TD05/06 20g - Opinions
05 December 2004, 08:10 PM
#91
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Hi James
As Bob mentioned previously the mapping session was not straight foward!
Need to get a new set of ht leads + spark plugs to eliminate the miss fire. The car runs fine up to 1.2 bar.
Hats off to Bob for spending so long and leaving no stone unturned to get my car running. He finshed on the car after 10 pm. Very grateful for Bob's advice and patience, the guy's a star
. Night time mapping is great fun if not a little scary!
So far very happy with the turbo but haven't been able to use its full potential, looking foward to that.
Thanks Andy for being so patient. Dis you get your car sorted?
Great thread! Loads of info to absorb!
Thanks
Raj
As Bob mentioned previously the mapping session was not straight foward!
Need to get a new set of ht leads + spark plugs to eliminate the miss fire. The car runs fine up to 1.2 bar.
Hats off to Bob for spending so long and leaving no stone unturned to get my car running. He finshed on the car after 10 pm. Very grateful for Bob's advice and patience, the guy's a star
. Night time mapping is great fun if not a little scary!So far very happy with the turbo but haven't been able to use its full potential, looking foward to that.
Thanks Andy for being so patient. Dis you get your car sorted?
Great thread! Loads of info to absorb!
Thanks
Raj
05 December 2004, 09:56 PM
#92
Ecu Specialist
Alan my comments are certainly not aimed at anyone in particular least of all you. Since this thread was active, and I have views having mapped quite of few of both types, I put those views forward.
cheers
bob
cheers
bob
05 December 2004, 10:23 PM
#93
As Pickle says, great tech thread especially to me as there is so much to learn. The best part of modding!
Interested in AlanG's comments to TUK:
63mm inlet tract dia and the stock headers.
I have new Gruppe s v2 headers and helix flex up-pipe ready to replace the flowed Sti headers on my V3 car.
What dia is the stock tract, it seems to change all the way from the filter to the turbo inlet; how do you achieve 63mm (minimum dia?). Why are the std headers 'more applicable' for road use; quicker/progressive spool or turbo coming on stream?(etc)
Great thread, 911
Interested in AlanG's comments to TUK:
63mm inlet tract dia and the stock headers.
I have new Gruppe s v2 headers and helix flex up-pipe ready to replace the flowed Sti headers on my V3 car.
What dia is the stock tract, it seems to change all the way from the filter to the turbo inlet; how do you achieve 63mm (minimum dia?). Why are the std headers 'more applicable' for road use; quicker/progressive spool or turbo coming on stream?(etc)
Great thread, 911
05 December 2004, 10:28 PM
#94
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This is a great thread, but no-one has answered my question a few posts up 
Originally Posted by DreXeL
Running a higher rev limit is something I'd like to do when I get the 6-speed, obviously that would be impossible with my UK engine, but if I can source an STI 2.0 short block would I be able to run an 8k limit with UK top end on the STI short block?
05 December 2004, 10:35 PM
#95
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No IMHO, you want the STi valvetrain as well. Although others are better qualified to talk about shims being thrown out, retainers, valve springs, cam profiles, valve bounce etc.
05 December 2004, 10:43 PM
#96
Originally Posted by DreXeL
This is a great thread, but no-one has answered my question a few posts up
you dont need a 6 speed gearbox to handle a td05/06 turbo as a 5 speed can take it, but if your planning on upping your rev limit , thats a different story
05 December 2004, 11:01 PM
#97
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911
I made and used this... (took the paint off btw, yellow looked pants but it was the only paint colour i had at the time.... 
)
The stock item is variable as you have seen. I just wanted it uniform to minimise disruption to the airflow, plus at the time it was deemed that the std inlet tract was restrictive above 350BHP.
The aftermarket headers on the car gave a significant power increase most noticeable from 4-4500rpm upwards which was great, but with std ported headers on, the car felt livelier lower down in the rpm range where you do most of your driving in everyday circumstances, though you did feel the lack of urgency at the top end the headers gave, hence the comment for everyday use.
Cheers for the reply Bob.
Having looked back on previous runs i've had, the "blip" i referred to in earlier posts only started on the 400+ runs but wasn't noticed by anyone. The only thing i did notice on that day was that the drivetrain losses at the beginning of the dyno runs looked unusually high to me compared to what i had seen before.
However i wasn't too bothered, because i thought it was down to the car having been sitting outside on a cold day for at least half an hour and probably more likely, the best part of an hour before it went on the dyno.
With subsequent runs (and obviously oil temperature rising), the loss figures started tumbling down to what i would have expected to see at this level.
how do you achieve 63mm
)The stock item is variable as you have seen. I just wanted it uniform to minimise disruption to the airflow, plus at the time it was deemed that the std inlet tract was restrictive above 350BHP.
The aftermarket headers on the car gave a significant power increase most noticeable from 4-4500rpm upwards which was great, but with std ported headers on, the car felt livelier lower down in the rpm range where you do most of your driving in everyday circumstances, though you did feel the lack of urgency at the top end the headers gave, hence the comment for everyday use.
Cheers for the reply Bob.
Having looked back on previous runs i've had, the "blip" i referred to in earlier posts only started on the 400+ runs but wasn't noticed by anyone. The only thing i did notice on that day was that the drivetrain losses at the beginning of the dyno runs looked unusually high to me compared to what i had seen before.
However i wasn't too bothered, because i thought it was down to the car having been sitting outside on a cold day for at least half an hour and probably more likely, the best part of an hour before it went on the dyno.
With subsequent runs (and obviously oil temperature rising), the loss figures started tumbling down to what i would have expected to see at this level.
05 December 2004, 11:29 PM
#99
Originally Posted by AlanG
911
I made and used this... (took the paint off btw, yellow looked pants but it was the only paint colour i had at the time.... )
The stock item is variable as you have seen. I just wanted it uniform to minimise disruption to the airflow, plus at the time it was deemed that the std inlet tract was restrictive above 350BHP.
The aftermarket headers on the car gave a significant power increase most noticeable from 4-4500rpm upwards which was great, but with std ported headers on, the car felt livelier lower down in the rpm range where you do most of your driving in everyday circumstances, though you did feel the lack of urgency at the top end the headers gave, hence the comment for everyday use.
Cheers for the reply Bob.
Having looked back on previous runs i've had, the "blip" i referred to in earlier posts only started on the 400+ runs but wasn't noticed by anyone. The only thing i did notice on that day was that the drivetrain losses at the beginning of the dyno runs looked unusually high to me compared to what i had seen before.
However i wasn't too bothered, because i thought it was down to the car having been sitting outside on a cold day for at least half an hour and probably more likely, the best part of an hour before it went on the dyno.
With subsequent runs (and obviously oil temperature rising), the loss figures started tumbling down to what i would have expected to see at this level.
I made and used this... (took the paint off btw, yellow looked pants but it was the only paint colour i had at the time....
)The stock item is variable as you have seen. I just wanted it uniform to minimise disruption to the airflow, plus at the time it was deemed that the std inlet tract was restrictive above 350BHP.
The aftermarket headers on the car gave a significant power increase most noticeable from 4-4500rpm upwards which was great, but with std ported headers on, the car felt livelier lower down in the rpm range where you do most of your driving in everyday circumstances, though you did feel the lack of urgency at the top end the headers gave, hence the comment for everyday use.
Cheers for the reply Bob.
Having looked back on previous runs i've had, the "blip" i referred to in earlier posts only started on the 400+ runs but wasn't noticed by anyone. The only thing i did notice on that day was that the drivetrain losses at the beginning of the dyno runs looked unusually high to me compared to what i had seen before.
However i wasn't too bothered, because i thought it was down to the car having been sitting outside on a cold day for at least half an hour and probably more likely, the best part of an hour before it went on the dyno.
With subsequent runs (and obviously oil temperature rising), the loss figures started tumbling down to what i would have expected to see at this level.
i pity the fool who bought you turbo after seeing these pictures
06 December 2004, 07:02 AM
#105
Alan:
Nice work!
Looks like you did not raise the inlet with spacers to do it.
You could sell some of those I think! (especially the 90 deg /bell mouth bend.)
Guess you could still link to the MAF tube too.
Thanks for the reply.
911
Nice work!
Looks like you did not raise the inlet with spacers to do it.
You could sell some of those I think! (especially the 90 deg /bell mouth bend.)
Guess you could still link to the MAF tube too.
Thanks for the reply.
911
06 December 2004, 07:29 AM
#106
Looking back to comments on boost to 8000rpm:
Hill climbing the car (Sti v3) means quite often holding out to the red line/limiter to get to the braking point for the oncoming bend rather than change gear, very short burst and change down again.
Is there a 'magic' line of Boost level v rpm?
ie 3500 = 1 bar / 4000 = 1.2 / 5000 = 1.3.............7000 = 1.2 / 8000 = 1.1
Or do you map to max-out the boost level you can squeeze from the mods to the engine? My stock Sti has 1.31 max boost (according to the Blitz gauge).
911
Hill climbing the car (Sti v3) means quite often holding out to the red line/limiter to get to the braking point for the oncoming bend rather than change gear, very short burst and change down again.
Is there a 'magic' line of Boost level v rpm?
ie 3500 = 1 bar / 4000 = 1.2 / 5000 = 1.3.............7000 = 1.2 / 8000 = 1.1
Or do you map to max-out the boost level you can squeeze from the mods to the engine? My stock Sti has 1.31 max boost (according to the Blitz gauge).
911
06 December 2004, 10:00 AM
#107
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You could sell some of those I think
I ran 1.4 bar to redline without tapering off. I would suggest speaking to whoever maps it, for their advice, as to whether it's recommended to run peak boost all the way to maximum rpm. Could be dependant on condition of engine.
06 December 2004, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by stevebt
the block wont give you a better rev range you will need the heads for that , plus if your planning on holding boost till 8000rpm can your sti engine handle it you dont need a 6 speed gearbox to handle a td05/06 turbo as a 5 speed can take it, but if your planning on upping your rev limit , thats a different story
you dont need a 6 speed gearbox to handle a td05/06 turbo as a 5 speed can take it, but if your planning on upping your rev limit , thats a different storyThe reason I'm talking about an 8k rev limit is bacause I feel it would suit the characteristics of the TD05/06 -20g and the shorter gearing of a 6-speed.
06 December 2004, 03:52 PM
#109
Originally Posted by DreXeL
But surely my setup would take me to around 350lbft with more boost, way to much for a UK 5-speed???
The reason I'm talking about an 8k rev limit is bacause I feel it would suit the characteristics of the TD05/06 -20g and the shorter gearing of a 6-speed.
The reason I'm talking about an 8k rev limit is bacause I feel it would suit the characteristics of the TD05/06 -20g and the shorter gearing of a 6-speed.
i never said a UK 5 speed , i just said a 5 speed gearbox, dont know what my torque is but i run the same boost as all the peeps who are getting around 400bhp and i still have a 5 speed gearbox and so has jonny gav
ie 3500 = 1 bar / 4000 = 1.2 / 5000 = 1.3.............7000 = 1.2 / 8000 = 1.1
06 December 2004, 04:59 PM
#112
So lets say 1.4 bar on Optimax = ? Torque/bhp?
For engine longevity might be best to taper it off above 7000?
The step from 1 bar@ 3500 to 1.3 at (say) 4500 must be quite a kick?
Should provide an exciting exit from a tight 90 left....
911
For engine longevity might be best to taper it off above 7000?
The step from 1 bar@ 3500 to 1.3 at (say) 4500 must be quite a kick?
Should provide an exciting exit from a tight 90 left....
911
06 December 2004, 07:32 PM
#113
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911, the step will be greater than .3bar over 1000 revs.
As Steve has said, its a case of when he looks at the defi's.
although I only run a piddly little td05 and therefore the figures will be different somewhat, Im making 1 bar at 2850 and 1.3bar by 3150/3200, that gives a real feeling of acceleration to me and I would guess that the 20g would make your kidneys ache when set up well
As Steve has said, its a case of when he looks at the defi's.
although I only run a piddly little td05 and therefore the figures will be different somewhat, Im making 1 bar at 2850 and 1.3bar by 3150/3200, that gives a real feeling of acceleration to me and I would guess that the 20g would make your kidneys ache when set up well
06 December 2004, 07:56 PM
#114
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Steve, from the data logs you get 1bar at 3100 and 1.45 bar at 3650 in 5th on your low (Sti/ra?) gearing.
If you look at the AVC-R settings it's pulling up the boost asap, no surge issues, remind me to show you this on your next visit
Alan Bells car was hitting around 1.5 bar at 3600 the other day on a Dawes (which you can't slug back)
A car I mapped today made 1.4bar at 3400 but that was on std headers which spool slightly faster.
Graham, I'd recommend 1.4 bar as soon as it can get there and hold it to around 7k, tapering it out slightly at the very top. When mapping I can identify if the engine is happy at this level or not and tune accordingly.
The throttle pedal is the best method of power control, not slugging the boost response, "only too much is ever enough"
Andy
If you look at the AVC-R settings it's pulling up the boost asap, no surge issues, remind me to show you this on your next visit
Alan Bells car was hitting around 1.5 bar at 3600 the other day on a Dawes (which you can't slug back)
A car I mapped today made 1.4bar at 3400 but that was on std headers which spool slightly faster.
Graham, I'd recommend 1.4 bar as soon as it can get there and hold it to around 7k, tapering it out slightly at the very top. When mapping I can identify if the engine is happy at this level or not and tune accordingly.
The throttle pedal is the best method of power control, not slugging the boost response, "only too much is ever enough"
Andy
06 December 2004, 08:27 PM
#116
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Lol at Steve. Number of people that have gauges, and then say, i dont look at them (when it matters) 
Looking forward to having a blat in Alans car, soon.
Looking forward to having a blat in Alans car, soon.
06 December 2004, 08:59 PM
#117
Andy is mine good then ??? I know it feels errm GOOD.!! and even better soon? Steven Im sure you will aprove !! But last time I was in yours (passenger) yours was very good put a good smile on my face anyway !!!! OK I will beat you to it (who know me ) that does not happen much !!!
06 December 2004, 10:03 PM
#118
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A Reliable 400bhp solution :)
07 December 2004, 03:33 AM
#120
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Andy what do u think of the GT2871R turbo ?
The following exhaust housings are available: 0.63, 0.64, 0.82, 0.86
not a very "slight" loss in low end torque although maybe a smaller exhaust housing might correct that.
Carlos H.
Turbine
-Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
-Housing: .86 ar
Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 or 48 trim
-Housing: .60 ar
This unit is usually in stock and ships within 1-2 days.
-Wheel: 53.85mm w/ 76 trim
-Housing: .86 ar
Compressor
-Wheel: 71mm w/ 56 or 48 trim
-Housing: .60 ar
This unit is usually in stock and ships within 1-2 days.
The GT2871R makes 400HP in a compact package. This is the newest item to enter the Garrett GT-R line-up and offers big HP and awesome top end power in a smaller package. A great upgrade for GT28RS customers wanting to hit the 400HP mark. The GT2871R comes with the same ultra efficient NS111 turbine wheel coupled with the high flowing 71mm compressor wheel found in the 3071R. As seen in the example application given, actual data shows a gain of 50 - 60 AWHP after 5500 RPM over the GT28RS with a slight loss in low end torque.
although maybe a smaller exhaust housing might correct that.Carlos H.
Last edited by carlos_hiraoka; 07 December 2004 at 03:41 AM.
