And it pisses me off to read comments by non teachers who think they know exactly what it's like being one!

 

Pete, you are probably just trolling again and I am kicking myself for biting but you obviously are getting your wires crossed in your old age.

1) The 'annual march' up the pay scale is only for the first five years. We then have to apply to move up another three points (which doesn't always happen) then THAT'S IT. Regardless of your age and how good you are the salary tops out currently at £34,281. You are always making out that you earn **** loads so surely you can appreciate that this isn't a great salary to be stuck on!

2) I wish I was on £35,000! Again, your post is bollocks.

3) The teaching assistant often just has to sit with the kids they do not 'teach the hardest pupils' they are not even qualified to do this! They help them with the spellings, effectively just making sure they follow the teacher's instructions. They do no planning or marking, have very little responsibility in the classroom and are often the first to leave so why should they be earning a comparative salary?

Just stick to pixels eh? At least you seem to know a bit about them!

 

If teachers are that hard up, how come they can afford Imprezas?

Striking is a complete waste of time. Doesn't affect the government at all. You honestly think that by striking they will panic that we won't vote for them again and give teachers more money.

Not a hope. They will ignore the problem and those who are most affected by this action ie parents will lose out yet again on top of all the other things that have happened since this budget.

Royally typical of this country. Punish those easiest to punish and completely fail to solve the problem. Good job

If I was financially independent and it wasn't illegal not sending your children to school I'd do it myself. Stuff relying on anyone else, if they grow up dim witted morons I only have myself to blame.

 

I for one have not pretended or hinted or implied that i know what it is like, It appears that as soon as anything other than complete and utter support is muted then this high handed you don't know what it is like so just go away with your uninformed ideas rhetoric comes to the fore.

Hardfly conducive for a discussion, if my child came back with this 'attitude' then i would have words.

Calm down, if things are that bad, if things are getting you down then perhaps it is time to retrain and or look at other roles careers.

A constructive and open discussion would be what i would have expected.

still my points go unanswered other than just being passed off, nothing to back that up.

 

I agree totally which is why I am going against the wish of my union and working on Thursday.

 

What's having words with your child got to do with my comment?

I have tried having an open discussion with people on here about teaching in the past and again I remember you posting on that thread too, it got us nowhere. The general impression on here is that we do very little work and are demanding a high salary for it, that uneducated impression winds me up. At the end of the day no one knows what goes into teaching if you don't teach so I don't appreciate comments from non teachers saying how easy our job is!

Also, what do you want me to 'back up'?

 

Paul: you've asked the question a few times, I'll try and answer.

Any industrial action HAS to be SEEN to be any good. In order to be seen, it needs to get into the media spotlight. How much media coverage would a factory get if it's workers went on strike while the factory was closed for summer break? (yes, I know many don't close, but some still do).

Unfortunately, when teachers strike, they inconvenience people. Rather than blame the teachers, the parents should write to their MPs demanding better conditions for teachers. It's the government at fault, NOT the teachers. By and large, teachers do a BLOODY good job against all the odds, (stroppy kids out of control, even stroppier parents, government interference, LEA interference, governing body know-nothing interference, lack of funding, and poor image created by a spin-crazy government.)

Scottish teachers have it FAR better than their English counterparts, (now THERE'S a change).

This is because, in the 80's, they put a union levy on ALL teachers, then withdrew those teachers in key constituencies, and paid them out of the levy. They refused to go back until the government agreed a deal, which it swiftly did

However, when approached to do the same to the Tories in 1988, and to Labour over the last years, English unions have refused, not wanting to be seen to be political.

So..........no strikes for 25 years, but now they've been pushed too far for too long? And we want to point the finger at them for striking? I don't think so. Should they not have the right to strike? The police haven't, and look at the God-awful mess THEY are in!

Alcazar

 

re child comments
It was a comparison, an example, if you do not understands the i will explain. If my eldest came back with the same negative i know best attitude then we would have gentle words about it. She is young and it would no be a big deal but i would want her to understand and not have that sort of negative attitude - io hpe that clarifies things for you.

Other discussions
Yes, ok and i have contributed and funnily enough the comments ended up negative and tbh quite childish - from some people, i do not with to use the words sides as it is not about us and them and should not be seen in that way.

The General impression as you put it is how you interpret it, you need to sort the wheat from the chaff and unhelpful/trolling posts aimed at teachers and do not tar all other non teachers with the same brush as you you do not like it much either

Re my comments.

The strike not being during holidays - not addressed other than brushed off.

Why, do you really believe no one would back it.

No one would attend a march or rally - not all parents are 'helicopters' or do not care.

Why is it better during term time - i it to disrupt parents trying to earn a living - how does that help.

why risk alienating/loosing support from parents because as you say we do not and cannot understand.

I am not looking for an argument - you should be able to work that out from my approach and style - i am looking to engage and discuss - like adults

 

Thank you for addressing this

 

Paul, we obviously have very different views on this subject and being a teacher myself I honestly feel in a better position than you to comment on what is involved in my job. Please stop trying to talk to me like a child. It is pathetic and in my opinion devalues your comments even more.

Would you strike after office hours? Would that realistically be the best time get yourself heard? Would it really make your boss sit up and say 'I can't have him doing that again in his spare time, I better consider his point!' Get real!

 

I do not come here looking for a fight or to trade insults. I have tried to enter into a honest and open debate - thats all.

I have no idea what sort of teacher or person you are - although all i seem to see is your negativity and a dismissive and defensive attitude.

If you do not want to get treated like a child then please do not act like one, simple. Your emoticons scratching its head and the other laughing at my comments are why i felt you required that level of response. If you do not like it then act like a grown up.

Striking during office hours - i just do not get it. I thought you had work to do during the hols, maybe not al of the time off but some of it wouldn't it be better to interrupt that work and send a message that way.

The timing is important, but is it better to risk alienating support.

Are you saying you would not bother marching/protesting on a weekend for instance if that would have equal or more impact - many protest/protesters do or would that not fit in with your plans?

I you think it would have less of an impact then i just do not believe you for reason i have already stated, i find that more of an excuse TBH

 

Don't get personal Paul.

Marching at the weekend wouldn't get the headlines. It might get two minutes coverage before the football results but no more, that's not quite the effect we are after.

If you don't get it then we can leave it at that. Perhaps next time, don't voice such a strong opinion over things you don't get and don't get personal when people who do get it disagree with you.

Over and out.

 

Clever use of editing.

 

Then please do not laugh off my comments, the response was warranted and quite apt.

I am not interested in a slanging match so i suggest you heed your own (^above^)comment in future.

So, it appears that you are saying is to get this heard and more coverage and editorial then putting out decent working parents and them having to take time off (if they can) or make other arrangements at cost in a lot of cases it the way to go.

I find that cynical and down right wrong.

Any protest is what you make of it. I would imagine 5-20K teachers marching through London/Birmingham/Manchester/City/Town on a Saturday or a school holiday would attract a fair but of publicity, support and sympathy for the cause.

It really is how and what you make of it. and not just going for the easy target/soft option!

Whilst you may not like it - it is actually how 'it' works in real life.

 

Well please heed your own too.

This is the best way to get heard, I don't support it though either which is why I am not striking (although this negative attitude towards us is tempting me to change my mind! ) I honestly think if it was at the weekend most parents wouldn't even realise this was happening!

Anyway, let's all be friends eh?

 

If you must know i edited it before your post as it would have come across wrong and not as intended, at work so do not have all the time i would have liked to dedicate - according to my boss anyway

My writing style is often abrupt and a bit staccato like, so better to edit it to the real meaning and no more than that

 

I know when you edited it, I read your first attempt and it did come across as being somewhat an attack on me, hence my first reply.

 

FWIW - I have a great deal of respect for you sticking up for your beliefs over this rather than just going along and striking

I do believe that people will have sympathy (in a good way) and support if this was a coordinated protest at a weekend or during half term (ideally a day when all teachers would be at school or at home working if you see what i mean) time - people would need to understand why of course, most would understand, support and buy into it.

Gov't (scum that they are) will spin the protest and play on the parents and people being put out and the 'bad' and uncaring teachers - some will stick and some will remember next time.

 

My daughters teacher is striking my sons isn't, he's only seven. How am I going to explain that his big sister gets a day out trucking with Dad whilst he has to go to school and wonder why half the kids he plays football with aren't there? Also if I keep him off as well will the school fine me for unauthorised absence

 

Just a thought...

Perhaps teachers don't get paid loads.
Perhaps they have to teach some very unruly and violent kids.

BUT, did anyone force them to become teachers?

Every week at my daughters school there's at least 1 if not 2 teachers off sick. (small village primary school with about 10 kids to a class, hardly stress inducing).

If I have ANY time off, be it sick or for holidays, I don't get a bean from anyone.


And do you really think the Government will actually listen to what the teachers want.

 

Now you are splitting hairs, in between me posting and editing it you must have read it - ******* teachers got nothin' better to do...

Yes, It did appear to be personal which is why i changed it ASAP ias that was not what i meant - i changed it as quickly as i could.


Yes we can be friends and should be, as we are probably not too far apart in views just on how to get there - and life is sadly too sort.

 

Getting back to the original question, yes ours are on strike, well not my daughters class year though, just years 3 and 4, all the other kids are at school unless in those 2 years

 

Worked out nice for me....

Thursday - strike no one in ! So working 12 till 4 PM.
Friday - training day everyone out by 3 PM.
Monday - another !

If TA's are so badly done to why do they act like the own the place ?
All the SMT and teachers know me by my first name, TA's think I'm called "excuse me..."

I drive a mini-bus, repair the endless vandalism damage, and maintain the buildings essential services..... for twice the money they are on, and there's OT on top for me.
Plus week long trips to the North Yorkshire Moors several times a year with free food and board, and some MTB-ing.

DunxC

P.S.L. they strike in term time 'cos no-one would give a rats if they did it in their holidays

 

I'm not a teacher, I would never do such a thankless averagely paid and stressfuly job.

I earn more than my Mrs who is a deputy and I do far less hours, she is working now on some kids version of the St George/Dragon story, I am just messing on the web after finishing at 3 today and going for a bike ride.

She works mega hours, 7am to 6pm every day, then after we put the lad to bed she works til 11pm ish. She is very consciensus, way more than me though so she could be the exception.

I dont really know what you and Paul mean when you go on about teacher training days, she works in primary and never leaves for training, if she does then the head teaches for her

 

If anyone in Education needs money it is the Governors who give up hours of their time each week - FOR FREE!!

Flaps - the rise up the payscale is automatic - as is the rise over the threshold ...... it effectively amounts to 8 years of TWO pay rises, up to £35,121.

Then, become an excellent Teacher and get £37,672 - £48,437.

Add to the above a TLR Payment of £11,841 for 'looking after the noticeboard' and if you are a Teacher on less than £47,000 then there is something wrong somewhere.

Jump on the Leadership Spine and the world is at your feet money wise ...... it's a gravytrain and this year the brakes have been applied gently - tough luck - it's about time Teachers conditions were hauled into the real world where the reward for doing a great job is that you get to work for another year!!

Pay scales - teachers in maintained schools

 

Add to the above a TLR Payment of £11,841 for 'looking after the noticeboard'


PSL, you haven't got a funking clue, end of.

 

Really??

I know and I'm telling it as I have seen it ...... I admit that the TLR Payments have now tightened up the allowance fiasco as it was - but, we ALL know that the previous allowances were allocated for some quite bizarre 'extra duties' and looking after the NoticeBoard WAS ONE!!

It's STILL a gravy train and Teachers would do very well to dip their heads below the parapet in case the general public finds out how well they really do.

 

I dont usually bite with PSL, but thats nonsense, any rise over the threshold can only be done a certain amount of times, and it has to be sanctioned by the head so it is in no way automatic.

I find it odd that society are complaining and begrudging the people who educate their children a pay rise in line with inflation (so avoiding a pay cut in essence), but as a nation we are more than happy to pay our taxes to support the ******* that cant be arsed working

Teaching should be seen as the major profession it is and should get more respect, same could be said about the Police force.

If we let teaching careers slip, and start to undervalue people who teach then what sort of future will our children have? If the career isn't worth going into we will only get the dross doing the job, and I myself would prefer to pay them a bit more and get the best teachers we can in the job.

As for governors, in my own experience they are just a bunch of jumped up power hungry retirees that like to stick their nose in Oh wait your a governor aren't your PSL

 

I don't feel qualified to comment on the teachers' payscale, so I won't. I do however think that it must be a pretty soul destroying job having to cope with recalcitrant yobbish children who have no wish to learn anything and want only to disrupt the classes and against whom the teachers have no significant method of discipline and whose chavvy parents will support them come what may!

Not my idea of a rewarding job!

Les

 

Pete, like I said earlier, stick to commenting on faulty televisions, you appear to know what the situation is with them (assuming you didn't make the whole thread up which is something I wouldn't put past you!).

You have obviously based your comments on a five minute search on the Internet and you clearly don't understand how it works:

• You have to apply for threshold and I know of some teachers that haven't been granted it.
• The 'excellent teacher' scale is unheard of (so are 'AST's' in many schools), I know of no one who has either.
• TLR's are hard to come by, our department has two but plenty more staff. One has gone to the second in department, the other to the person who controls KS3. Neither of these are anywhere near the top of the TLR scale either.