davedipster

Surely the fine is only being paid because time is running out and they don't want this guy going to court without the full test report being available.
Paying the fine does not admit guilt, it just avoids the courts this time.

Trashman

Exactly my point.

Stainy

But paying one is still an admission of guilt. In the case of a speeding fixed penalty for example, you admit guilt and they give you points on your licence (which is a form of criminal record)

Iain McLaren

Paying a FPN also means that you can never, ever, ever, under any circumstances try to challenge it in the future. Even if some new evidence came to light. Fair system, huh?

Apparently Subaru are more than aware of this though...

Iain McLaren

Hi,


I've had a private message which I'm not going to quote, nor am I going to say who it's from. In a nutshell, Subaru are gonna sort it and we should let 'em get on with it in peace for a little while .

<annoying-winner-advert>Don't worry dears, it's only an exhaust</annoying-winner-advert>

Iain

Granby

iTrader: (5)

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

OK, sounds good I still have faith I think.....

M.Hilder

Cool, I think we'll all be watching this space, I hope it all works out

WR1 Ant

Perhaps they are going too recall all the police cars with PPP that would teach the police a lesson LOL.

MTR

Iain,
Keep the pressure up.
Do not accept any kind of fob off.

Letters to the Department Of Transport, Subaru, Prodrive, Top Gear, Driven, Fith Gear, and a host of magazines as well as the SUN only costs a few pounds in postage + £30 for a fine.
We could have a whip round to cover that.

If Subaru/Prodrive don't use their financial and legal clout to resolve this firmly and effectively what would the bad publicity and lost revenue cost them?

Cheers
MTR

Tim W

iTrader: (1)

Actually, you could take this one step further and contest any prosecutions brought about by officers driving PPP equiped cars, on the grounds that their vehicles were being driven in an un-roadworthy state*!

*IIRC Any police vehicle with a fault that would cause it to fail an MOT has to be immediately withdrawn from service until the fault is rectified

Pavlo

Stay calim little kiddies

warrenm2

Fair enough, but have you got a deadline on action?

Mungo

You lot are like a bunch of sharks with the smell of blood in the water!

Calm down - Iain's said Subaru will sort it. Let's wait and see what they do!

MTR

Pavlo,
I am calm.
I am not a kiddy.
I am however as the owner of a £30,000 STI Prodrive with PPP, with justification, extremly perturbed by this fiasco.

Mungo,

Here is the first post that gave a glimmer of hope.
Sounds promising doesn't it?


Followed by response number 2, which wasn't so positive.
Not quite so promising, and Iain doesn't seem best pleased about it either.
Is he baying for blood, or justice?

This second response might resolve this specific problem, but what about all the other PPP Impreza owners?

Personally I am incandesant with rage at such a dismissive suggestion.


Then we have response number 3.
So everythings OK now.
But why the swaying from one apparent course of action, full vindication to another(£30 cheque), back to full vindication?

Talk is cheap.

Until the two multinationals who were happy to take my £30K carry out their moral and LEGAL obligations to COMPLETELY VINDICATE THE PPP KIT IN ITS AS SUPPLIED CONDITION ie not modified in some way to quieten it down, I will continue to simmer, as I suspect will many other trusting Subaru customers.

Anything less complete vindication will not be satifactory for ALL THE REMAINING PPP OWNERS.

A replacement PPP exhaust that is as quiet as the std WRX system and prevents future legal proceedings, is NOT a std PPP exhaust, as they DO increase the noise level above std.
That is what the Police are prosecuting Iains dad for.

Subaru and Prodrive MUST fight this to set a precedent and to clarify the legislation.
Or refund the monies to all the PPP owners out there, who have paid to become illegal.

Cheers
MTR

Edited to add I wish this thread had been called 'Illegal PRODRIVE Exhaust'.
To dispel any ambiguity about its content.

DEEDEE

How about if everyone wrote to Prodrive requesting information, on having PPP fitted to their cars. We could then finish the letter by saying you have read a post refering to this very matter, and feel that if we where to go ahead with the fitment, we would possibily be breaking the law.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

How about we wait and see what happens. Then do something like that if you do not like the outcome?

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

It's certainly true that one of the reasons I bought the PPP as opposed to any of the alternatives for my MY00, was that I believed it was the only legal aftermarket exhaust because of its unique 'e' mark. Mike Wood of Prodrive has alluded to this on numerous occasions.

Now it would appear that may not be the case - and despite my searches, I can't find any evidence that an 'e' mark is either necessary or sufficient for an exhaust to be legal in the UK. The Construction and Use Regulations do indeed state than an exhaust may not be modified after its manufacture in order to increase the noise level, and they don't mention any requirement for an 'e' mark. By that reckoning, a Prodrive exhaust is no different to any other in legal terms.

I stand to be corrected by anyone with greater expertise and/or better evidence, of course.

Iain McLaren

With hindsight, I should have probably delayed posting the latest developments until I understood what Subaru were doing better.

The money for the FPN (which was paid today *) was simply to get my dad in the clear as it were, and to prevent any (more) unnecessary distress caused by the incident.

I think Subaru's point is that dispersing legal resources to fight one case at a time isn't the way to go. What they need to do (and are doing) is sorting the problem out once and for all, for everyone. Being bombarded with letters or calls of inquiry can only delay this...

What will help though are other examples of drivers being prosecuted for their PPP (or 3rd party?) exhaust. I know there have been some in Highland Region, but none have come forward to lend their weight to the campaign. If you know of someone, please post here, send me a PM, or email me - imclaren[at]techie[dot]com.

I'm sure there are enough people interested/concerned by this issue that it won't be dropped. Just because it's been sorted out from my family's point of view doesn't mean that I'll have no further interest in it either. I will keep posting info as appropriate and nagging the necessary people for updates!

Cheers,

Iain

* at least he went to pay the FPN...I haven't heard from him since. No phone call from HMP Inverness asking for his solicitor either. Hehehehe!

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Iain and MTR,
it's quite a hornets nest/Can of worms I can see Prodrives position at the moment PPP isn't Illegal although a FPN was paid the "Owner/Driver" has admited is was and not a court of Law.
If Prodrive took it on in Court it could have then been deemed "Illegal". Simularly the CPS, they may have to pay "ALL FPN" fines for this back as the case would r could be VERY expensive to both parties, a lot of risk with so little gain. I would imagine a little bit of clock and Dagger stuff and CPS and layers will make a pact.

Athough long winded the European Court would be the best option were a member (Scotland) introduces a a By-Law that makes a Car optional extra which is totally legal to buy and sell within the EU and will pass a SUVA test, made Illegal by that law

IMHO

Tony

VTEC to Turbo

Why don't you show them these photos. LOL

http://bbs.scoobynet.co.uk/showpost....96&postcount=3

The second one doesn't look to be the standard pea shooters!!!!

What is the latest??

DJ140

Looks like a PPP exhaust to me. There were a few PPP'd 00MY Impreza's around York, not sure if they are still in service though.

Who is going to report thae car in the pics?!

I hope this gets sorted soon, I would be very unhappy to be pulled and booked for an official Subaru upgrade. I will print the picture of the back of the PPP'd Police car and leave in the glovebox, just in case I get stopped.

Moray

I wish that would stop them booking you. But the Police appear to be immune to everything, especially getting caught speeding as shown in news recently. I suppose when they are all down the lodge bearing their left nipple and right trouser leg rolled up knee high, or playing a round of golf, they have to boast about booking someone, which actually goes to court. Kiddie molestors, car thiefs, grannie muggers etc are just to hard for these dim wits to actually follow through to prosecution.

MTR

So they say.
I will believe it when I see it.
They were sorting the PPP insurance problem out 12 months ago.

Iain,
No disrespect to you, I don't believe these are your words.

I fail to see how answering extremely valid questions from their customers about the 'illegality' of the product they have purchased should prevent the problem from being sorted out.

Once Subaru/Prodrive enter into discussion/correspondence with the government legal bodies to gain clarification as to what is allowable, are we supposed to believe they employ ONE individual who is sat for a full 8 hour shift, 5 days a week, talking continuously to his/her oppo at the DOT.

Unlikely really.

So when they have finished their phone calls, sent their letters etc to the DOT and whoever else, they should find the time to graciously reply to the people (the mithering customers) who have paid their company money, which is used in part to pay their wages.
I am a bit of a stickler for that sort of thing.

To be brutally frank, it sounds more like certain individuals would rather not get pestered by us, and have to 'grasp the nettle'. (Apologies for the bullsh*t business meeting type quote, but I expect it is used a lot in multinationals).


I've no doubt they would rather not receive formal written complaints/enquiries, as if subsequently the individual customers who have written, falls foul of the law, re noise from his exhaust it will put Subaru/Prodrive in a extremely difficult legal position.
They will not be able to claim lack of knowledge of the potential illegality of their products, and a decent lawyer acting for the customer would exploit that.

Cheers
MTR

craigdmcd

iTrader: (2)

Has any more ever come of this????

donutman

Why not have a whip round and buy a wrx with ppp and a tent. I would then drive it round Inverness untill i am nicked, and after i got the FPN i would go and camp outside prodrive and you could write to the papers\tv (i do fancy that bird from gmtv kate gallaway (ithink that is right)) for me i think that should get this sorted one way or another.



Btw

I did consider a hunger strike as well, but i like my food to much i will leave that one for Wrx Bill

Sith

Well, it's one way to fill the coffers if people are slowing for the Scameras.

Iain McLaren

Nothing yet. Subaru/Prodrive still have his car...

Iain McLaren

Apparently there's a high-power meeting at Subaru today to finalize/discuss the problem.

Hopefully know more this afternoon...

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

I hope they resolve this for you

it does seem strange that's "Legal" Car in the UK and EU can be made "Illegal" by Scotish bylaw

I wonder if the "Uk" made a law that "No cars may be altered ANY way after Prodution" this would kiss goodbye to all manufactures Optional extras.



Tony