GREAT BRITAIN OR UK
16 November 2006, 11:31 PM
#33
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: use the Marauder's Map to find out.
Posts: 2,041
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That looks like what I'm used to, but tomato ketchup???!!! I'd have thought that yoghurt with chilli powder and perhaps some tomato puree would be the dip of choice.
(Mouth now watering)
I might need to investigate this at the weekend....
(Mouth now watering)
I might need to investigate this at the weekend....
16 November 2006, 11:33 PM
#34
Originally Posted by douglasb
That looks like what I'm used to, but tomato ketchup???!!! I'd have thought that yoghurt with chilli powder and perhaps some tomato puree would be the dip of choice.
(Mouth now watering)
I might need to investigate this at the weekend....
(Mouth now watering)
I might need to investigate this at the weekend....
17 November 2006, 12:34 AM
#40
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rannoch
gatty,
a little bit like statistics the respondents to this thread tend to show that you are not in the majority.
The great thing about this country is that you can actually have a view and freely share it. I am sure there are other countries where you could live and have a great time. Having been to many of them they have issues and challenges too.
America is misdirecting political currency to the Middle East as a clear domestic focus would reveal a country about to go completely bust.
South America is a gamble pretty much wherever you go.
Africa could be great but you would be deeply isolated.
Europe is growing up pretty much like the UK.
Eastern Europe/Russia is the new Wild West.
China is the new Hong Kong.
India has 500 million people who can't afford to eat.
South East Asia is politically difficult and volatile.
And Australia won't let you in.
There we go - stereotyped the whole globe on the same basis that the UK is **** - oh, I forgot, the Artic is too cold even though it is melting and Antartica really is too cold.
Rannoch
PS There is no clique against you - we all hate each other equally
a little bit like statistics the respondents to this thread tend to show that you are not in the majority.
The great thing about this country is that you can actually have a view and freely share it. I am sure there are other countries where you could live and have a great time. Having been to many of them they have issues and challenges too.
America is misdirecting political currency to the Middle East as a clear domestic focus would reveal a country about to go completely bust.
South America is a gamble pretty much wherever you go.
Africa could be great but you would be deeply isolated.
Europe is growing up pretty much like the UK.
Eastern Europe/Russia is the new Wild West.
China is the new Hong Kong.
India has 500 million people who can't afford to eat.
South East Asia is politically difficult and volatile.
And Australia won't let you in.
There we go - stereotyped the whole globe on the same basis that the UK is **** - oh, I forgot, the Artic is too cold even though it is melting and Antartica really is too cold.
Rannoch
PS There is no clique against you - we all hate each other equally
What about Switzerland?
17 November 2006, 12:35 AM
#41
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
(as do most of the normal population)
17 November 2006, 12:36 AM
#42
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by scooter(WRX03 PPP)
What about Switzerland?
Mind you they all have downsides too having been there
17 November 2006, 12:41 AM
#43
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Rannoch
OK - I missed Switzerland, Canada and New Zealand - they would be pretty cool places to hang out.
Mind you they all have downsides too having been there
Mind you they all have downsides too having been there
Been there (lived there) too, but to be honest, didn't find anything bad. Now I'm saving up to go back for good. And I agree with the original poster (just to up the stats for his argument), this country has really gone down the pan. I have lived in many places (and eastern europe). The people are friendlier, the beer tastes like beer should, the air is cleaner, the politicians actually have brains (unlike our lot over here). They work less hours and have more time for the family. They are not obsessed with taxing everyone out of their home and tend to deal with crime much better also. I could go on and on and on but what's the point. The fact is that most places (yes I agree not all), are better than here. When I go away, it's nice to come back initially, but after a few months you really get to see what a sh!thole this place really is and the amount of sh!theads that live here.
Oh, and there's a lot less of the "Political Correctness" / Nanny - do gooders in the other countries (with exception to Austria and Germany who are paying the Jews for the rest of their life). BTW In the middle of Austria (Vienna), they have errected a GAS CHAMBER!!!! in memory of the Jews that were killed!!! right in the middle of the inner district. Lovely.
Last edited by scooter(WRX03 PPP); 17 November 2006 at 12:44 AM.
17 November 2006, 12:55 AM
#44
Originally Posted by Rannoch
...and then you woke up to reality. You have interesting views for someone who is clearly so intelligent
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
17 November 2006, 12:59 AM
#45
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 336
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Well lets be objective for a change instead of jumping down his throat, and remember that perception is often more important than reality. Also bear in mind that I don't suffer fools or criminals gladly.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
17 November 2006, 08:28 AM
#47
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 9,196
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Well lets be objective for a change instead of jumping down his throat, and remember that perception is often more important than reality. Also bear in mind that I don't suffer fools or criminals gladly.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
17 November 2006, 08:34 AM
#48
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't even start on the New Labour attempt at 'cool Britannia' ..... a few cocktails at No. 10 with that chimp (albeit talented) from Oasis & Ted Baker doesn't make anything cool.
We are now the 'UK'.......... it's like Disneyland Paris reverting back to EuroDisney........... bland, bland, bland.............
We are now the 'UK'.......... it's like Disneyland Paris reverting back to EuroDisney........... bland, bland, bland.............
17 November 2006, 08:35 AM
#49
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Well lets be objective for a change instead of jumping down his throat, and remember that perception is often more important than reality. Also bear in mind that I don't suffer fools or criminals gladly.
In what way did I 'jump down his throat'? As I say I enjoy gatty's posts although I don't agree with his politic. I see no evidence in this thread of 'jumping down his throat'.
An example of jumping down his throat in the style of the usual anti-Blair, BNP sympathisers of this board would be, "What a complete *** you puff fascist tosser, why don't you go and f*ck off out which hole you crawled out of".
(Just for reference the pejorative language I have chosen to use can all be found in gatty's posts elsewhere.)
Also to open your comments with the "let's be objective" statement is laughable.
The actual truth is, "let's be subjective with a view of Kiwi's politic".
I think it is great that people share their politic but let's not patronise those less smart than you by pretending that you are the voice of reason, truth and objective justice.
Have a great day,
Rannoch
17 November 2006, 09:12 AM
#50
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Well lets be objective for a change instead of jumping down his throat, and remember that perception is often more important than reality. Also bear in mind that I don't suffer fools or criminals gladly.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
OK there are some rare and very unfortunate incidents, but you're only talking about cases of severe personality disorders, which is not the same as mental health or learning disabilities, and largely thought to be untreatable.
I agree some people are very dangerous, but in a free society that we all want, you can't lock people up because you think they're a bit dodgy. Wouldn't that be the police state people on here so detest?
For what it's worth, most people with mental health problems are in far more danger from the public than vice-versa.
Still, why let facts get in the way of a good arguement?!
17 November 2006, 09:38 AM
#51
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Can someone explain to me what was wrong with Prince Charles and Tony Blair pleading for the life of a British citizen? And furthermore arguing that if his sentence has been commuted to life, then the 18 years already served is enough.
PS - I will not accept "he is the wrong colour" or "At some point either he or his forebears were immigrants" as valid answers.
17 November 2006, 10:01 AM
#52
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by PeteBrant
Can someone explain to me what was wrong with Prince Charles and Tony Blair pleading for the life of a British citizen? And furthermore arguing that if his sentence has been commuted to life, then the 18 years already served is enough.
PS - I will not accept "he is the wrong colour" or "At some point either he or his forebears were immigrants" as valid answers.
PS - I will not accept "he is the wrong colour" or "At some point either he or his forebears were immigrants" as valid answers.
it is shocking I know but the Foreign Office, Diplomats, the Anglican Church, the Royal Family and the Government have been known to make interventions on behalf of British Citizens abroad for hundreds of years. Indeed it is encoded in the definition of being a British Citizen.
Even more shocking was that the man in question was actually acquitted by the Judicial process in Pakistan and was only later convicted under Sharia law.
But as has been pointed out above, let not facts get in the way of a good posting!
Rannoch
17 November 2006, 11:03 AM
#53
When you get over the arrogant nature of thinking that the British are always right, then you will see that the provision of consular assistance is fine and to be expected, but to actively work behind the scenes with another state is wrong.
Imagine if the reverse happened - if a Nigerian man killed someone in the UK, by accident, but the Nigerian government petitioned the UK govt and managed to get him out of jail. Would that be acceptable?
Imagine if the reverse happened - if a Nigerian man killed someone in the UK, by accident, but the Nigerian government petitioned the UK govt and managed to get him out of jail. Would that be acceptable?
17 November 2006, 11:17 AM
#54
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK - it is coffee break time so lets open up the debate.
I see many contridictions in the debate about what the 'public' think as we speak on their behalf. My observation is how does the public becoming selfish fit with them all being 'politically correct'? The two are juxtaposed.
With regard to the second point point - the fact the public accepts what is thrown at them is the publics democratic right. And every four to five years they can exercise that right by voting for a different Government. And one right is maybe not to vote at all!
It is interesting in new democracies - everyone votes with commitment and political vigour. It does not take long for this to wear off - maybe 15-20 years. And here we have had democratic process in place for nearly a hundred years.
It is the very nature that defines this country that we have an open political system (that gets more open with each passing day) and a democratic process. And even better - if we don't like that process any individual can stand up and do something about it, if they choose to.
When was Britain Great? It was Great Britain it had an Empire - those halcyon days when we went to other countries raped them of their natural resources, exploited their labour and generally had a great time at others expense. That is generally what is meant by 'Great Britain' a concept that has been in rapid decline since the end of the second world war.
From my own perspective Great Britain actually has a much greater legacy to offer. In so many countries that I visit the Judicial system, the democratic process, the health service, the social welfare systems, the media (especially the BBC) are looked on with great respect and some cases envy. They are all seriously flawed and growing and changing all the time, but in countries without these social advances (and there are a great many) they are held up as examples of what is possible and what can be learned from them.
I agree that it is an adsurd case. I also believe that a convicted criminal is punished by having his liberty taken away. The criminal, as has been true for at least a hundred years, is not to be taken away and systematically abused by fault or omission. Heroin addiction is a treatable disease and the prison service has a duty of care to treat prisoners when they are sick. And if you have seen a heroin addict go cold turkey then you would realise it was a sickness.
I have already responded to this above.
The only comment I can add to the excellent post responding to this is that for you or anyone to judge 'mental' people asks that you sit as judge, jury and executioner. I also find your judgement of people with mental health issues as 'evil' totally abhorrent. How can someone be 'evil' when they don't even know their own name.
I agree with you that economically immigration is a necessity. Especially with the ageing demographic of the UK population. I also believe that much more needs to be done in terms of social integration and social cohesion. Shouting at them from the rooftops really won't help!
To my mind social integration is not making everyone the same or pretending there is no Christmas. It is being respectful and celebrating differences.
All of this comes through better education, tolerance and dialogue.
There will always be extremists on all sides - but an eye for an eye only makes us all blind.
Have a wonderful day,
Rannoch
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Well lets be objective for a change instead of jumping down his throat, and remember that perception is often more important than reality. Also bear in mind that I don't suffer fools or criminals gladly.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
If we take the salient points that Gatty is complaining about then he is quite correct.
Brainwashed/Soft as ****/Door mat etc
Yes, I believe the majority of the British public fits this description. As long as their house prices keep rising and they can afford an Easyjet holiday once a year, a pair or trainers every month etc then they don't give a toss about the country and it's future. Most of the publuc have become selfish. Most of the public will also accept anything the government throws at them with little more than a grumble.
With regard to the second point point - the fact the public accepts what is thrown at them is the publics democratic right. And every four to five years they can exercise that right by voting for a different Government. And one right is maybe not to vote at all!
It is interesting in new democracies - everyone votes with commitment and political vigour. It does not take long for this to wear off - maybe 15-20 years. And here we have had democratic process in place for nearly a hundred years.
It is the very nature that defines this country that we have an open political system (that gets more open with each passing day) and a democratic process. And even better - if we don't like that process any individual can stand up and do something about it, if they choose to.
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Country no longer Great - Bad news etc
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
Yes. Britain has lost it's greatness. For example what do you search out that is British and would make you proud of owning? Bad news may often be hyped but the majority of the media in the UK like to hype bad news.
From my own perspective Great Britain actually has a much greater legacy to offer. In so many countries that I visit the Judicial system, the democratic process, the health service, the social welfare systems, the media (especially the BBC) are looked on with great respect and some cases envy. They are all seriously flawed and growing and changing all the time, but in countries without these social advances (and there are a great many) they are held up as examples of what is possible and what can be learned from them.
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Prisoners compensation
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Well this is clearly ridiculous, a farcical situation that would occur nowhere else in the world - except possible in places with significant British influence (eg: Aus/NZ)
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Prince Charles sticking up for a prisoner in Pakistan
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Utterly ridiculous for Britain to interfere in the affairs of another sovereign state.
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Murders by mental people
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Reasonably preventable if the emphasis was taken off rehabilatation and putting people back in the community. Hard fact: It doesn't work. People will always be mental and evil. They need to be separated from society permanently.
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Immigrants
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
With the concept of "perception" in mind there is clearly a problem that a large majority of the population are unhappy with. Immigration is largely seen as uncontrolled and a threat. While this may not be the case and immigration is obvious a necessity and in many cases the immigrant workers are better than the natives, there is still a large problem of this being abused and this is espeially obvious with the demand for social services.
To my mind social integration is not making everyone the same or pretending there is no Christmas. It is being respectful and celebrating differences.
All of this comes through better education, tolerance and dialogue.
There will always be extremists on all sides - but an eye for an eye only makes us all blind.
Have a wonderful day,
Rannoch
17 November 2006, 11:21 AM
#55
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Worthing..
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
Imagine if the reverse happened - if a Nigerian man killed someone in the UK, by accident, but the Nigerian government petitioned the UK govt and managed to get him out of jail. Would that be acceptable?
It's not as if the guy was put in jail yesterday. He was sentenced to death, and after 18 years, the sentence was commuted to life, and seeing as he has served 18 years, it has been decreed that he has "done his time".
Therefore he can return home to Yorkshire, hopefully before christmas.
If a member of my family was in jail in another country, I would be petitioning all day and night to bring them home to serve time in a UK prison.
17 November 2006, 11:21 AM
#56
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by KiwiGTI
When you get over the arrogant nature of thinking that the British are always right, then you will see that the provision of consular assistance is fine and to be expected, but to actively work behind the scenes with another state is wrong.
Imagine if the reverse happened - if a Nigerian man killed someone in the UK, by accident, but the Nigerian government petitioned the UK govt and managed to get him out of jail. Would that be acceptable?
Imagine if the reverse happened - if a Nigerian man killed someone in the UK, by accident, but the Nigerian government petitioned the UK govt and managed to get him out of jail. Would that be acceptable?
I said that is was a normal process.
And to your last point - it happens all the time!
17 November 2006, 11:27 AM
#57
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,877
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that all the points made by Gatty are perfectly valid. This country is going down the tubes at the moment with not an ounce of concern from our benighted leaders-(for cash of course)!
I for one am glad to see someone standing up for this country and the old values which were indeed for personal responsibilty and unselfish thought for others.
Its all very well to make jibes about emigrating to another country, but that is not the point. We built this country up over so many years and with so much personal sacrifice during the hard and dangerous times and I think we have the right to be able to continue to live here without having to put up with today's criminally minded and murdering arseholes whose only thought is for themselves. Trouble is that attitude is beginning to rub off on so many people in their own defence.
Les
I for one am glad to see someone standing up for this country and the old values which were indeed for personal responsibilty and unselfish thought for others.
Its all very well to make jibes about emigrating to another country, but that is not the point. We built this country up over so many years and with so much personal sacrifice during the hard and dangerous times and I think we have the right to be able to continue to live here without having to put up with today's criminally minded and murdering arseholes whose only thought is for themselves. Trouble is that attitude is beginning to rub off on so many people in their own defence.
Les
17 November 2006, 11:37 AM
#58
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: shine on you crazy diamond
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Leslie
I think that all the points made by Gatty are perfectly valid. This country is going down the tubes at the moment with not an ounce of concern from our benighted leaders-(for cash of course)!
I for one am glad to see someone standing up for this country and the old values which were indeed for personal responsibilty and unselfish thought for others.
Its all very well to make jibes about emigrating to another country, but that is not the point. We built this country up over so many years and with so much personal sacrifice during the hard and dangerous times and I think we have the right to be able to continue to live here without having to put up with today's criminally minded and murdering arseholes whose only thought is for themselves. Trouble is that attitude is beginning to rub off on so many people in their own defence.
Les
I for one am glad to see someone standing up for this country and the old values which were indeed for personal responsibilty and unselfish thought for others.
Its all very well to make jibes about emigrating to another country, but that is not the point. We built this country up over so many years and with so much personal sacrifice during the hard and dangerous times and I think we have the right to be able to continue to live here without having to put up with today's criminally minded and murdering arseholes whose only thought is for themselves. Trouble is that attitude is beginning to rub off on so many people in their own defence.
Les
thank you leslie nice to see you have the vision to see things how they are and what we have done in the past only to let it all slip away into a non working multicultral pit.
17 November 2006, 11:39 AM
#59
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: RIP - Tam the bam & Andy the Jock
Posts: 14,333
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by gatty
thank you leslie nice to see you have the vision to see things how they are and what we have done in the past only to let it all slip away into a non working multicultral ****-pit.
17 November 2006, 11:42 AM
#60
Originally Posted by pwhittle
I won't comment on immegration, I think that's been done to death. However people's views on care in the community ( a phrase 20 years out of date BTW) is shows a frightening lack of knowledge. Are you really saying that everybody supported in the community, people with mental health problems, learning disabilities, the elderly etc) should be banged up to save the public? Should your slightly dotty grandad be locked up? How about my 3 year old daughter with learning disabilities?
OK there are some rare and very unfortunate incidents, but you're only talking about cases of severe personality disorders, which is not the same as mental health or learning disabilities, and largely thought to be untreatable.
I agree some people are very dangerous, but in a free society that we all want, you can't lock people up because you think they're a bit dodgy. Wouldn't that be the police state people on here so detest?
For what it's worth, most people with mental health problems are in far more danger from the public than vice-versa.
Still, why let facts get in the way of a good arguement?!
OK there are some rare and very unfortunate incidents, but you're only talking about cases of severe personality disorders, which is not the same as mental health or learning disabilities, and largely thought to be untreatable.
I agree some people are very dangerous, but in a free society that we all want, you can't lock people up because you think they're a bit dodgy. Wouldn't that be the police state people on here so detest?
For what it's worth, most people with mental health problems are in far more danger from the public than vice-versa.
Still, why let facts get in the way of a good arguement?!
There is never an excusable reason to commit a pre-meditated crime in this country and I don't hold any sympathy to criminals whatsoever and believe the should lose all rights other than those that allow them to survive.
And Rannoch, heroin addiction a disease? Tell that to someone with MS or terminal cancer. It's a self-afflicted chemical and psychological addiction, cold turkey is the best thing that cold happen to them. Methadone treatments are just another excuse. Like giving an alcoholic lager instead of Vodka.