LG John

It's beautiful to drive - that is the only way to describe it

I believe you are probably correct that the IK can particularly srew up a vtec engines performance. The other day I recalled this: A few years back I took a test drive in a CTR and was very impressed at its performance. A while later when I had my scooby I met up with a guy one evening for a run in the country and he had a CTR with an induction kit sitting in the cramped engine bay. I'd been posting on hear that I was concerned I'd not lose him after 60mph cause the CTR is quick when moving. I raped it by a shocking distance time and time again that evening. He then took me for a run and it was totally gutless. I offended him a little when I told him there was no doubt in my mind that his car was slower than standard but I honestly believed that.

In a very very very crude manner I guestimated the loss I'm experiencing.

My car is 1260kg and supposed to have 237bhp. My mates elise has about 125bhp and 725kg. Between 10-90mph our cars were exactly matched on acceleration. Over this range the key features is a cars power to weight ratio and on the basis they are matched exactly the suggestion is there that each car has the about the same p/w/r. The elise has 172bhp/ton. If my car is 1260kg at 172bhp/ton then....172/1000*1260 = 217bhp at the fly. I guess its possible that a badly positioned filter could lead to a 20bhp loss, especially when the ecu doesn't like it and adjusts accordingly.

A cold air snorkle may give 2-5bhp but an HKS exhaust is unlikely to give any gain. You have to remember that this car already has 120bhp per litre. You can't get 10bhp from a filter and a further 15bhp from an exhaust. You might get 5bhp from both of them if you are lucky.

CraigH

Saxoboy, don't be daft. This is snet - where all exhausts and filters give at least +20hp each

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I had the opposite on my Rover 200 BRM, it had a carbon air box/filter with a cold air feed, took the cold air feed off and it flew, turned out the cold air pipe was made out of two bits of flexible aluminium tubing, the previous ower had rammed one piece into the other crushing the end, i.e. two same sized pipes into one doesnt work, basically he had lost over half the diameter of the pipe.

After taking it of the car was a lot faster, even when drawing air from the engine bay, never got round to re-doing the pipe as the headgasket went !

Bobby Peru

Who cares??

LG John

Well bob, there are probably a good 500 P1 owners and a good 500 S2000 owners out there that may be interested so in answer to your question around 1000 people care

Dark Blue Mark

Kenny, you really get hung up of figures and calcs! You may have made a good discovery though. Got the OE airbox on yet?

I have an HKS zorst on mine and it sounds very but doubt it gives any gains. Some even say it gives a slight loss.

MB

LG John

Ordered the airbox feed that I need yesterday so hope to have OE airbox on soon enough. Yes I've heard that about the HKS as well which is worrying as I want one! Which of the exhausts sound as good as an HKS but don't lose power?

Dark Blue Mark

I wouldnt be put off Kenny, it feels a little quicker to me but probably the same, and not slower. I think the real gains are in the single exhaust sytems, but you have to have twin pipes for the looks The Mugen and Spoon give some tangible gains - and the manifold helps at the top end. Soooo expensive for any of them though

I think ill try the K&N Gen II filter next as that claims to have a proven 6-8 bhp gain. The HKS one looks nice but is too much (£600!) and the Mugen needs bonnet work.

I had mine dynoed at 232bhp at WRC technologies, with the lid off the airbox, so fairly content its running right. (standard zorst)

MB

scoobyboy1

iTrader: (16)

Seems a lot of ex scooby owners are all gone towards the Honda S2000, When I sold my classic I was in the market for a smallish sports car and ended up with a Audi TT 225, wish now I would have gone for the S2000, 2 months later Audi TT was sold and bought a new scooby.

R 14NS R

i am going to southend tonight, my mate is bringing his s2000 so maybe we may have a go.

see some of you later.

Richard_P

I was behind an S2000 today, A car made a right hand turn in front of us so we started from a fairly low speed. I was in 2nd at about 20mph when he put his foot down and shot off, I followed suit and took it upto about 90 he was ahead but the distance that there was to start with when I put my foot down remained pretty much the same. I drive a Integra Type R DC2. I thought there would be more in it. I suppose he might not have been foot right down but I would say the reason that he raced off was because another sporty honda was behind him so it would be strange not to be going for it in that situation.

In my opinion if it's got a fair bit of pace and is exciting to drive thats the main thing, I'm sure a clio cup would give me a run for my money but I've been in one and driven a 172 and they don't feel as 'special' to me.

Rich

Ben WRX Bug-Eye

I think the extra 25 bhp you would find with a change to the better induction system would probably have resulted in a different story regarding the Clio. If he is just creeping past when you get things spot on, increasing your power by around 10% should be significant on the road.

With extra cold air coming in, a less restrictive exhaust must give more than a couple of bhp. The S2000 engine is incredible in terms of how much power it is producing from the capacity. S2000’s are quiet cars considering, so surely the silencing is sapping power. I honestly expect 10 bhp from a full HKS system in tandem with the cold air feed induction systems, minimum. With a 20bhp power loss to begin with, I think its going to be possible to add 30bhp.

220bhp – 20% = 176bhp/1260kg x 1000 = 140bhp / ton @ wheels

250bhp – 20% = 200bhp/1260kg x 1000 = 159bhp / ton @ wheels

Also like to add this is one of the better threads I’ve seen. In the reviews I have read about the S2000, they all conclude that it is fast car. They have said it is not an easy car to master though. I’d say in the Clio you could learn to get near the maximum out of it quite quickly. The S2000 demands a lot more respect with its snappy over steer and the owner has definitely got to take their time with exploring the limits. One of those cars that needs to be driven by somebody who really knows what they are doing to get the most from it.

My 2001 WRX is slow compared to what the vast majority have on here (been told how much heavier it is etc etc, but still the fastest car I’ve ever owned). The other day I couldn’t close the gap from 60mph onwards (without going to very high speed) against a chipped TDi (150PD) driven by a mate of a mate. This did irritate me for whatever reasons, even though the Impreza is a totally different experience to drive. Added an exhaust with partial de-cat. Now I have the edge over that oil-burner with the extra 20bhp. It is interesting to hear how cars compare in the real world.

As a note, the HKS Racing Suction Kit gives a dyno proven 7bhp on its own according to the HKS technical website. Does cost over 500 though. I've seen somewhere that V-Tec controllers can bring the point at which the V-Tec engages right down. This gives a lot more useable power with having to lose time throwing it down a couple of gears when caught off guard.

Dark Blue Mark

NA cars are a different principle when it comes to releasing back pressure. With a turbo, the less resistance yields big gains as the turbo is allowed to spin more freely. NA cars do respond well to reduction in back pressure but no where near as much. I think 8-10 bhp and youre doing really well on the S2000. The standard air box is pretty huge and really well designed against heat soak. There's a big cone in there and given that it does a great job against heat, I struggle to see how it can be improved TBH. The only way is to increase cold air volume which is difficult...

WRT the standard exhaust, when I took mine off I noticed that its actually very well designed in terms of gas flow, and its 1 piece too. The HKS is a bit more twisty and has a dead end in it where the pipe splits into 2. There are better designed ones out there, but it sounds a bit special!

In conclusion, there aren't many ways to extract power. You could engage the VTEC point a bit lower and change the shape of the power curve, but there are issues with this too.

Superchargers give massive gains, and at 8-9 psi you can see about 340 bhp at the rear wheels That would be nice - but costs about £5k. Maybe one day, but for now - im just enjoying the sunshine, at a very fast pace

MB

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

SB, why dont you sell it and buy a TVR Griffith or Chimera if you are worried about its performance, with the TVR, well the one I went in, you dont have time to think about it, you are too busy holding on.

I think the main thing you are missing is torque, thats what you mainly notice when accelerating and why Diesel Golf owners beleive they drive the fastest car in the world, thats why turbos generally feel faster, its the step in power you notice, I suppose the Vtec gubbins does that to a certain extent but I wouldnt imagine it is anything as pronounced (havent been in one so flying a bit blind there, excuse me if I am talking crap). I think its a case of if you generate 250 bhp from 2 litres (not sure) something has to give, your cars slight deficit notwithstanding. Rally cars in the WRC are massively fast with only (by todays standards) 300 bhp but absolutely mega torque figures.

My saab only generates 150 bhp but has 177 pounds feet of torque at 1800 rpm, the Honda generates about 160 pounds feet at 7500 rpm, dont flame me, its only a theory and I havent driven an S2000 (I am sure its superb) but looking at the figures and SB's previous rides I think he's suffering from torque withdrawal symptoms, look at the evidence, 1 tuned Scoob with a turbo, then 2 * grunty V6 repmobiles, followed by a sports car with a high revving race engine for the road, lots of horsepower but the torque right up the rev range.

andytypeR

I met up with a load of scooby owners last night.Took an S2000, We all met in Basildon then headed to Southend ( i looked a bit out of place ) but it was a laugh. Just had an induction kit on it which helps the throttle response



I dont know all the different types of scoobys but most of the cars were very evenly matched what they had in power was matched by the S2000 massive 9000rpm red line i simply didnt need to change gear as often

and i had the top down

LG John

Reliability

I'm just in the door from a trip to carlisle and having driven back on the A702 I was left quite dissapointed. I took a number of sweeping bends never once leaving vtec but she felt slow, strangled and especially breathless between 8-9000rpm. It actually felt like I was breaking her and the 04 demo s2000 I drove was nothing like that as it thrived on revs and charged to the red line. The real dissapointment was the lack of ground covering ability between corners - my MY99 scooby used to charge corners down so quick that if you switched off you'd arrive 1 second before your brain and get a little cought out. The s2000 seemed reluctant to close the distance, reluctant to rev and reluctant to be driven the way the engineers designed it. In the end I dropped into 6th and saved some optimax.

I'm really hopeful that my car is sick (strange as that sounds) and even when the airbox is back on it she is going in for a checkup. If no improvement is found with standard or snorkled induction and she is given the all clear then I may have to put her on the market I'd probably get a vx220 turbo but I have serious practicallity issues with it.

I have a love/hate relationship with the honda at the moment and I won't leave any stone uncovered in dealing with its gremlins before I'd consider moving it on. It doesn't help that for whatever reason every skyrat in Edinburgh loves to **** all over the orange pantwork

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Thought that the Griffs and Chimeras with the Rover lump were pretty well sorted reliability wise, or is that reliable, for a TVR.

Go for the VX220 and get an old Peugeot of some description (406 ?) for a daily smoker. Depends on your finances I suppose.

Is your car still under any kind of warranty ?

LG John

Still got over a year warranty on the S2000 I've blown up two 406s - maybe I should get something else I'm thinking old skool sierra 1.6lx as a daily driver for drifting fun wth no real consequences

Dark Blue Mark

Kenny, it really sounds like somethings up with it compared with my experience. Coming from a very fast STi I find mine very quick.

Andy, is the cone on that one behind the rad? Not good for heat! Also best to keep the filter as close to the manifold as poss IMO.

MB

Dark Blue Mark

PS - Don't give up on it just yet! Where's your nearest rolling road?

MB

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I'm thinking old skool sierra 1.6lx as a daily driver for drifting fun wth no real consequences

Kenny, sorry but 1.6 Sierra's dont drift, they howl, lollop and slide in a most undignified manner, not really enought grunt (73 bhp !) even in the wet to get the back out, may I suggest at least a 2.0 S/GT/XR4 etc.

Can see the appeal of banger motoring but have you noticed (and I am not really this way up) but you will always bump into someone from school or a previous workplace when driving a snotter, never when you have something decent.

foz01

If an HKS induction kit gives 6bhp then i have just wasted thousands!

6 Horses- Bollocks!

LG John

Foz is correct - he has loads of mods which only give 10bhp more peak (more torque though). We keep coming back to it but this car has 120bhp per litre standard. If an exhaust and induction kit gave 20bhp between them then its 130bhp per litre which is pretty highly tuned for a road car!!! If honda could have got the extra power I'm sure they would have and I'm sure they have engineered the car to finely balance power, reliability, noise, emission,etc.

andytypeR

Nope sits under the front light



Had to remove the plastic cover below the light and put a mesh one in.. job done...

andytypeR

Oh and the induction sound is awesome at full chat

foz01

Kenny the car will be at KH on the 12th June for the SIDC day, come along and say hello and will take you out for seom passenger laps, will embarras some "sorted" scoobs

LG John

Planning to be at crail hopefully not breaking my diff that day

foz01

Crail

chris n`nic

I`m not sure if it is the same with the S2000 but I have seen a Civic get 197bhp with the std air filter on...then the air box was disconnected and it ran again (maybe a minute later) and it managed 210bhp! Same rollers same day....the std filter is very restrictive on them and maybe if SB got a nice sealed filter with a good airfeed it may help?

Chris

Dark Blue Mark

I had a straight line battle with an EVO7 last night, from 20 mph off a roundabout. Didn't get punished by any means, but he did get past at about 80 though.

MB