LitchfieldImports

Yeap certainly something strange going on there When I spoke to Simon this evening, after they had sorted out their boost control problem, he said the car was only making 350lbft @1.5bar @4,000rpm. The LM480 uses one of the larger GT30R variants so I would definitely expect a 2.5 engine with that size turbo to make considerably more that 350lbft-400lbft @4,000rpm. We tested the size below (LM450) on our T25 and it made 1.5bar well under 3,000 rpm and over 450lbft.

I’m not convinced it’s the turbo yet but will work with you to make sure you are happy Tim Will call you in the morning.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Iain - I look forward to speaking tomorrow. I'll be collecting the car at lunchtime

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Any updates?

Shaun

Tim,
I am sure the cause and problem will be resolved. Unfortunately having multiple people involved, one for the engine, one for the mapping and others for supply of parts, can make resolving things a tad more difficult. The fact that Iain has said he will work with you to resolve is postive news..... he is certainly one of the good guys!

GazTheHat

Full boost at 4000rpm on a 2.5l, sheesh.

Teething problems are expected when you're at the forefront of mods. lOOking forward to hearing the results when it's sorted though

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Spot on Litchfield set's the benchmark for impreza's

Your in capable hands and am sure he will resolve the issue as i've only heard good things about these turbo's so it's might just be a minor glitch.

Immy

Shaun

Perhaps we should all wait to see where the "issue" is first, rather than some assuming it maybe the turbo.

It will get sorted inevitably.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

I wasnt referring to the turbo i meant in genral as you said earlier on having different partys carrying out the work will add to the confusion.

Immy

TimH

iTrader: (11)

I've just collected the car and driven it the 100 miles back home...suffice it to say for now, and having spoken with Len at S4U and Iain I've been advised not to drive the car at the moment

This is due to symptoms that do tend to suggest a faulty turbo, although this is just speculation as yet. The car will be recovered to Litchfield Imports early next week. Iain could not be more helpful and will be sorting this out

Yes, having multiple parties involved may not be the ideal, but I have nothing but praise for everyone involved - everyone's worked well together and have communicated regularly with the common interest of getting it sorted and seeing just what this new turbo can do

I'll keep everyone posted with progress as it unfolds.

T20Driver

iTrader: (3)

Alas Iain has run out of time to map mine before he goes away for the weekend, so mine will not be ready until end of Monday at the earliest .. so you can all stop hovering here !!!

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

another way to look at it is that you have more than one persons knowledge and 3 sets of eyes looking at it..

Simon

TimH

iTrader: (11)

That's the way I look at it Simon - and let me say publically how impressed I am with the co-operation I've witnessed between you, Len and Iain, not to mention the long hours and hard work.

Many, many thanks the 3 of you

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

there is a lot more comms, cooperation that goes on between traders than people realise

Simon

Kayen

I am glad there is a lot of great communication going on between everyone to get the issue figured out and solved. Good Luck Tim

Shaun

Immy,
Comment not meant to you mate.

Tim/Simon,
I'm glad you have had good communication.... it's certainly not the norm always. My point was that "things" can get complicated when working with several "partners". I know as I have been there and it was one of the key reasons (even back to the PowerStation days of involvement with my car and more recently with Tracktive Solutions), that in my experience it pays to have the engine spec'er and builder, also do the mapping. The mapper knows exactly what he is dealing with and the builder knows exactly how the engine will be mapped. All imo obviously. But as you say, clear communication and willingness to work together with separate parties is key.

Simon,
Out of interest, did you keep the wastegate shut to see what the turbo/engine would do without any boost control?

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

1bar and I think it was 358bhp

Alan Jeffery

Couldn't agree more! it's why I worked my fingers to the bone to have everything under one roof at this end. As much as possible we are entirely responsible for every aspect of every build, which is as it should be.
We're confident enough in the principles involved to be working closely with Iain very soon on an 08 2.5 Hatch build using the twin scroll turbo.

Lateral Performance

iTrader: (20)

I don't understand the point.

Rarely is the "engine spec'er/engine builder" ever the person to map the car, and I very much doubt that the engine "spec'er" is normally the person to actually build the engine.

These type of projects are always undertaken by several people, even if they work within the same company, and it's always about communication between the people involved !

Having everything done under one roof may be convenient for a company, but in itself, is no better than the weakest link, if there is one !


Mark.

Alan Jeffery

Well, I don't know how anybody else's business works, but as the managing director I oversee everything. Martyn and I are in constant contact. Everybody here is singing from the same hymn sheet. My newest staff member has been with us for seven years, how much continuity do you want?
If there's a problem it's everybody's problem.
Contrast that with the effect of using "box shifters" mates rates and road mapping when it's inappropriate, and the answer is obvious.

For clarity, I'm not referring to the case in question! I've no interest in who is doing what. I'm referring to the general principle contained in Shaun's post.

Fai17

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the very interesting read this morning guys...

No doubt the one stop shop will be the best for the customer but will it be better than going to seperate outlet is debatable.

Got to agree with Mark....the mapper is very unlikely going to be your engine builder but if the two can communicate to each other then the results should be there for the taking!

Alan Jeffery

One common issue we do hear of frequently is where problems are spotted when mapping that require fixing first, then it's a right faff if you don't have the facility to deal with it right away. Boost control, sensor failures, air leaks, that sort of thing.
Apart from that, we can call on the expertise involved for whatever's going on immediately, right away, without any 'phoning, emailing or waiting for a man to arrive.
Honestly, I'm sure in most cases that people who make a living out of just doing parts of it are quite happy, they certainly have less to worry about!

T20Driver

iTrader: (3)

Can I suggest we now go no further with this current conversation and let the thread get back to its main theme ...

Alan Jeffery

As I said in my first post on this thread, we are going with a build on a 2.5 Hatch, using a twin scroll turbo, hence my interest in the results of this one.
If I didn't think it was going to do the job, we wouldn't be going there. On paper at least, it looks very capable.
We will be doing it all in house, with much direct feedback to Iain.

Jolly Green Monster

iTrader: (4)

Alan,
The engine builder, the engine fitter, the fmic, injector, turbo fitter, the guy that services the car, the owner of the business, the dyno operator, the owner of the dyno dynamics dyno, the driver for the road mapping after dyno mapping all the same person.
The running in map, the map on oe turbo, the map on new turbo the same person.
We have a good working relationship and built and mapped a large number of cars together.
Except for the supply of the parts for this last round of mods it was in house and all under one roof.
Simon

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Alan Jeffery

Hi Simon

If you'd read what I said, it was in general terms, and in response to the perfectly sensible comments from Shaun, who has good reason to say what he said. I heard from someone yesterday who has fallen foul big style of the kind of fractured service he was on about, which is why I pitched in.

I also said "I'm not referring to the case in question"

It isn't like you to be touchy, it must have been a tough week!

Shaun

It amazes me how such a comment which was imo, get's blown out of all proportion, compounded by what people have "heard". Unless it has come from my own lips, then take it as utter bull****.

My comments were purely about the engine build / mapping process and is based on experience. I am not suggesting I have ever "fallen foul big style" by working with many companies.... I am just highlighting that model inherently increases "risk". "Risk" can be absolutely acceptable, as long as it is managed.... but if you have an option of using the same person, equally capable of providing both the engine and mapping, then certain "risk" can be mitigated. I have known plenty of people that have been in the position, where one party has blamed the other, openly or behind closed doors. It happens, but fortunatley I have never been in that unfortunate position myself. Although I appreciate that does not do the rumour mill any good.

Anyway.... back on topic.

Tim,
As I have said, Good Luck and I am sure Iain will provide the answers you are looking for.

TimH

iTrader: (11)

Thanks Shaun, and I absolutely know Iain will get this sorted.

The car will be recovered to there (glad I renewed the AA membership last week ), hopefully on Tuesday, and Iain will keep it until the problem's sorted or, at the very least, understood!

Shaun

Tim,
You can't say fairer than that from a performance parts developer, willing to take the whole car to investigate! Finding companies that don't wash their hands of a situation and go beyond to investigate and hopefully resolve is rare. Fingers crossed the remedy is easily found.

Alan Jeffery

Shaun. I was talking about someone else. He's blown up four engines so far by hawking his business all over the Scooby world. Nobody gave a monkeys as it was always somebody else's fault. I was only agreeing with you, and it was you who took off at a tangent..