wrxmania

But why?!?

I don't understand this - what is to be gained by not producing at the side of the road (not that I carry any documents anyway).

Just wondering - what is the thinking behind it?

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Exactly my thinking LiamWR1!
Why antagonise the police officers even more?
It doesn't make sense!


What an incredible assumption.
Where did JohnnyWR1 suggest that the police shouldn't "worry about bank robberies"??

Talk about putting words in someones mouth....



Splitting hairs now.
What you will find is, that in the vast majority (if not all) of fatal RTA's, excessive speed is a contributory factor.
You cannot argue with this, its a fact.


What better way of educationg someone that sticking points on their licence?
If that doesn't deter any future misdemeanors, then I don't know what will....
The police can give talks and demos all day long, but nothing has the same effect on your driving as being 3 points off a ban does!


You think that quoting PACE and getting the cops backs up is going to get you off with the offence?
How naive you are mate.



You are missing the point.
It doesn't matter if its "eleven minutes" or eleven hours.
Your own time is your own time, so why waste ANY of it, making a needless trip to the police station, to make some stupid point?
You obviously get some satisfaction out of it, which I and others find extremely strange.....
Can't understand why anyone would rather waste thier own time going into the police station, than simply getting it over with at the time of the stop......


I doubt it mate. Most people hate the idea of having to go to the police station in their own time.


I agree totally mate, hence my reply to Peanuts above.
Strange indeed.

Johnny WR1

What? That speeding kills more people than bank robbers? It's hardly a generalisation, mate - it's a statistical fact.

Re-read my post. I said, "I assume you're not suggesting that all police officers get re-deployed on traffic duty?" You should be able to infer from that that I would not agree with it either.

Exactly. So now do you see why the police might find it hard to justify spending time walking around the streets trying to deter pick-pockets and shoplifters when thousands of people are being killed every year by poor driving? I'd rather pay 5p more for a T-shirt to cover the losses due to shoplifting then to have my brain and entrails smeared all over the inside of my car. Thanks all the same.

And, since you brought it up, I should point out that any speed in excess of the limit is inappropriate, by definition.

I'm not sure if you could actually be more wrong. You obviously haven't seen the adverts mate. People who get hit at 30 mph usually live. Those that get hit at 40 mph usually die. Not to mention the fact that, due to stopping distances, large numbers of accidents do not occur at all from 30 mph that would have done at 40mph.

Drivers do have education. It's called a driving test. Fact is, a good many drivers deliberately ignore the rules. They know it's wrong, but they do it any way - education cannot bridge that gap. It's the same with any crime - there's no excuse, and that's hardly the government's fault!

Sorry, but it's fun driving fast - that's why we do it, but you gotta pay the piper at some time. Model motorists do not get fined, plain and simple. You may not think a particular law is appropriate, but that don't mean squat. If you want the police to prevent car theft just so you can keep your car to break another law in, well, you need a shot of objectivity. And if you think accidents only happen to other people then you are more dangerous than you think.

It would suit me just fine if all the rules of the road really could be suspended just for me, but they can't. And if you cross the line you should expect to get a tug for it. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, etc.

WRXPete

I don't keep my docs in the car incase of TWOCers, but always keep the photo part of my licence....stuff taking your entitled seven days, if you can't produce anything at the road side and they Hort1 you (normally avoidable if you just act normal and civil) then you have to waste time going to the nearest nick, which nowdays is probably only open office hours...it's hassle!!!

WRXPete

And this is called a coppers nose....your answer doesn't really matter, it's how you say it!!!
I do have to laugh at all this...."i was stopped a few years ago" says it all....if your getting stopped every other week, there must be a reason!!!! If it's once in a while then that's just life. Beleive me, the local sh*ts with no insurance get stopped regularly...i've stuck the same lad on 3 times in a week...he's now disqual, which is cool, cos he's a theiving git and now he knows that just driving to a shop to lift some gear could see him end up in Feltham, whether he nicks anything or not!!!!
And PACE is the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984...it's a right riviting read not a bestseller.....it's governs everything from Stop/Search, interview protocol etc...think of it as a code of conduct, best practice, etc....
And yes...i am a copper, and proud of it. Anyone ever doubt what we do, i invite you to come work a late shift with me!!
And as a footnote...exactly how do you suppose "real" criminals get that 42" plasma screen from your front room to the pawn shop....*hint* it ain't on a bike!!!

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Guess it's cos there is NEVER a guarantee that you will get a producer and a bit less chance of a NIP.

There are rules re: NIPS ( i.e. must get one in 14 days ) for them to be valid, so maybe this holds that up and gives less time to recieve it?

Is a verbal NIP legal? Don't think so.


PACE - isn't that only when they inform you that they are noting your comments "just in case they need to use them in court" and if they didn't use it the comments are invalid in court? Just a bit less formal than a Police Statement.
{Had one of these at work for an environmentla problem ... small but was reported and the EA came in ... }

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

Now that's bad.
They have a duty to remove / arrest people driving cars with no tax .. and MOT/ Insurance when they ask for documents... subject to the provider rules.
For 2 years or more it has been law to declare if the car is on the road without a valid Tax Disc .. Off Road Notification IIRC, ( forget it's formal title ) and that should trigger some police / DVLA enforcement action to actually prosecute these scumbags and get the cars into the crusher.
Illegal to drive without at least 3rd party insurance.

No doubt this would happen if it was you or I who normally pay our bills but forgot the odd one.

See the daily express campaign re: uninsured drivers.

Positive discrimination again, or else underfunding/understaffing of enforcement agencies.

scoobyp1

iTrader: (4)

The police dont want to know when it comes these cars....
The fact they have been bought with money these asylum seekers have gained by working illegally in a local factory and they have no licences, no insurance and no M.O.T's and between 7 of them they all use the 3 cars...
To say it winds me up would be an understatment.... I pay a lot of money every year to ensure i am legal on the road and yet im the one who gets discriminated against cos im a "Young boy in a fast car".
I hold my hand up and admit i have phoned the police to report these immigrants driving the cars to work and the answer i had was - Do i know for sure they have no tax and mot and licences ???
These cars dont have ignition barrels, they start them under the bonnet, one doesnt have a drivers window, they dont even try to cover it, just sits open all night...
Would be a different answer if i said some young boy in Impreza was doing 36mph in a 30 zone... they would be quick enough to send out a car then...

They parked one of these cars over the entrance to the lane at rear of my house, my garage entrance... I called the police and reported it and they said a car would be along to get it moved. This lane is also the entrance to a large community centre. Everyone who used the cetre that day had to park on main rd cos they couldnt get past or they would have to drive up a rough track from the bottom, not recommended for any car... If there was any sort of emergency, fire or accident, then the emergency services would not have got down. The police were called at 830am. By 5pm they had still not been. I was a little wound up by now and had already been to the house twice to tell them to move it but they done nothing. I took it upon myself to move the car. The cars are never locked so i opened door, let off handbrake and pushed it clear. As im doing this the police turn up and caution me for it and warn me i could get prosecuted for doing it again.
I made my feelings perfectly felt about it all and they then muttered some crap about me being the one breaking the law.....

Said car has since been taken and crushed..not by the council or police though.... The local Gypsies took it for £10.

suprabeast

your talking bollocks... thats not driver education at all... and if you were a decent driver then you would understand what i'm talking about

suprabeast

explain these stopping distances to me... and don't quote the highway code because we all know that is complete bollocks. PROPER stopping distances will tell you that a decent car(my car) will stop quicker at 40 than most average cars at 30 or even 20 so how can you make a general statement that driving at 40 is any more dangerous than at 30

suprabeast

yes police should be out on the streets with the publiuc, not chasing round after motorists.... if you cant cross a road properly, thats your problem, no one elses. I see cars driving at 40 and sometimes more down the high street near me, and do you know how i don't get knocked over?? I don't f*cking walk in front of them... its not that hard

LiamWR1

Your comment assumes that you actually have time to hit the brakes! and that your reactions are always swift and that you are not distracted by someone or thing......

Err yes it is... whats the first thing you do after getting a few points?? SLOW DOWN.... it makes you appreciate the fact that you could loose your licence.

So as a self proclaimed 'decent driver' I would love to hear your views on driver education

Nathan L

Wrong.

You just need to make sure the recipient understands.

(Gibson v Dalton 1980 (RTR410))

EwanS

Not sure if all here have heard about Gibson and Dalton - can you please expand ?

Nathan L

It's a stated court case where the court agreed that a verbal NIP was lawful.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

verbal NIP's are totally legal and have caught many people out in court.

as for pace codes, try asking a copper to read pace code 10.C at you.
opening line is the important one (although presently in dispute in the ECHR/HOL and ECJ)
as for naiviety, if you have experience so be it, if you dont then think as you wish.

suprabeast

This exactly proves my point again how everyone suddenly believes that because you are driving slowly or below the speed limit that you are driving well.

Whether its the law or not DRIVING AT 29 MPH EVERYWHERE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD DRIVER

I know plenty of people who drive slowly all the time and they are CR*P. They have no idea of whats going on around them or anything else but because they are below the speed limit... does that make them a good driver??? i think not...

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I have to laugh at you lot!

Firstly, which of the following scenarios would have a greater effect on YOUR driving?

1) You've just received a nice talk from your local traffic officers about stopping distances, fatal accident statistics, how speed kills etc etc.

or

2) You've just got whacked with another 3 points, and you are now just one or two SP30's from a ban?

Give me a break!, we all know that the most effective way of making someone slow down is the fear of losing their licence.

As for me being a decent driver! LMAO.

What do YOU actually know about me SUPRABEAST?

Sweet **** all mate, so save your patronising comments for others.

Thank you.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

No one suggested that a slow driver was a safe driver

Again, you are making statements up from nowhere.

We were referring to driver education, and my argument stands that the best way of "educating" is by prosecuting!

suprabeast

I can see from your replies that you have been convinced by the government or some other fool to believe that points affect peoples driving... they DON'T.

People will drive the same however many points they have... they may drive more carefully for a couple of weeks... thats it

suprabeast

Yeah i made that up... learn to read before you accuse me of making things up

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Its plain logic, if I get an SP30 for example, I am 3 strikes away from a ban. (or 1 strike if you are a new driver).

If you begin totting up, then your overall driving will be heavily influenced by the fear of losing your licence.

Anyone who does not possess this (healthy) fear, is the fool. (i.e. you)


What an utterly naive and blinkered statement.

Perhaps YOU will continue to drive the same, but the majority of people with half a brain will be influenced by the fact that their ice that they are skating on is getting thinner and thinner.

LiamWR1

You are hilarious exactly where did I say that slowing down makes you a good driver????????

I was VERY CLEARLY stating that stopping distances depended on more than your good brakes!!!!

As you appear to be unable to READ MY POSTS may I be so kind as to suggest you require an eye test, and in addition you may not be as observant while driving as you believe.........

ROFPML at your cr*p........

talizman

iTrader: (1)

Show me where someone suggested that a slow driver was a safe driver?

You can't.

talizman

iTrader: (1)

HERE HERE!!!

suprabeast, your cr@p is very amusing for a Wednesday afternoon!

suprabeast

i'm not talking about me... why would i get an sp30?? as i said, i'm a good driver, i'm talking about others...

talizman

iTrader: (1)

I HATE having to spell things out... its like talking to a child.

I NEVER SAID YOU'D GET AN SP30


I was arguing that getting points on your licence has an effect on your driving, since you seem to think it doesn't.

Can't someone use hypothetical examples without folk losing the thread completely......

suprabeast

cant be arsed to argue with you two... i havent got time... oh just realised....school holidays have started...

talizman

iTrader: (1)

suprabeast, you can't be arsed arguing, because you are wrong and your arguments hold less water that a sieve!

Johnny WR1

Since you don't already know them, I doubt you'll understand my explanation of E = mv2. Basically, brakes can only scrub off a certain amount of energy so the faster you are going the longer it takes you to stop. It is not a linear relationship, however - note the v2. That means someone travelling at 40 mph takes 4 times the distance to stop as someone travelling at 20 mph.



Because your car will still take longer to stop from 40 mph than it will from 30 mph. And if you think your car can stop sooner from 40 mph than most average cars can from 20 mph then i don't know where you buy your tyres from. Must be weird driving a 12' wide car?



I suppose you don't **** your nappy or draw on your face either then? OK, so we have established that YOU are not a child (all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding). I imagine that you don't **** your leg and **** on lamposts, or go around sniffing dog's ***** either? OK, so you are not someone's pet. (Or do you do those things?)

If you don't realise that it's nicer to be able to miss a child than to smash into him/her and smugly explain to the bereaved parents that, actually, it was the child's fault, then you don't got no business being on the road bubba. That's why I don't have a concientious objection to speed limit enforcement (much as it bugs the crap outta me when I want to put my foot down).