madou

Yes, TDO5H-16g

Yes, TD05H-20g from my reading of ScoobyShop advert "TD05/06-20G"

http://shop.scoobynet.co.uk/Product.asp?ProductID=1015

As far as I know 20g

Assorted compressor flow maps

http://www.stealth316.com/2-3s-compflowmaps.htm

No idea, dollar is getting weaker, and I have found Deadbolt good to deal with. They do a range of compressor wheels on both TD05H and TD06H

http://www.deadboltspeed.com/zilla.html

AlanG

Stumbled across this thread.
This all seems so long ago now....

When i had the TMI-141S on the car it gave 387BHP at flywheel at 1.385 bar IIRC. This was 287BHP at wheels on SP's rolling road.
The 20G i had on later (see graph) gave 415BHP and 291 BHP at the wheels on 1.4 bar boost.

On both runs this was on Optimax only, no additives were used in the fuel. As to being a true 400BHP result, who knows now? You can see a very small blip in the coast down run which over the following months became a bigger blip which i'm led to believe was caused by the clutch not releasing properly, which in effect can show a bigger drivetrain loss, hence a higher flywheel figure can be obtained (is this right?).

Either way, both results of "at wheels" figures were very similar.

AlanG

Oops, pic is a bit small. Pic host resized it to suit their pic size limit.. the blip is around 5500rpm ish?

Thanks to David Wallis for being a host for the graph pic a year ago, you can see the bigger version here about 1/2 way down.

FWIW, the engine is still going strong in another car with mods.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

is that with std. internals Alan?
Im at 330 std. map and 348 with a bit of advance (on std. internals) and would be looking for 300 AWHP, which means Ive got to hit 385 CHP.
breathing is well sorted so its the blower I need to concentrate on.
would I need a full step up to 20g (I like the td05's robustness) or would an 18g intermediate suffice?

decisions, decisions

I suppose the deciding factor might well be the fact that a guarantee from Scotland is worth more than a guarantee from the good 'ol US of A

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

it must really be my RA gearbox which kills me on rolling roads as i ran a dt05 turbo at 1.6bar and i only made 320bhp not that im bothered but i often see peeps getting high bhp from this turbo and mine is always well under theirs even though my boost is higher

MorayMackenzie

Hi Alan,

You mention that the peak figures for the TD05/05 20G and the TMI-141S were pretty similar, but how did the turbos behave out on the road?

You and/or Sam mentioned having had some surge issues when using the 20G (triggering off a ported shroud discussion)... I was wondering how the TMI unit behaved in this respect? If the TMI were less prone to compressor surge, I suspect you could bring in the boost a bit sooner and that this would be noticible on the road, IYSWIM.

Regards,

Moray

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

ive got alans turbo on my car and i have no surge issues

MorayMackenzie

Would that be Alan's TMI or 20G unit?

I was interested in Alan's view based on having used both of the units on his car.

RoRu

Raj

Did you find out what the problem was?

Andy

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

its alans 20g and ive got virtually the same spec as his car except mine has a TMIC

MorayMackenzie

Thanks Steve , However, I still look forward to hearing Alan's opinions of how the two units behaved on the same car out on the road. Alan did have some surge issues, as he/sam mentioned in the other thread. I would be interested to know how the TMI behaved in the same conditions, IYSWIM.

john banks

Kabooom?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

is that for my benefit john????? as harvey has already expressed concern that i dont have a FMIC and im basically in the process of picking the right one for me

but i do run 2 water injection systems

john banks

No, it was in reply to Moray's question, "I would be interested to know how the TMI behaved in the same conditions".

I thought you had a new age STi TMIC? Have you measured the charge temps? I wouldn't swap unless there was good reason to, why heat the air going to your coolant rad potentially unnecessarily? You could always program the engine management to react to increasing charge temperatures with the right probe on a Power FC.

R19KET

Steve,

No, it's just John trying to have a pop at me. Yes Alan had a thrust bearing failure on a very early TMI-141S.

This was rectified straight away, when we discovered that the standard thrust bearing couldn't cope with the increased spool up, and increased load.

Most of the turbo specialists in the US will fit an up rated thrust on their high performance TD series turbo's to prevent this happening. Unfortunately, I supplied Alan's turbo before I realised the implication of the TD/Garret combination.

The TD05/6 20G won't suffer from this issue.

Andy,

I would agree. Alan's 4bhp at the wheels loss, on the same fuel, and at slightly less boost was a real bummer........

Mark.

Bob Rawle

Andy they won't be back yet as we diidn't finish till past 10:00. Cylinder 3 had a cracked plug and the other three plugs looked scragged, so it looks like a set of new ht leads and some heat grade 8 plugs will see it right, got it to work up to about 1.2 bar but anyfull throttle misfired badly, thought it was ecu related at first but tried my own link in it and same problem. The third car was sweet as a nut with no problems apart from mapping in the dark and wet. Let me know when you get the intake sorted.

cheers

bob

Bob Rawle

BTW Al I don't doubt that a particular car can make something of 400 with one of these turbos, I just know that to make the claim in general is misleading as there are very few that have. As you know there are far too many variables in both individual cars and turbo's.

bob

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

was wondering as i have no det what so ever yes i do have an STI 7/8/9 whatever intercooler but as siad harvey has already expressed concerns i do not want to change this intercooler . as i think if i add a FMIC it will push my power/torque to a different level and may compromise my gearbox which has been been holding up for sometime would love the 2.5ltr but im sure my gearbox will not

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

LoL Ive a uk 96 with some nice mods , going to well lane end of next week , hope-fully seeing near 400bhp !!! cheers,

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

be lucky if you see 370 with that

DreXeL

I run a TD05/06 -20g on my UK MY97 at 1.3bar, with the following:

Full 2.5" Decat
DR Motorsport GT Spec gen II headers and Up-pipe.
K&N Induction kit.
Forge VTA dump valve.
Greddy Profec e-01 boost controller
Hybrid FMIC.
550 injectors.
Apexi Power FC mapped by Andy F
Walbro fuel pump and regulator.
Boost, oil pressure, oil temp and AFR guages, and of course a knocklink.
Knocklink never gets above second green.

I personally love this turbo, although on my car it's quite slow to spool (but better since I got the cam timing done Andy ), I make 1bar at 4000rpm and full boost about 300rpm later. It holds the boost right up to the redline, and if anything it feels like it pulls even stronger above 5.5k. OK, I could have reached my target of 340ish bhp on a lesser turbo, but the way I see it is I have alot more to come when I fit a 6-speed, as my current setup isn't 'maxed out'.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

Ive got 6 speed , apexi , fmic, 550s, full 3" de-cat, alloy headers, flexi pipe, very large cold air induction, and all mapped by andy f,

911

I'm with Drexel.
Alan: And the end result was...? Which 6 speeder do you have and what was your base engine, Jap or UK?

ps, did you fall asleep as your thread looks unfinished!

911.

alanbell

iTrader: (6)

LoL 911 >> it was past my bedtime!! I have a uk96 car, uk 6 speed , cheers,

T-uk

iirc, alang had the largest bore , straightest inlet pipe possible to the 20g which caused the surge.I think andy recommends a smooth standard sized inlet these days?

I drove alans car with 20g and standard headers and actually rated it as the best 20g UK car I had been in. I really feel that a 20g needs a higher rev limit than the UK's can offer but with the sti gearing alans felt much more balanced. I love the 20g on a sti5/p1 type car for example.

since fitting a 6speed uk box to my UK car I have considered a 20g , as the shorter first 4 gears would suit it but I feel to get the best balance would have meant a jdm box would have been better for 5th and 6th and then I would probably still want a higher rev limit.

andy, any chance of you ever doing an 18g?

Andy.F

Yes John, that is planned for one of my demo cars shortly

Andy

PICKLE

John B I have Alan's TMI on my car. It was fully reconditioned and as new when I bought it from him. Currently on a P1 running around 1.5bar mapped by Bob, and is sweet as a nut! I'm happy, just intersested at the claims some are making with their cars running V similar mods to me but with the 20g instead of the TMI.

I have been informed the TMI will not ultimately give the topend figures of the 20g, but gives maybe a little better midrange/spool up, so swings and roundabouts really to a NON-expert like me

We will see what the final stage is like after next weekend, when Bob has mapped for the 740's just installed.

DreXeL

Running a higher rev limit is something I'd like to do when I get the 6-speed, obviously that would be impossible with my UK engine, but if I can source an STI 2.0 short block would I be able to run an 8k limit with UK UK top end on the STI short block?

AlanG

Peanuts
Those results are on std internals. I’ve never tried an 18G, so not qualified to comment on suitability. Think Moray may be able to help you here but not sure.

Moray

When I first fitted the TMI-141S it worked straight out of the box, no surge issues, just a smooth spool up. It felt very very good IMO, a very smooth unit.

John Banks made comment via email at one point, in respect to how the 20G would spool up quicker and run more boost than the TMI except in the 3100-3900rpm area and substantiated it with data showing differences between his car, Andy’s and mine, but out on the road (bearing in mind we’re talking over a year ago now…), I honestly felt the TMI was a very good road car turbo. It felt “polished” IYSWIM.

My problem with the TMI started when I took the first unit off to change something (I think it was the inlet pipe). That was when I found that the compressor wheel had been rubbing on the housing (see pics). I hadn’t heard anything or felt anything untoward up to that point.





The replacement to that turbo was even more unfortunate however. This one lasted 40 miles before the failure was audible. The downside though was I had to drive the 40 miles back and by the time I got home, it was seized (see pic). You can see the compressor wheel retaining nut is missing in the photograph.




To get me back on the road I had a TD05 unit, which Andy converted to 06 for me and I put that on. Mark sent a brand new replacement, but because of the delicate nature of the whole situation, didn’t inform me what had been learned from the previous units, which was that different thrust bearings had been put in to rectify the previous two failures. When I was told about the uprated thrust bearing issue, I already had the 05/06 on the car and couldn’t be bothered changing over turbos again. That, plus it was more appealing to a buyer selling him a brand new unit as opposed to a secondhand unit made common sense to me.

Bob Rawle
I’m not really sure if you were referring to me or I’ve picked you up wrong in your post, I can only inform others of my experiences and findings and what I posted last year was what was found on the day. At the time, the operator made a comment that taking into account any discrepancies, the car is still a true 400BHP car.
What eventually raised doubts in my mind about the figure was so many months later when on coast down runs on the rollers, this little blip became bigger and bigger. According to the RR operator, this is down to the clutch dragging, so when I looked back at previous graphs, you can see when the blip started, but hadn’t been noticed before. This is why I made the comment on “who knows if it’s a genuine 400BHP”. This is also why i tend to look at "at wheels" figures than flywheel figures for comparisons (am also aware of different drivetrain combinatons also affecting "at wheels" results)
Certainly out on the road I could never feel any drag in the clutch whatsoever, so am unable to say if the clutch was dragging significantly or not to affect the readings. You are correct of course in saying that there are too many variables. Even like for like cars can give quite considerable differences in readings, due to one engine being particularly receptive to mods than others. Hence different maps for each individual car.

T-uk
My inlet was a uniform 63mm from turbo to almost the air filter. I also agree that using std headers on the car with the 20G made a very nice “road package” . Aftermarket headers made more power and torque etc, but overall the car was nicer to drive quickly on the std headers.
On the 63mm inlet and std headers on my car, i never had any surge on the 20G if this helps anyone.
As i said earlier, the TMI gave no surge issues at all that i detected.

PICKLE

This has turned into a great thread! All the self respected 'gods' of the UK community sharing their thoughts, on what must be one of the most popular Turbo Upgrades that people are choosing. Alot of people are now aiming at the 400bhp benchmark, which is as others have stated very accessible to most nowadays.

I hope to not have offended anyone by any comments I've made, just lapping up all the useful info thats being handed out in this thread.

Keep it up guys



Ps.. How did you get on Raj??

PPs.. No surge issues with the TMI on my car either Alan