Matteeboy

Diesel is 3p per litre more here...

It doesn't make sense financially I reckon but I got a soot chucker for the torque and decent range between fuel stops.

I did look long and hard at the 335i though. Well the one that was available - very rare in estate form it seems.

But the savings over a petrol are pretty tiny (if any) as shown above.

Are you sure you want a Qashqui Tim? I hired one a while back and wasn't impressed. The handling was awful, it drank a lot of fuel and the brakes were poor. I'd much sooner have a RAV, Grand Vitara or a Freelander. The mk4 Golf isn't the last word in handling but it's a Caterham compared to a Quashqui.

_Tim_

Well you (and I) bought used, so the waters are much muddier trying to compare diesel to petrol as the price you pay will be varied by spec as much as anything else.

And of course nobody gets the combined figure all (any?!) of the time. But it's an interesting comparison none the less I think.

My wife wants one, which is about all the convincing I need. The 1.6 petrol claims low 40s - our Anniversary GTi golf does mid 40s and I don't really care what the handling is like is between our house, our Son's nursery and her workplace.

Matteeboy

Not trying to dismiss it for the sake of it - I just prefer other models. I also found the boot very small and the plastics rather - plastic. I had to swerve to avoid some lunatic on the M4 and was a little shocked how out of shape it got. Have you tried the competition? X Trail is a better bet too IMO (hired one of these too and was quite impressed).

What do you get from your 535d out of interest? Is it pre or post ED? I get low 30s in mine but they forgot the build a motorway down here so it's mostly country lane stuff.

I think the argument of diesel being a cheaper option is mostly gone - yes tax and insurance are lower but it still doesn't offset the higher price of the black stuff. Easy to drive quickly though.

_Tim_

No we've not tried anything yet, even the Nissan, as it's not likely to get changed until later in the year. It's just a car which keeps cropping up on her "I like that one" list. Our local Nissan dealer is very good from our experiences with the 350Z we had before the 5er, which always helps.

Ours is October 2004, so pre LCI. The best I've had on a long run solo with no luggage etc was 40-41, typically with mixed driving it does 32-34.

Matteeboy

Similar to ours then (late 2006 so also pre LCI and ED).

Do try the X-Trail. I assumed the Qashqui would be good (after liking the X Trail and loving the 350Z I tried) but it was pretty rolly and rubbery. I might suit your needs fine but that body control was downright dangerous.

Dream Weaver

When buying used or nearly new that rule about driving x thousand miles to break even doesn't always work.

When we bought our Civic Diesel it was 6 months old, 5k miles, was £18,500 new and we got it for £15,500.

The equivalent petrol was the 1.8 VTEC which has the same power but half the torque and it cost the same £15,500 to buy.

So in that case, both cars cost the same, but in the diesel we bought it costs £80 a month to fill up, and would have cost almost double that in the petrol. So we probably save £40 a month in fuel having the diesel when you take servicing into account.

It's also much nicer when doing a long journey to not have to put so much fuel in. If I took my ST to the inlaws in Kent it would cost £200 to get there and back!! Civic only costs us £50 return.

austinwrx

there is the argument though that a diesel car has far higher residuals than a petrol one. the engine is also likely to be more reliable too.

Might be me, but I've found things like exhausts last much longer on oil burners than petrol cars.

Matteeboy

Austin - good point. And anyone try and sell a petrol 4x4 against a diesel one - it just will not work!

Anyone with a pokey diesel - do you find the lack of drama rather odd? All my quick cars (well quickish anyway!) that have been petrol "tick" and creak for a while then a fan kicked in for ages after a fast run - the diesel is silent - not even a fan. This suggests that despite the mighty torque, things are quite "relaxed" under the bonnet even if the car is looned along a road (often is).

I guess the drivetrain is under a fair bit of stress but then that's pretty rock solid too (ZF 6 speed auto)?

Still think diesels in some cars are just wrong though - a diesel TT? WTF?!

hodgy0_2

colleague at work did exactly this on an Audi S3 and got a stonking discount -- he had been looking at the car for ages and new the end of quarter was coming up

and the point is - it is not just the salesman who has to hit individual targets but also the dealership -- who will almost give a car away at cost to reach the quarterly manufacturers target -- to get the Bonus

rb5_336

Well things got very interesting. Looks like I timed my order wel las I ended up being quoted 19% off a new well spec'ed 123d. But ended up ordering a well spec'ed 135 with 17% discount. Sweet!

Matteeboy

Nice one rb5 - this 135s are beasts!

Blimey - that's the fifth (or more) recent BMW convert on here!

Jimpreza

I'd love to afford to be the 6th ....... I want a 335i.

Matteeboy

Dream Weaver is not far off. Who's next?

Scoobynet six pot turbo BMW meet at some stage (330d, 335d, 335i, 135i, 535d and a few more!)?!

zip106

Well I was almost next, but it would have been BMW V8 so I wouldn't have been allowed into your club.

Matteeboy

Errmm - methinks an M3 would be allowed in. You could always get is supercharged by G Power - then it'd be forced induction - that would do nicely

Or were you thinking of something with the 50i engine?

zip106

Yeah, it would have been an M3, but I didn't like it.
To heavy and cumbersome compared to mine, and also a little (dare I say it?) bland....

And I convinced myself I didn't need a 3rd practical car.
So I've still got the 3rd impractical car

Matteeboy

The M3 is a bit low on torque compared to yours I guess? And as you say, pretty heavy.

Can't help loving the look of a metallic grey E92 M3 though...

zip106

Torque was a bit of a problem to be honest. Mine's got about 610Nm (that's standard, and the X50's make about 25bhp more than the booked figures so torque is also higher) and the BM seemed well short.

When I say heavy - mine's about 1400kg but 4wd so I can forgive it's lardiness, I mean it just felt too cumbersome and sluggish.

Not only that but the interior was all black - far too sombre.
The exterior was ok - Interlagos blue.

Devildog

Diesels are more thermally efficient IIRC, so they won't generally run as hot. They also generally have more sound insulation to keep the noise levels down.

Matteeboy

Zip - well 450ish lbs/ft compared to 295 in a car that's 250kg heavier is definitely going to make it feel a bit gutless. I used to be a but anti turbo (lag, reliability, etc) but now they have got much better it's hard to resist the torque a decent turbo engine (petrol or diesel) flings out. These high revving V8s in the M3 and B7 RS4 are amazing achievements but they do both lack proper supercar torque even in the bhp is a suspiciously matching 414 (ahem - 380 for the RS4 in reality..!). A mapped and slightly modded 335i will outdrag an M3 and even a mapped 335d is pretty much neck and neck thanks to the torque advantage, although an M3 chassis is more tuned to proper "track" type driving.

DD - I did hear something along those lines a while back. I'm sure they are well insulated but mine is literally silent when I stop! Weird!

zip106

Blimey Matt, I didn't realise the M3 was that much fatter or that it only had 295 lbs/ft of torque.
No wonder it felt sluggish!

To be honest a mapped 335i would appeal to me more than an M3 now - sleeper looks and all that (be nice if you could do away with the twin pipes, too).

Re your question about noise - I'd noticed recently, well, since having the petrol Porsche (other cars are diesel) that it ticks and clicks after a drive yet the other two dervs don't.

Matteeboy

Yep - the M3 and 335i have matching torque but several tuners can easily map a 335i to well over 400bhp and 400lbs/ft. The M3 is much harder to tune unless you supercharge it (G Power do a 620ish bhp conversion!!). With the 335d, you can map it to 350bhp and 520lbs/ft but that's about it. TBH I think even that's pushing it (the torque) for the chassis.

Agree about stealth - not sure if anyone has removed the twin pipes but it would be funny to do so.

There is a black 318d Touring down the road - apart from being slightly higher (ours is lowered slightly) and missing the twin pipes and all chrome grille (all 6 pots have this - four pots have black vertical bits) and no sunroof, it looks almost identical to ours - even the wheels are the same.

I rather like that...far cooler (IMO) than an M Sported 318d on 19s and fat rubber.