I think the point is that the climates models have (at least in the minds of the modellers) statistically proven the relationship between CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere and global temps. However I agree with you that these types of models are notoriously poor at accurately predicting the future...why because things change, things like the El Nino effect and solar activity which both have a significant impact on our climate too. What they can do very well though is establish and measure causality.
I hear a lot of people going on about how global temps havent increased recently, well the trend is still upwards, and this inspite of no solar activity and a strong El Nino effect, both of which should have a significant cooling effect, so why are we not seeing a massive reduction in global temps........?

 

So 2008 was a slip-up, but 2009 onwards it all gets going again:
Met Office: Pacific continues to influence climate

I guess we'll see...

 

The biggest issue facing our planet is the unfettered growth in the human population. Whether the (man-made) CO2 is causing global warming or not doesn't really matter - if not that then the massive growth in population will lead to a damaging collapse at some point caused by something else.

Most likely IMO will be running out of resources / food etc - the planet passed it's sustainable biocapacity back in the 90s at some point apparently. Whether that's accurate also doesn't matter - growth in the population from 6Bn today to 9Bn in the 2040s means we're all doomed.

Time to go for a blast in the P1 me thinks

 

Well some man at the Beeb Whatever Centre said tonight that the lowest ever recorded temperature in the UK was in Scotland-cestershire in December 1995!

Then again, the highest was in 2003 - what a difference a few years and a lot of CO2 makes

AGW/MMGW/Government Invented Climate Charge is all about power and money and control

mb

 

Why are you talking about the weather, when this thread is about the climate????

 

EH!!??

Definition of climate (noun)
form plural: climates
weather conditions; surrounding conditions; atmosphere; setting

 

Classic

 

The Green thing can't come to an end now?!

Hasn't Gordon Brown announced he is going to create 100,000 'Green jobs' or something to save the economy.

As for my thoughts,I wish we could have one long uninterrupted summer so I can get a full cricket season in instead of watching rain from the pavillion

 

My point was, lets stop pointing out that it's chilly outside as some kind of evidence that global warming isn't real, as if the word 'global' isn't important.

 

That's a very broad statement, have you anything to back that up?

Geezer

 

Quote:
"My point was, lets stop pointing out that it's chilly outside as some kind of evidence that global warming isn't real, as if the word 'global' isn't important."


The trouble is, a lot of you MMGW types keep saying "All I know is we don't get cold winters like we used to" etc. etc.

Well, look outside, we have a cold winter, it's snowing like it used to!

 

 

Can i also say that i'm glad to hear "global" stops at Land's End, Lizard Point, Lowestoft, Dunnett Head and Ardamurchan

 

This is funny because.........?

 

Not sure I like being described as 'one of those types', but anyway moving on you didn't answer Telboy question, which is ironic given the fuss you made about him not answering you.

 

I wasn't aware Telboy had asked me a question, what was it?

 

Global warming is a scam, more and more scientific data points towards a global cooling trend, a natural cycle the earth is due to go through round about now.

It's interesting to see how anyone with an apposing view to the global warming hysteria is immediately shot down:

What is REALLY happening?: Should we worry about global cooling instead?

 

I dont care either way, as long as there is enough ice for Ice Road Truckers, then I am happy

 

'Nobody knows. Not 100%. If only they did. So while the jury is out, what's the upside in dissing the whole thing and potentially leaving it all to the next generations?'

 

I think this post makes a very good point. I check sunspots every day, this is a time when they should be building up again after the end of the last 11 year cycle, but it is just not happening. There have been no significant numbers of sunspots for a long time now. We could well be entering another "Maunder Minimum". We are being conned about GBW for no good reason I think-except for the convenience of the authorities.

I agree that there have been climate changes over the years but the impression is that they are going full circle again.

Les

 

How many green taxes are people being subjected to - out of interest?

What is "bad" about having to recycle?
What is wrong with trying to reduce carbon emissions?
What is wrong with trying to promote greener practises?

Regardless of whether GW is true or not ( and it never ceases to amaze me just how many of you are accredited climate experts) there can only be benefits to promoting a cleaner less wasteful society.

 

But doesn't the Sunspot issue actually make the AGW arguement stronger. If we've had little sunspot activity over the past few years and a strong El Nino effect, then why is the planet still so warm??

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul3446
I wasn't aware Telboy had asked me a question, what was it?

'Nobody knows. Not 100%. If only they did. So while the jury is out, what's the upside in dissing the whole thing and potentially leaving it all to the next generations?'


Sorry, I thought that was a rhetorical question! Why is that anyone who disagrees with MMGW is "dissing it"? It seems like the people who don't believe in it are the ones who can look at the facts and think for themselves. The people who agree with it, blindly believe what they read in the media and believe the predictions of people who are just guessing. I like the post which quoted the met office from September saying we are heading for a mild winter! It is pure guesswork, but people are constantly bombarded by this warming message and the more you hear it, the more you believe.

So in response to the question, we are not dissing it out of hand, we are looking at the facts and drawing our own conclusions from these facts.

 

Oh my God.

 

Nothing, but that has nothing to do with the current debate.

It causes huge economic strain, and there is still no clear evidence that having more CO2 in the atmosphere is a bad thing. Obviously the jury is out on that one, but the ramifications for Western civilisation remain the same.

Nothing, but the current regime seems to be based on punitive measures, not encouraging people to be greener.

That's very true, but that's not what the debate is about really.

Geezer

 

LOL I don't 'blindly believe' ANYTHING and I'd love to hear your alternative theory on why the world has heated up over the few decades. Given that you have all apparently have all the facts to hand.


I strongly suggest that you are the blindly choosing to believe what best suits you and your own lifestyle.

 

Quote:
"How many green taxes are people being subjected to - out of interest?

What is "bad" about having to recycle?
What is wrong with trying to reduce carbon emissions?
What is wrong with trying to promote greener practises?"


The problem is the hypocrisy though Pete. For example all this talk about being green and then approving a whole load of new runways at airports.

Taxing motorists to the hilt and ignoring aviation fuel.

Big rises in rail fares when they are supposedly encouraging people off the road.

I'm all for greener practises in general, but it is the way that every story is given a MMGW angle to justify another tax rise that gets me.

Happy new year by the way!

 

Quote:
"LOL I don't 'blindly believe' ANYTHING and I'd love to hear your alternative theory on why the world has heated up over the few decades."

Why was the hottest year on record 1998 then? Why are we in the middle of the coldest spell for a long time? If temperature was linked to manmade CO2 there would be a constant increasing of the temperature. There are just too many anomalies in the weather for me to accept MMGW.

I'm not a climatologist, so I don't pretend I know why things have been slightly warmer recently. It could be sunspots, it could be the earth going through a natural cycle, it could be MMGW, but I don't think so, given the facts.

 

2005 was the hottest year NOT 1998, given that you keep telling me you look at the facts, I could conclude that you need to start looking at some accurate ones.

 

World faces hottest year ever, as El Niņo combines with global warming - Climate Change, Environment - The Independent

Written on 01/01/2007 An extract:

Combined, they are set to bring extreme conditions across the globe and make 2007 warmer than 1998, the hottest year on record. It is likely temperatures will also exceed 2006, which was declared in December the hottest in Britain since 1659 and the sixth warmest in global records.