Frank,

2 years ago Rigolli were in the low 10s, and it was special. But their recipe for this was a stong as **** short motor, big head studs, copper head gaskets, standard heads, cams and headers with a huge T series turbo and about 100 shot of nitrous. They ran as much as 45psi to get those times.

Now we are expective to get into the 10s with similar short motors but much more development of the breathing, and only 25psi of boost without nitrous.

Ultimately the Rigolis did the times the only way they knew at the time, but times have changed.

Why don't you ask them about the engines that didn't survive...

Paul

 

Congrats David et al! We'll nip over and see you sometime

 

The Rigoli record car is just over 1100kgs so the have not gone for lightness. Although they are working on a Cromoly front sub-frame at the moment to get more weight out.

They do have a Subaru that weighs 812kgs - the Gold one on their website.

The rumour in Oz from various sources is that the record car is running around 1100bhp.

Without NOS it runs 550bhp at the wheels - and they are using a lot of NOS. With an autobox, the guesstimate PAF is probably 700bhp.

Paul is correct - they use relatively small displacement - that can rev to 9,500rpm and a lot of boost and a lot of NOS.

As a reference, Norris got into the mid-10s with a claimed 587bhp. Interestingly when he claimed 800bhp plus he got the same sort of times, although I believe that he is now into the lower tens.

Another reference is a 4x4 Cossie running and Ahmed Bayoo (sp ?) set up with 540bhp got an 11.1s at the pod when I was last there.

David

 

David, wind the boost up, get some stickies on and squirt some gas in for TOTBII. Could be quite an exciting summer

Conrad

 

Interesting stuff from David and Paul

David - cant you get yours to rev to 9500rpm? I saw a link on a website to uprate the 2.5 to this rev limit?

I take it you arent using Nitrous as your quite happy with yours now?

 

david doesnt use nitrous but I will be doing..

I also intend to rev a little higher

 

Think Norris is now on about 10.2 for the 1/4 mile

He only uses 1/2 boost in the 1st 2 gears, to control wheelspin, apparently the next stage of development it to do some full bore/boost lauches if half the stuff on the MLR is to be believed.

Car also runs a standard gearbox which has got to be a huuuuuuuge hinderance compared to a sequential etc.

 

I think the important thing to note, is that just having lots of power doesn't work. The autobox route allows much smoother power delivery, although it adds weight and increases losses, not to mention creating non-ideal ratios for the high terminals invovled.

You look at Kevin Sharpe's cossie though, weighing over 1300kg, and it's done something like a 10.5 (roughly) at brunters. It's supposed to have only 550hp or so with no NOS. This maybe the car that David Wallis refers to with 11.1, dunno.

By getting a more useable power band, you don't need such violent launches, which means better traction, reduced lag means faster pickup between gears. All these things count in only 10 seconds. Gearbox is another limiting factor, as you simply spend so much time changing gear with a synchro box.

The whole package is what counts.

Paul

 

i never said 11.1 rannoch did..

 

sorry, too many people signing their threads 'David' !

I haven't seen anything to say if either of the Rigoli outfits used LSDs front or rear, and what they did on the centre diff for manual cars.

Paul

 

Kev Sharpe's Escos has a 7 speed sequential gearbox which makes a huge difference to it's times

There was someone on the GTR site that though it was worth the thick end of a second in time which is a huge amount in drag racing

 

I agree with C - Kevin probably has less power than the Trout-mobile - 500PAF was what I had heard - but he does have a very groovy gearbox which probably costs more than my whole project!

My challenges remain the drivetrain - issue one is whether it survives, issue two is laggy manual shifts. I can get a Rigoli autobox - but then it becomes a pure drag car which was not the objective.

David

 

He likes to dabble with the laughing gas as well I think?

You should be able to solve transmission issues with an OS Gilken sequential gearbox though

The trout mobile sounds scary! it was fast enough last time I went in it

 

David - do you have a full underbonnet shot you're prepared to release yet? My builder just shakes his head at all the engine bays I've shown him so far, not at the work quality, but the finishing. I desperately want something he'll be impressed by....at the very least, it'll mean mine has to look pukka

Thanks, Richard

 

 

Dowser,

I have an underbonnet shot in the original projects thread - but not one I would be proud of! We have not done the hosing properly yet as we are waiting to fit a surge tank.

When it is all done properly and everything is tidied up I will post a shot.

David

 

PS C...the car is now faster at 0.7bar than it was before at full chat...so yes it feels quite brisk!!!!

 

Are you planning on going to ScoobyShootout?

Would be good to see it go

Nearly rivalling me in project length too

 

I am on the reserve list for Scooby Shoot Out - I didn't realise entries had opened never mind closed!!!!!

I will be there come what may - so will hopefully get a run

David

 

Kevin says it isnt a sequential box. Its a 7spd dog box, std H pattern shift.
I think he also suggests around 600bhp with Gas.

Either way, it is the fastest Escort in the UK at present, and he was still using standard road tyres. Not R specials. 10.39 @ 142mph.

Pretty cool, even for an Escort.

 

But Davids car has even more power than that old 2.0 Ford Transit hybrid engine, he said so himself The Escort is a heavy brute too, so surely the scoob must go even faster, no ?

Andy

 

Who knows really. Lots of cars claim big numbers, yet dont always perform the same on the road or track.
I guess that yes, davids car should go faster, but will it ? Only time will tell.

I think your own car is an example Andy, there are other cars around with more power, but how many were actually proven faster ? Although, your car would also have been lighter than most.

Only one way to settle it. Get down to the strip and get some times. No point talkin about it, the Cossies are smokin the Subarus from all angles. Even Steve Scotts Focus Cossie runs 10.9@132 and its 2wd!!.

If the Subarus dont get their act together soon, the Fords are going to embarass you all at TOTB3. low 11's are needed, along with a few 10's

 

Andy,

Rannoch wasn't aware that Kevin's 500bhp figure didn't include nitrous, and he certainly wouldn't claim to have anywhere near 600bhp !!! But then, we know that

It would be great if he could get into the 10's, but I think he'll struggle without a dog box.

Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Mark.

 

Think the same was mentioned last year but nothing happened. Theres always a lot of big talk before the event followed by even bigger excuses after.

That's not restricted to Fords of course either

 

ROTFLMAO!

Hopefully this year there should be some better scoobs up there

 

Quote Possum on 22b Quote Mark on Scoobynet Around 590 but no where near 600 No wonder people get confused

Andy

 

Andy,

<Grin> 590bhp was based on an "extrapolated" RR figure, which would be optomistic, based on the bench dyno 555bhp he "actually" got.

"Quoting" is fine, but please use them in context

IIRC, you said that an engine dyno figure, would be very optomistic, once the engine was back in the car, with a full exhaust fitted, and who am I to disagree with you !

Anyway, so far, Rannoch only has a RR "proven" 425bhp ! Don't you just love "proven" figures

Mark.

 

Andy,

the context of what I actually said was to extrapolate the RR figures.

On the bench dyno at 1bar my car produced 396bhp. On the RR it produced 425.8bhp. This is an improvement/overread of just over 7%.

On that basis my 555bhp bench figure becomes a hypothetical 595bhp - but it is very hypothetical as the car could not run at anything over 1bar without slipping all the way to the top end.

Anyway the only proof will be in actually running on the black dyno. Kevin's car is clearly well set up, with the right gearbox and has more rubber as standard than a Scoob (Escort Cossies have wider wheels!).

I have also seen Sapphires well into the 500bhp region not break into 10s at Santa Pod - so the only way I will find out is to do it.

Anything in the interim is a waste of hot air and electrons

Rannoch

PS Anyone want to open a book on my drivetrain lasting the day?

 

Yeah I'll start the bid...

£1 says it doesnt....

Conrad

 

£1 on the second 1/4 mile launch