Mac

iTrader: (2)

I would ask your lawyer to ask to see their notebooks as when they cautioned you they are supposed to write everything down in their notebooks, ensure that they have not managed to get a "Clean" notebook just for using at court (that is a no no as they are not supposed to have more than one notebook at a time)
The notebook will hold more weight in court as it is contemporary evidence and make sure he compares both the officers notebooks for differences

ensure your lawer finds out when the notebook that the copies of the pages relating to you was issued as well.

I used to work for the Scottish Fisheries and we had to photocopy our notebooks and submit the pages as evidence with our statements, thus why I was saying to try find out if they had a 2nd "neat" notebook

Graeme

brownjd5

Graeme,
Thanks for the above information, it sounds like good advice. My lawyer says that you can only ask to see their notebooks if they rely on them to give evidence and that they may not do so. However, I am going to instruct my lawyer to request formally, and in writing, sight of their notebooks (and evidence of their date of issue) and if we are not given this it will be brought up at a later date to discredit them.

brownjd5

The intermediate trial date was yesterday and it was a pretty depressing experience. The fiscal applied for an extension as "they are not ready and one of their witnesses is not available". I asked my lawyer to strenuously oppose this as they have had seven months to prepare and appear to have done absolutely nothing to prepare. They were awarded an extension to early 2010 and I complained bitterly at having this malicious nonsense hanging over me for even longer. The bench seemed to consider this unimportant and bent over backwards to accommodate the fiscal to my detriment.

bish667

iTrader: (1)

I despise the way the courts can operate, its disgusting that they can ask for more time to prepare after 7 months already.
UK laws are a joke.

kwaks

Hi Brown, sounds like a bit of a kicker this one.

Do not lose heart though, the Sheriffs sometimes do show a bit of common sense. In my cas I was returning home at 5am on a Sunday morning, next thing I knew I was wrapped around a lamp post 5 mins walk from my house. The first vehicle to pass me was the council grit lorry, and as it was cold I decided to call the police to report the accident and walk home, telling them to get me there. When the police arrived they were desperate to breathalise me (which is what I wanted as I hadnt been drinking) and were pretty rude until the all clear came up. After that they were pretty sound. When asked what had happened I said it was a bit of a blur, like I had dozed off or something, however I remember braking for the mini roundabout adjacent to the lamp post. Popo said he had to charge me, however not to worry as he was noting it was icy out and the road was at the time ungritted, so did not expect it to go anywhere.

Inevitably I got the standard revenue raising letter of plead guilty for points and small fine or face the wrath of the court. As a stubborn bugger I chose my day in court. Ultimately the case was thrown out and the sheriff gave the PF a public dressing down for wasting my time, that of the court and that of the police officers. I was prepared to take the stand, and my duty solicitor had requested me too when the Sheriff asked if that was a good idea with a wink.

Moral is, stick with it, the truth will come out

David Pinkerton

Another wee point , why did they drive through a RED light to stop you if they had no lights or sirens ,surely they should have requested a marked police car be made to stop you

brownjd5

I was stopped at the red light and they flew through on the wrong side of the road narrowly missing a head on collision with a silver Nissan Micra that was turning left from the main road on to the minor road I was already stopped on, the elderly lady driving the Nissan slammed her brakes on to avoid these clowns. These "officers" broke pretty much every road traffic law you can think of (and lots more that I cannot mention just yet) and I can only surmise that they have been watching rather too much television and harbour juvenile notions of being involved in high speed pursuits of Subaru Imprezas in a diesel Ford Focus. They did not broadcast a call for assisstance during the "pursuit" (a friend in traffic has already checked this out).
Mind you, can it really be a pursuit if the target (me) was completely unaware of the pursuit due to their inability to keep pace with my perfectly legal speeds along a country road?

brownjd5

Hello everyone, thanks for all the kind messages of support and as many of you all asked me to keep you informed of progress here goes;
(just all be aware of the fact that, as this matter is not yet settled, I have to chose my words very, very carefully and I still cannot inform you all of much of the evidence that may be used in my defence at a future date);

The trial was supposed to take place today but one of the police witnesses had to rush away and so the full trial could not take place. The fiscal wanted to proceed with a part trial (i.e. hear the "evidence of the witness who was there and reconvene at a later date to hear from the other one). I instructed my lawyer to object as it would be obvious that the first witness would then collude with the second one to ensure that the second one was fully aware of what the first one said and what questions we would be asking. This objection was successful and matters then moved on as follows; The fiscal then offered me a deal (3 points and £50 fine) but I said no thank you as I am entirely innocent of these baseless and malicious allegations I have no intention of accepting any deal.
I was then "threatened"/"coerced" with the fact that if I did not agree to an adjournment (the second time they have asked for this) then the case would not be called and the fiscal would desert this case but would reserve the right to re file the case with the much more serious charge of dangerous driving (one year ban, big fine and extended re-test) substitued instead of the currrent careless driving (likely three points and £150 fine) charge.
I listened to the advice of my lawyer and then decided to not to agree to any adjournment as my reasoning is still that, as I am entirely innocent of these allegations I should not fear to defend myself vigorously against any charges that result from these unfounded allegations.
So the case was deserted and now I have to wait to hear what results from this desertion as it is possible that much more serious charges may be levelled against me. It would be very easy to agree with the argument that it looks like I may well be punished for having the audacity to stand up for what is right and truthful and not agree to be bullied by the tools of the state (the police, this fiscal and the courts). Do you all thing that I would be paranoid if I agreed with this view or is this how things look to you guys?
This case has already cost me thousands of pounds, it would have been much cheaper to have taken an early guilty plea (even adding up the insurance company loading which would not have been much as my licence is clean) but it would have been wrong, plain and simply wrong, and I am not prepared to have my integrity impugned in this way by anyone.
There is so much more I would like to tell you all but I have to be very careful in what I say at the moment.
Hope you all keep well and safe in this crappy weather and keep a good look out (my car is in the process of being video equipped so that nothing like this could happen to me again as all of my journeys will automatically be recorded), imagine having to do this in a "free" country.

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

My opinion, I think its a bluff about the dangerous driving charge. Surely, if they thought your were truely guilty of such an offence, they'd have charged you with it at the time. After all, would be in the interest of public safety to get dangerous drivers off the road.
Also, I'm not certain of this, your solicitor can tell you, but I think they may be time barred from charging you with the more serious charge. Anyway, I think you did the right thing by standing up to them.
Perhaps when its finally settled, you could sue them to recover your costs.

Many years ago, I stood up to a pair of lying policemen in court, pleading not guilty against my solicitors advice. I recieved a £600 fine and a two year ban for my trouble. At least by telling the truth, my conscience was clear.
Unless there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the court will take almost always take the word of two uniformed liars over a truthful member of the public.

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Well done you.

I hope that's the end of it. Is there a time limit to re-file charges as in the 6 months from issue of the ticket sort of thing?

Otherwise hat off for standing up for yourself.

5t.

Alif

It sounds to me like the police have no case the stretch of road in the link I would have done the same to pass the car, they have had to go back time and time again in the hope that you would take the deal, they have tried it on and it didn't work, I had a similar case with an old mate years ago and after 5 times going back to the court they decided to fling it out.
It would not surprise me if it is the last you will hear of it, it costs the PF hundreds of pounds each time they take it to court and with no hard case its a no brainer. All the best hope it is all done with!!!

brownjd5

Good (ish) news - Heard nothing about the charge being upgraded within the 12 month limit so the Fiscal was obviously using threatening behaviour in order to force me to bow to the majesty of the crown. I subsequently put in my twenty eight point complaint letter (with appropriate legal advice) about the two PC scum involved in the case and was visited (a number of times) by a very senior officer who took statements from my son and I. He has sent a report to the Fiscal, he (the senior officer) stated that in his opinion the PC scum should be charged with a range of offences but warned me that the Fiscal will do nothing as the word of two lying PC scum is worth so much more than that of my son and I. He did say that even when he gets confirmation that the scum will not be charged by the Fiscal they broke a whole range of police protocols and guidelines and that they will be subject to disciplinary action in due course. He declined to discuss this action with me but has stated his intention to keep me informed, I will not hold my breath on that one.
The main things I could not tell you all at the time were mainly that, at the scene,
1) the male cop was drunk and stinking of alcohol
2) the male cop swore at me repeatedly
3) the male cop struck me on the face
4) the male cop tried to steal my mobile phone
5) the male cop threatened me repeatedly
and last but not least,
6) the female cop had her trousers around her knees when she got out of their car to confront me, she had to dress as she waddled towards my car.

All this in front of my 11 year old son and I was the one who ended up in court charged with fabricated offences!

Fleetwood

Oh my God!
I read this thread earlier this year and got really angry just reading it. You must have the patience of a Saint.
Good for you, that you went thought with it. A lot of money and stress but the right decision none the less.
Good Luck

Al

GlesgaKiss

That is unreal. You've done really well, and I don't know what the hell the stuff contained in that last post is all about and why no action was taken against it. Shocking doing that in front of your son. Certainly does make me angry reading it.

Well done anyway, and I hope nothing ever comes of the 'upgraded charges'.

SRSport

Just curious why you didnt point out the drunk cop to the marked car cops, surely then this would have prevented all your troubles. Sorry not much help now, I know.

Very sorry to hear about all the unfair hastle you've had to go through for justice but very pleasing to read your persistence is now seeing the tables turning on the two digraces. So many would have just taken a lesser conviction, which means these power abusers just carry on abusing. The more people that stand up to them the less this is going to happen.

WRX_SWRT

iTrader: (2)

well done bud

is that it finished regards driving offences?

Greig

Jimmy (mines a pint)

on sunday i was out in the scoob along with a few mates in their cars and i floored it along a road and flew past an unmarked bmw, i never seen it until it pulled out behind me, so i stuck to the limit when i entered town, i saw one of my mates parked up so when i was passing i tooted my horn, the police followed me for another 5minutes before pulling me over, i got a £60 fine for tooting my horn, the police officer says it was unnessesary noise and that i should only do it to warn people.

a fine for tooting a horn for half a second? what a *****, he only did it because he never had a speed gun.

the police are getting really pathetic now-a-days.

tathan

Ginola

iTrader: (25)

read all of this thread and am still shocked at the actions of the two cops, well done for sticking to your guns i hope that u recover all of your legal expenses.

EH52WRX

iTrader: (16)

SCUM, Thats what i think of them. Well done fella, get it up them. Just shows you, don't let them bully you. Fan ******* tastic :-)

brownjd5

The drunk cop staggered over to the marked car (single cop inside) and slurred at him through the drivers window for the breathalyser so I am certain that the cop inside the marked car knew of his state of inebriation (and did nothing to intervene) and so must have his female "partner" known of his condition. When the drunk cop hit me on the face with the breathalyser the one inside the marked car saw him do it but turned his head away and made it clear he would not help me.
Remember that the whole time my main motivation was to get my son safely away from these vermin in uniform as quickly as possible. By that time (when he assaulted me) I was getting close to losing my temper and considering sorting them out properly but the presence of my son made sure that I kept my temper and composure.
Hindsight is great is it not?

brownjd5

Yes it almost certainly is, they (the crown) are now time barred from calling this case although I believe in exceptional circumstances they can try it on but are very unlikely to succeed.

brownjd5

In Scotland you have to pay to defend yourself and there is no prospect of recovering the costs (unlike in England) so I am over £2000 out of pocket.

Unfortunately for PC scum and scumette they defamed me in writing and verbally and I have instructed counsel to prepare a defamation action against them for a very large sum of damages. It will cost me about £12000 to do but they will s**t themselves and hope the Police Federation will pay to defend them (which it may well do) but they will not cover any damages I am awarded. Luckily for me I can afford to pursue them in this way but what happens to the rest of us?

WRX_SWRT

iTrader: (2)

get after them mate this kind of thing is not on and good cops would want to see them done too.

Greig

SRSport

Absolutely go for it, but then its easy to for me to say as its not my money, time etc. but what a fantastic lesson it'll teach them, just cos they wear the uniform they think they own us and are above the law. It'll certainly make them think twice the next time they think about trying something like that.

RA Dunk

Fcuked, with a capital F.