WRX humbled by ****box.
04 October 2005, 11:34 AM
#31
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Originally Posted by kwakman
Nice! I only got 5 laps in my crapbox old wrx (with eagles) and had to slow for crashes every lap. The lap with only 1 crash was my 4th so only managed 9.07. Shouldnt have gone on the bank holiday weekend track was more shut than open 
Sounds like youll bust 9 mins this time. Keep it wheels down on the black bit. Best of luck.
Sounds like youll bust 9 mins this time. Keep it wheels down on the black bit. Best of luck.
"Only" a 9:07.
don't be silly - the word "only" is not required - that is very good in a WRX and after 5 laps. Very good indeed.
04 October 2005, 11:37 AM
#32
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Actually I remember a guy on a meet called madjon who had a 306-6 on an evo meet round my way. He was a handy pedaller and I couldnt gain that much on him in a 93wrx on the B1050 Chatteris-Earith road in Cambs. Tidy little fwd hatch.
04 October 2005, 11:39 AM
#33
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Yeah Id like to get back there with some proper brakes and a clear lap! It'd be nice to bust 9 mins. Full marks for doing it in a 306 though - you'll be carrying some serious mid-corner speed!
04 October 2005, 11:45 AM
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For what it's worth I still think that a full exhaust system with de-cat pipe combined with an induction kit with cold air feed can give 15bhp at the top end on an old car with comparatively poorly designed originals to begin with. As the car in question has around 170bhp to begin with this is less than a 10% improvement so hardly an absurd claim. Sure on a Nova with a 1.4 you'd then be lucky to see 5bhp.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
04 October 2005, 11:51 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by Ben WRX Bug-Eye
For what it's worth I still think that a full exhaust system with de-cat pipe combined with an induction kit with cold air feed can give 15bhp at the top end on an old car with comparatively poorly designed originals to begin with. As the car in question has around 170bhp to begin with this is less than a 10% improvement so hardly an absurd claim. Sure on a Nova with a 1.4 you'd then be lucky to see 5bhp.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
04 October 2005, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Handling is so good the cornering would also be superior.
04 October 2005, 11:58 AM
#37
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Originally Posted by Ben WRX Bug-Eye
I am tempted to buy one of the old classic hot hatches myself, maybe a 205 GTi 1.6 if I can find a good one. They do seem to make a lot of sense when it comes to going on the track. Stripped out with minor mods and they can put in some very impressive lap times - as demonstrated by yourself.
04 October 2005, 12:00 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
Why the 1.6?? Slower, smaller brakes, more likely to have been ill treated....
04 October 2005, 12:23 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by davyboy
To give this story some credit.
We took the Clio cup and 306 for a ride along a quiet stretch of road and there is nothing in it......and we all know a Clio Cup is as quick as a new age WRX.
We took the Clio cup and 306 for a ride along a quiet stretch of road and there is nothing in it......and we all know a Clio Cup is as quick as a new age WRX.
By a ton I am several car lengths clear and increasing.
04 October 2005, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Daz34
From a rolling start, my mates GTI-6 and my 172 are neck & neck upto about sixty but from there on I start to pull away quite comfortably. By a ton I am several car lengths clear and increasing.
Dave
04 October 2005, 12:26 PM
#42
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Originally Posted by Daz34
From a rolling start, my mates GTI-6 and my 172 are neck & neck upto about sixty but from there on I start to pull away quite comfortably.
By a ton I am several car lengths clear and increasing.
By a ton I am several car lengths clear and increasing.
Either way, we're both ahead of the Scoobs.
04 October 2005, 12:29 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Ben WRX Bug-Eye
For what it's worth I still think that a full exhaust system with de-cat pipe combined with an induction kit with cold air feed can give 15bhp at the top end on an old car with comparatively poorly designed originals to begin with. As the car in question has around 170bhp to begin with this is less than a 10% improvement so hardly an absurd claim. Sure on a Nova with a 1.4 you'd then be lucky to see 5bhp.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
As the GTi-6 in question has just the de-cat pipe then it must be down to it's weight. Fully stripped out it probably has the power (at the wheels) to weight ratio to hold off a WRX in a straight line.
An exhaust/induction kit will only ever get 4-5bhp max on any of the XU engines (GTi-6, Mi16 p1 and p2).
To give you an idea, the Mi16 engine in my 205 has had gas flowed head, re-worked valves and Piper 268 cams as well as full rebuild and it makes 180bhp, just 20 over std.
I should have more when the TB's go on next week, but even then only about 195bhp, so an extra 35bhp for about £2500 worth of work.
Though it does only weigh about 860kg
Still great engines and cars though
04 October 2005, 12:31 PM
#44
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Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
The XU Pug engines are notoriously difficult to get power out of, using bolt on bits as they were quite highly tuned when made.
An exhaust/induction kit will only ever get 4-5bhp max on any of the XU engines (GTi-6, Mi16 p1 and p2).
To give you an idea, the Mi16 engine in my 205 has had gas flowed head, re-worked valves and Piper 268 cams as well as full rebuild and it makes 180bhp, just 20 over std.
I should have more when the TB's go on next week, but even then only about 195bhp, so an extra 35bhp for about £2500 worth of work.
Though it does only weigh about 860kg
Still great engines and cars though
An exhaust/induction kit will only ever get 4-5bhp max on any of the XU engines (GTi-6, Mi16 p1 and p2).
To give you an idea, the Mi16 engine in my 205 has had gas flowed head, re-worked valves and Piper 268 cams as well as full rebuild and it makes 180bhp, just 20 over std.
I should have more when the TB's go on next week, but even then only about 195bhp, so an extra 35bhp for about £2500 worth of work.
Though it does only weigh about 860kg
Still great engines and cars though
04 October 2005, 12:42 PM
#46
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Originally Posted by Andy M3
What is the wheel horse power of a stock WRX and a 306 GTI-6 ?
GTi-6 is 167bhp at flywheel in standard form. Mine's probably 170bhp.
04 October 2005, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Dream Weaver
The XU Pug engines are notoriously difficult to get power out of, using bolt on bits as they were quite highly tuned when made.
An exhaust/induction kit will only ever get 4-5bhp max on any of the XU engines (GTi-6, Mi16 p1 and p2).
To give you an idea, the Mi16 engine in my 205 has had gas flowed head, re-worked valves and Piper 268 cams as well as full rebuild and it makes 180bhp, just 20 over std.
I should have more when the TB's go on next week, but even then only about 195bhp, so an extra 35bhp for about £2500 worth of work.
Though it does only weigh about 860kg
Still great engines and cars though
An exhaust/induction kit will only ever get 4-5bhp max on any of the XU engines (GTi-6, Mi16 p1 and p2).
To give you an idea, the Mi16 engine in my 205 has had gas flowed head, re-worked valves and Piper 268 cams as well as full rebuild and it makes 180bhp, just 20 over std.
I should have more when the TB's go on next week, but even then only about 195bhp, so an extra 35bhp for about £2500 worth of work.
Though it does only weigh about 860kg
Still great engines and cars though
04 October 2005, 01:17 PM
#50
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Cheers, should sound pretty good - TB's are from a Suzuki GSXR, so not entirely sure whether they will work that well yet, but worth a try. Its taking ages to get them fitted though with all the messing about.
04 October 2005, 01:40 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by Andy M3
I would have gone round both of you in my diesel Skoda 
BTW I once beat a Peugeot GTi-6 to legal speeds in my dads 2.0l Capri (A 19 year old sh*t box).
Happy to share that with you too!
NS04
04 October 2005, 03:30 PM
#52
When I had my MY2000 UK Turbo I raced a friend of mine in his 306 Rallye at Santa Pod. I ran 14.4 sec qtr and he did 15.4. So I was a second quicker. However, when we studied the timing slips we could see that I pulled that 1 sec lead out in the first 1/8 of a mile. Over the second 1/8 I didn't pull out any more time. So my point is from 50-60mph upwards a standard UK Scooby will not out accelerate a 170bhp hot hatch.
04 October 2005, 04:04 PM
#53
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But here is the thing....some peeps seem to take a perverse delight in telling Scooby owners what we already know: i.e. that a Scooby's main advantage is in the 0-60 sprint, above about 60, the weight and transmission losses start to take their toll.
I'm a proud classic owner, but I'm not blind, the scooby does not have a performance advantage of the magnitude it once enjoyed over some of the hot hatch brigade. It seems like the rice rockets have hit an unofficial power ceiling whilst the hot hatches have not quite got there yet....although I predict that they are nearly there as some of the current ones highlight the problems of putting over 200bhp through the front wheels!
BUT and its a BIG BUT (talking J-Lo proportions)
1) They're still quicker than most hot hatches to 100 and last time I checked the speed limit was 70mph anyway (ahem)
2) They're usually quicker in the 30-70 through the gears too, which is more real world relevant and people can't cry foul at 4wd traction here cause its not relevant.
3) Their power delivery is more exciting and impressive, you just can't beat a good slug of turbo torque, which also makes for good in gear times)
4) They're less frenetic when you want a bit of poke without having to gun it. 5) They can be tuned so that the performance above 70 improves significantly for not a huuge heap of money. The same mods also make them EVEN faster below 70mph.
6) Despite what some people tell you, 4WD traction is a big advantage when it comes to the twisties (and that's where the most fun is to be had), especially for the kind of roads and weather conditions we have here in the UK.
NS04
I'm a proud classic owner, but I'm not blind, the scooby does not have a performance advantage of the magnitude it once enjoyed over some of the hot hatch brigade. It seems like the rice rockets have hit an unofficial power ceiling whilst the hot hatches have not quite got there yet....although I predict that they are nearly there as some of the current ones highlight the problems of putting over 200bhp through the front wheels!
BUT and its a BIG BUT (talking J-Lo proportions)
1) They're still quicker than most hot hatches to 100 and last time I checked the speed limit was 70mph anyway (ahem)
2) They're usually quicker in the 30-70 through the gears too, which is more real world relevant and people can't cry foul at 4wd traction here cause its not relevant.
3) Their power delivery is more exciting and impressive, you just can't beat a good slug of turbo torque
, which also makes for good in gear times)4) They're less frenetic when you want a bit of poke without having to gun it. 5) They can be tuned so that the performance above 70 improves significantly for not a huuge heap of money. The same mods also make them EVEN faster below 70mph.
6) Despite what some people tell you, 4WD traction is a big advantage when it comes to the twisties (and that's where the most fun is to be had), especially for the kind of roads and weather conditions we have here in the UK.
NS04
04 October 2005, 04:12 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
2) They're usually quicker in the 30-70 through the gears too, which is more real world relevant
3) Their power delivery is more exciting and impressive, you just can't beat a good slug of turbo torque, which also makes for good in gear times)
4) They're less frenetic when you want a bit of poke without having to gun it.
5) They can be tuned so that the performance above 70 improves significantly for not a huuge heap of money. The same mods also make them EVEN faster below 70mph.
NS04
3) Their power delivery is more exciting and impressive, you just can't beat a good slug of turbo torque
, which also makes for good in gear times)4) They're less frenetic when you want a bit of poke without having to gun it.
5) They can be tuned so that the performance above 70 improves significantly for not a huuge heap of money. The same mods also make them EVEN faster below 70mph.
NS04
that is usually what I say about my Fabia ??? Seriously though, I think it is less about scoobies and more about David and Goliath scenario. Scoobies are perceived to be monster quick cars, and when a hot hatch or similar gets the upper hand, it sends everyone giddy
It is only a bit of fun - and not to be taken too seriously, hense the excessive use of smilies 
onder2: 
04 October 2005, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kwakman
Nice! I only got 5 laps in my crapbox old wrx (with eagles) and had to slow for crashes every lap. The lap with only 1 crash was my 4th so only managed 9.07. Shouldnt have gone on the bank holiday weekend track was more shut than open
Sounds like youll bust 9 mins this time. Keep it wheels down on the black bit. Best of luck.
Sounds like youll bust 9 mins this time. Keep it wheels down on the black bit. Best of luck.
You were doing pretty well as far as im concerned .....
Gary
04 October 2005, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben WRX Bug-Eye
I am tempted to buy one of the old classic hot hatches myself, maybe a 205 GTi 1.6 if I can find a good one. They do seem to make a lot of sense when it comes to going on the track. Stripped out with minor mods and they can put in some very impressive lap times - as demonstrated by yourself.
Gary
Last edited by Gutmann pug; 04 October 2005 at 04:21 PM.
04 October 2005, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Gutmann pug
Your going to need to get into the 8.40's to beat my 130bhp french clutter box .........still your benchmark seniorAP and you have at least 40bhp more than me
Gary
Gary
NS04
04 October 2005, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior_AP
I spent much of Saturday doing bit's and bobs to the car, notably harness fitment and seats. The sort of stuff that you think would take half an hour but ends up taking most of the day. Anyway, once finished I took her out, along with a friend for a drive. After 15 mins I approached a roundabout, joined the roundabout and continued round, I noticed to my left a 53 plate WRX in silver joining the roundabout, I noticed that he saw me (all my Nurburgring stickers make my car far from inconspicuous), with that, like a shot he was right up my jacksie. I, at this point was not planning to "race" him.
So, I was in second and pulled off the roundabout onto the dual carriageway, I was in the mood to boot it, so to speak. I did so with the WRX two car lengths behind. As I accelerated up through the gears I noticed the bonnet of the WRX behind lifting and dropping quite heavily as he went through the gears. This turned into a straight drag race......I pulled over to the left lane as I'd passed all traffic, as I did so the WRX decided to stay out in the over taking lane (becasue he'd overtake me right, of course - silly!!). His teeth were grit, his expression stern, his mood serious. Could he get past?? Could he fooock. He sat in the outside lane 2 car lengths behind me, his turbo hissing swishing pissshing and penelope bwwiissshing all the way. I eventually eased off at a spirited level of speed as my junction was fast approaching, he then continued on, I looked over with a rye smile - he however maintained his forward vision, stern and utterly unimpressed that his "supercar killer" just sat side by side with a 10 year old 306 GTi-6 with no other mods other than a de-cat and induction kit, and we both know the latter is purely for sound.
Lesson learned? The fastest car on planet earth still can't get past a 10 year old piece of 4 cylinder clutter with 95k miles on the clock........and we were 2 up.
What a car, what - a - car!!!
Happy to share this with you.
So, I was in second and pulled off the roundabout onto the dual carriageway, I was in the mood to boot it, so to speak. I did so with the WRX two car lengths behind. As I accelerated up through the gears I noticed the bonnet of the WRX behind lifting and dropping quite heavily as he went through the gears. This turned into a straight drag race......I pulled over to the left lane as I'd passed all traffic, as I did so the WRX decided to stay out in the over taking lane (becasue he'd overtake me right, of course - silly!!). His teeth were grit, his expression stern, his mood serious. Could he get past?? Could he fooock. He sat in the outside lane 2 car lengths behind me, his turbo hissing swishing pissshing and penelope bwwiissshing all the way. I eventually eased off at a spirited level of speed as my junction was fast approaching, he then continued on, I looked over with a rye smile - he however maintained his forward vision, stern and utterly unimpressed that his "supercar killer" just sat side by side with a 10 year old 306 GTi-6 with no other mods other than a de-cat and induction kit, and we both know the latter is purely for sound.
Lesson learned? The fastest car on planet earth still can't get past a 10 year old piece of 4 cylinder clutter with 95k miles on the clock........and we were 2 up.
What a car, what - a - car!!!
Happy to share this with you.
You're still a **** with a (clearly) small *****.....
Everyone knows standard WRXs (regardless of whether bugeye or blobeye) are not that fast.
04 October 2005, 04:37 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Vlad the Impaler
So what?
You're still a **** with a (clearly) small *****.....
Everyone knows standard WRXs (regardless of whether bugeye or blobeye) are not that fast.
You're still a **** with a (clearly) small *****.....
Everyone knows standard WRXs (regardless of whether bugeye or blobeye) are not that fast.
04 October 2005, 04:42 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by TruthHurts
Translation: Knows **** all about **** all.
Had both, 1.9 is the superior machine hands down.
Had both, 1.9 is the superior machine hands down.
