Ah, but in everyday driving this is as much about where you produce the power in the rev range as how much you produce

This is what a good turbo diesel does very well and Honda Civic Type R does poorly (two extremes there).

Ns04

 

Hence why driveability has been touched on.

But who says more power and driveability can not go hand in hand (to a level).

BIG figures are nothing in isolation and the purpose for which it is intended needs to be taken in to account.

Regards,
Shaun.

 

Shaun - you can comment from experience of driving a 350 / 350 + Scooby on the road (with useful broad lowdown torque to boot (no pun!)) - not that terrifying is it? - just requires acclimatisation..

 

It's not terrifying, but then I have owned and driven a number of fast cars... BUT.... you have to command it respect. The way my car bolts up the road at present (370/350) is very quick for a road car. Power is pretty much instant and you can easily get caught out. But in essence, dependant on experience, this could be the same with any car. If I pushed a standard Impreza hard enough, it will catch me out.

In all cases it comes down to the competance of the driver (as well as the car). If a car is fast enough to you, it makes no difference if it has 10bhp or 1000bhp. If it handles the way you want it, it makes no difference if it using 20yr shocks or fully blown competiton 3 way adjustables.

To generalise is a problem personally....

Saying 400bhp for a road car is too much is not substantiated in my view. If you are comfortable with both the driveability and handling then that is all that should matter.

Admittedly, reliability should be paramount..... but then, when it's you're car and you're pocket..... thats entirely up to you on how much importance you put on that.

It's always horses for courses.

Regards,
Shaun.

 

Also....

If people spent more time on actually learning how to drive what they have, that would easily make up for more bhp (comparing the same driver in another more powerful car). Also don't underestimate the handling/stopping side of these cars, whilst they are very good as standard, wise money can be spent on these areas that again with experience can enable you to drive quicker and safer without the need for BHP increases.

Too many people look for big bhp numbers, when in reality they will only be able to take advantage of a small percentage of that.

Regards,
Shaun.

 

not having a go but think how much 400bhp will cost ie t25-£35-40,000.
i am sure you could get 400bhp 400lbs/ft on a 2.0l engine but it would not last very long on standard clutch/gearbox etc.i had a chat to tsl last year re 400bhp they want to go internal in order to get reliability as otherwise they reckon the engine would not run at that spec for long 370/340 seems reasonable with new turbo which is £1,000 alone.i think john banks had 400bhp + in his 2.5l remapped hybrid turbo etc and that cost more than £2,000 but was very nice when i had a lift in it
martin

 

very true
martin

 

As said, for a fast road car, I firmly believe a well setup (brakes/suspension/weight) scoob with ~330/330 with quick spool up and little lag will, in real world terms be as quick if not quicker than many mega power cars. (AF's 'project wrx' highlights this)

AFAIC it's down to a balanced setup (with no bottle necks) and good road based mapping. Not number chasing peak figures.

Now on the strip/track that's a different matter.

 

Still no answer from AF - so following Shauns development.

Had a new age STi PPP checked at 310 decatted which was quick in the cold and luke warm - err - in the warm. - Also have a Griff @ 300 lb ft / ton (similar to scoob with 400 lb ft!) and 2wd + SWB also a GTI ultra short wb with 'touring car engine spec -ish!' - c 205 bhp - all great fun in right conditions, however Scooby can easily take 380 / 380 as a driving car, however I will be the first to confess that i dont know what reliability we will get with 9/10ths driving on private / quiet country roads (no track work) ... - I cetainly dont want the engine to let go.. - however i am quietly confident that this level of performance is available reliably and on budget, if only JDM based ( i am hoping that Shauns latest development will show how to change an STi with the replacement to the twin scroll std JDM turbo)

380/380 territory, lag free, broad power band for STi + £2k - there are a lot of customers out here Tuners......

 

quote=Gutmann pug]So the cost to you to get the car to 357bhp was

just been on rollers made 357bhp/361ftlb

roughly cost around £1300-1400


PPP = bougth car with ppp
Centre de-cat = £100
rb remap=761
Headers = £425 with upipe
Panel filter = £40

I still reckon that near 400 / 400 is available for 2-2.5 £ k..

 

Over 360 lb ft for £1300 - are u guys still going to bet that 20 ft lb more cant be had for twice the cost??!! - law of diminishing returns accepted

solid 375 ft lb with great driving characteristics on an 03 STI PPP for £1500 seems achievable?

see: 'WRC 350 ppp package' Thread

 

btt

 

For information.....

My Stage 1 modifications already attained 400lbft on WRC's RR.



Regards,
Shaun.