Witor

Moving slightly away from the EVO side of things:

Top-Gear:

"The Stig's verdict is clear. He'd take the Civic home. And on balance, so would many of us. Despite a shortfall in poke, there's a strong argument that it provides the most accomplished and accessible mix of involvement on the one hand and cosseting on the other. It looks great, sounds great, feels focused and capable, yet isn't going to wear you down after a couple of months of cop-bating ownership."

Like the previous car...seems to be a marmite thing all over again...

Blueblaster

Ok, the Leon was 17 grand, but that is before essential options. The Golf was over £23k, the Focus £22k, Megane and Astra £21k. But, of course, in the wonderful world of Scoobynet money doesn't matter. Although it is impossible to ever know for sure, I would bet good money that the majority of members of this site have few if any savings, no pension, credit card debts and bank loans. So, yes, you're right most people could afford to get their hands on one by one means or another.

It also doesn't matter how good John Barker is at writing - whether a car understeers or oversteers is irrelevant as the vast majority of the population doesn't know what that means anyway. I am not suggesting the road tests should be dumbed down to What Car? levels of mundaneness, but it would be nice if slightly more emphasis was placed on the overall ownership proposition rather than on-limit handling characteristics and lap times.

I have admitted that the new CTR is not as good as the old one. However, your quote about the Renault being the best has to be taken in context. The minute you drive the car off the forecourt it will lose thousands - far more than the others. If you buy an import to save money then you have a load of hassle come resale time. And then it is still a Renault. You may say you would seriously consider a Megane, but you know you wouldn't buy one. The true cost of owning one when you add in the depreciation means you could get something far more special.

Some of the responses to this thread, which is now miles off topic, are so symptomatic of the financial mess that this country is getting itself into. Millions of people are going to reach 65, decide they want to retire, look at the numbers and then realise they are going to have to work til they die. And it is websites like this where people make thoughtless comments about how you only live once and should spend every penny while you're young enough to enjoy it, that fuel the spend, spend, spend culture.

The average wage in this country is somewhere between £20k-25k. £17k is therefore a shed load of money to spend on a car. According to EVO's content the "Thrill of Driving" is only available to the wealthy. B*ll*cks is it. The mag would be more interesting, more relevant and more helpful if it gave up just one supercar article each month and replaced it with one on the Thrill of Affordable Driving.

Blueblaster sits back and waits for the tirade of abuse from the over-geared masses.

Matteeboy

Blueblaster - Well said (from a person with a sensible car and some savings in the bank!)!

I've done the expensive new car thing (well relatively so if £24k is considered expensive) and although it was great having a semi flashy car that went well, it cost me about twice (if not more) the amount that my "not much slower and more reliable" Astra does.
Now I could go out and double that costs again quite easily (and take a chunk out of the savings) for a very small gain in performance, but I don't want to.
I'd rather gain 5% from it sitting in the bank.

davyboy

Mattee...I do find it amusing that you like to comment on cars and drive an Astra diesel.

Whatever you say, we all know you drive an Astra Diesel...apparantly by choice, it doesn't help when you tell us how great it is either.

Blueblaster

Leading candidate for stupid comment of the day.

davyboy

Have another candidate then.....

Poke it up your pipe

Matteeboy

Davyboy - Just the sort of person we were having a go at.
Hook line and sinker.
I'm sure some of here drive a ***stand back in shock*** even LESS "sporty" car than a 150PS Astra yet are still entitled to an opinion you complete TOOL.

Thre Lotus test driver I went out in a 111R with drives a diesel Focus Estate. Take it he's got no opinion either?

What a turd you are.

Blueblaster

Thanks, I'll file it along with your other 9,817 postings. His last car was an R32. If he was still driving that and had not been forced to change due to vandalism would he have been more or less qualified to comment on motoring matters? If you can't think of anything constructive to say then don't try and make clever comments to make yourself look big. You just look sad and pathetic.

davyboy

LOL you guys crack me up.

Apparantly I have been wound up, yet it's pretty clear who is getting stressed How cheap to resort to name calling. In your words...argument lost

I know full well about Matts "cars" and "finance" as does anyone else who reads SN.

Ah well, you're giving me something to do for an hour anyway!

Blueblaster

Ok, smarty pants. You implied he shouldn't comment on cars because he drives an Astra diesel. As I said before, his last car was an R32. Was he more or less qualified to comment when he drove the Golf than the Astra? Please explain why. No need for clever comments. Just answer the question, please.

davyboy

He can comment on what he likes.....I really don't care.

It just makes me laugh (and I haven't read the whole of this thread) that I keep seeing mention (on this thread and others) of this blasted Astra Diesel

Matteeboy

Sorry Davy but it was relevant to the post and in agreement with Blueblaster.

Your "stalking" of me is really quite unnerving.

Sorry to bring you down but I'm happily married...!

davyboy

Rather than stalking I see it as being able to read and digest information. But when I keep reading it, and keep reading it again, it kind of sicks in my mind.

Matteeboy

Well you seem to be alone on that one weirdo.

Was that you I saw trotting past the house earlier disguised as a fox?

Very cunning our Davyboy.

Anyway, you've made an **** of yourself so it times to give up and put it down to experience.

davyboy

Being called a Turd, Tool and Weirdo in one thread.....

super6four

Blueblaster, hope you don't mind me asking, but have you driven the FN2 yet?

Blueblaster

I own a 2.2 diesel version, but have not driven the Type-R. My comments are based on spending 50,000 miles in the old CTR and owning the new model with a different engine.

super6four

I see. It was just your comment of course about the new CTR not being as good as the old one (presuming you ment the EP of course ). I would have thought you would have to have driven the FN2 to really be able to state that for sure?

I have myself an EP3 (85k). It has been through many a configuration, from Supercharged, and now back to stage 2 tuned N/A. I have driven the Diesel Fk as well. Though admitedly only a few times.

However I have, as mentioned in an earlier post a few pages back, have driven the new CTR on a few occasions both on road and track, back to back with my own car. And though i have to confess was going not expecting too much. I found it to be a fair bit better, scratch that, a lot better than the EP in just about every catagory.

The fact I was able to get in the new car and drive it just as quick as my own car, is one of the things that impressed me. Also the fact that to make mine handle as I want, and go as i want I have had to make it fairly compromised, and despite still having to drive between Oxford and Bath everyday, it is a little raw to say the least.

The FN2 is just as quick (than my tuned car), even though mine is lighter than a stock EP, so the weight difference between them is a fair bit. The new car has even better steering feel, better turn in, is a little more complient, without excessive body roll than a stock EP. Mine can be a bit crashy.

So I found it not, as many who have not driven it seem to think it is, a compromise...but the best of both worlds. Even easier to use everyday for general driving, yet when you want to have a bit of fun, it is more responsive, communicative, and the new mapping (it made the K20 in the FN feel like an EP with Hondata ECU). The seats are way better too.

Yep I am still not feeling the back end, but driving it you can never see it anyway so that does not bother me, and my other car is a bug eye STi, so i am thick skinned about looks .

I am sure you are a man who knows what they like Blueblaster, I just would have thought you'd at least drive the new car before saying which was (in your opinion of course) better .

And no I do not work for Honda, just some car mag, but not a journo...an Art editor so I am not all that bad

Matteeboy

Not Chee-Chiu Lee by any chance?!

Blueblaster

I think I could have chosen a better adjective than "good". What I really mean is that the general consensus among the car mags is that it is not as good relative to the competition as the old one. Having said that, the old one had it's critics too. Based on what I know about the new model's basic design, the engine, gearbox and the rave reviews about the new seats I would buy one if I was in the market for a new hot hatch. However, I have been seduced by 500 miles for 40 quid's worth of diesel so it is unlikely that I will be returning to the world of petrol. That is, of course, unless there is a fundamental change in a road policing.

Editted to say, I take your point about driving the cars before voicing my opinion. However, it is only worth driving them if there is a chance of you actually buying them. The German cars are ridiculously overpriced, the French ones break down and are worth nothing at trade in and I find turbos mind numbingly boring (especially when they are matched with 4wd) so there would only be one choice for me. The choice becomes even easier when you discover what a great piece of design the new Civic is.

super6four

TBH Blue, I am trying to resist the urge to go to the darkside and ge a diesel myself. As my commute, whilst only being an hour is still £60 a week (not bad for a 230 bhp n/a EP) but still could be better . Though I am thinking of an Accord. But maybe something like a DC2 or an EK9 for the weekend sir

Blueblaster

Just in case you don't want to do the maths, my diesel Civic saves me £250 per month over my STI in running costs. That's £3,000 per year or a £5,000 pay rise. Give it a month or two and the old current account starts to look much healthier. Just for the record, if you are going to zoom around in the diesel and not drive for fuel economy then the Honda 2.2 does not return that great mpg compared to the VW equivalent. It is, however, super smoothe and quiet on start up and it qualifies for low road tax. FWIW I get 55mpg, mixed driving, but driving sedately.

Matteeboy

I got a diesel for the torque and the range - All very well having a 3.2 petrol car (like I did) but 250 miles per tank?! Really slows you down filling up!

About to get a tuning box too - 200bhp, 300lbs/ft - Should help the old dear go along nicely AND improves mpg even more!

Blueblaster - A small point - You don't like turbos but surely your Civic is a turbo?!
Still find it hard to get my head around a Honda with decent torque!

Blueblaster

I knew someone would say that . I am getting so fixated on mpg that I never use the turbo - 65mpg on my 30 mile commute a little while ago, although I did have to slip stream a few lorries

Matteeboy

Hmmm - I drive mine rather hard so it's usually around 40mpg.
Still better than the low 20s I used to get!

65mpg is impressive - Is the Honda unit entirely Honda designed and built?
Lots seem to be sharing units these days (my Fiat sourced unit is used by Saab and Alfa, but for some reason the Vx version has a bit more torque and the same bhp).

Blueblaster

I think it is all Honda own work. I don't think anyone else has a 2.2 diesel, although I sure someone will be quick to correct me . The Honda was never designed for performance. It was designed for low emissions and smoothness. You would no doubt be faster than me in your Astra, even if I could bring myself to go beyond 1500rpm

dpb

I quite fancy the accord diesel (tourer) if i say so myself

super6four

Well my Honda has 179 flbs of torque, not a huge amount, but not bad for a 2ltr n/a. I would not want any more in a FWD car, lest drivability and traction be overly compromised.

Blue... you make the argument more tempting. As much as i love the CTR. After all I still have my (well the wifes actually) STI for a bit of fun....hmmm

Flatcapdriver

Blueblaster, in the first instance I didn't say that disappointment with Evo's content is down to class/income envy. I pointed that accusation at Dreamweaver which I think is accurate given his continual referencing to people down south/toffs/city types etc, highlighted when he picked on Catchpole as a journalist - probably the only posh one on the whole magazine. If people have a particle problem with certain issues, then in my experience they take every opportunity to put them down and deride them with snide comments - it is particularly true of the British and one of the few things I dislike about this country apart from the weather. They also have a hard time admitting it, again borne out by experience.

There are plenty of cars featured in Evo that I have no desire to own but its still interesting to read about them and there are plenty of cars in there that I may want to buy in the future. There are also plenty of cars in the magazine that I cannot afford - I don't have an issue with that so I'm puzzled why others have problems with cars they can't afford

Taking the article in isolation, if you've read it then they explained how the cars performed on the B660 which I'd suggest is real world driving in a real world car.

Monkeybone

Anyone who pays 21k for the megane R26 needs shooting, 14,800 brand new from an online broker.