MONKEYmark

hi people
just signed up to reply.

i have a j spec supra auto and have raced lots of cars, beat a few scoobies off the line beat evo 6 and 7 pulsar gtirs and cossies. i dont know where you got your information about jap cars having 380cc injectors?? they are 440cc. the 280bhp dont bother me as its not a be all and end all. its what its like on the road that matters to me. i dont know what power my car is but dont matter to me.
they are strong cars and tend not to break every week like cossies seem to do. a mates got a saph cossie and its been nothing but trouble bottom end going he has had lots of things go wrong with it and its only on a stage 1.
how many people will keep a car standard? the supra is ok in standard form but decat it put an exhaust on and it is a different car alltogether.
they dont do that well off the line but when they going the have such a great midrange, they keep pulling up to 140+

what does your cossie put out power wise and what 1/4 times you done?
mates stage one cossie ran a 14.1 and a mates stage 3 cossie ran a 13.4

then there is a cossie at york with 400bhp that did a 18 second 1/4

i have done a 12.5 @ 114mph in supra automatic with jap 440cc injectors and standard turbos. they are a heavy car but they aint too bad.

would like to see what sort of time yours runs or is it a show n shine car?
you have a mk3 supa turbo, so did i too, was standard car

to thread starter go test drive a supra it dont cost anything. it might not be the car for you.

have fun

trollhunter

You guys make me die , you keep harping on about BHP , 427 Cosworth if you really knew what you were on about you would notice that in the NZ link you sent the '280 hp' j-spec puts out more torque (not talk, thats what cosworth owners do when they are not changing head gaskets)than the higher powered uk spec , if you want rear wheel figures then how about rear hub figures from thors dyno , my car has stock ceramic turbos and fueling mods and recorded 379 RHHP and 404 ft lb of torque at the hubs , and as far as performance goes the yanks are running low 11 1/4's on stock turbos and no nos with BPU mods and drag radials , tell me what you think smokey boy im off to blow the doors off some corsas and novas

GavinL

What a pointless and misinformed thread all round


I'm embarrassed to be a Supra owner

WRX_280

He's not a Cossie owner he owns a Cavalier .

What more proof do you want? You are getting proof direct of Supra owners.

So now we have ALL this REAL LIFE proof about JSpec Supras yet you still just read and believe. Do you believe what "The Sun" says too

Can someone just knockup a webpage with an excel spreadsheet showing 80000RWHP and right "Stock Supra Dyno" below it. Maybe he'll believe us then

[Edited by WRX_280 - 12/20/2003 10:40:49 AM]

Cosworth427

You must have some strange definintion of the word "proof". All I see is a bunch of newbies saying or shall I say once again - CLAIMING "Yeah, but I beat a 300 HP Cossie, M3, blah blah with my standard J-spec."

Claims NOT proof!

"Proofs" like that are no more valuable than the paper you use to wipe your ***.

Look at this newbie right here...

... Yes, the J-spec was more about DRIVABILITY and RESPONSE rather than outright performance. Peak torque occurs sooner than the Euro/US spec cars and more torque at that peak. The J-spec wasnt meant to be as quick as the export models, since the competition and the driving preferences of the Japanese differed to those at the west.

n00b.

TRANSLATION: Oh I'm pissed off because I thought Supras were 1000 BHP. Damn you guys for shattering my dreams.

Thorin

Hah what a load of crap, it's unfortunate that Mr Cosworth is a supra owner gives the rest of us a bad name. Get your head out of your own **** old chap.

I have seen many standard UK and J-Spec supra's on the dyno. The UK's seem right on the money, ~320bhp. The J-Specs do seem slightly lower at around 310bhp from what I have seen, but certainly higher than the "280bhp limit". As already stated J-spec's are lighter, faster spooling turbo's, and a different diff. I've raced standard UK's when I was standard too and every time there was ~0.1 seconds or less between us (incidently, me being the fastest). Standard Supe's whether UK/US/Euro/Jap, I have seen do mid 13's over the quarter mile. Mine currently at ~400bhp has done 13.12 when not in the best of conditions and with a small boost leak, and I still know it was capable of high 12's (I would have gotten high 12's last time at york too if it weren't for frying my clutch). There is no performance difference in times between UK and Jap until you get over 140mph, then the UK spec's should have the slight advantage. Up until then I'd actually say the J-Spec probably has the advantage.

To the original poster, it's up to you who you choose to believe. People who own, race, and modify mkiv's? Or someone who doesn't, but has read and posted a lot of misinformation on the internet?

I'd advice you to drive several Supra's and see which you prefer, the only real advantage of the UK spec cars is that insuring them is usually much cheaper. Don't rule out automatic's either, the Supra's autobox is a fantastic bit of kit and unlike most other autoboxes. Where abouts in the country are you? You should come along to a meet and have a chat one day. Feel free to come along and ask any questions you might have on our board www.mkivsupra.net/bbs

Michael.

Brit_in_Japan

Gentlemen

I will admit to knowing virtually nothing about Supra's, but let me tell you a little about Japan....

The is a gentlemen's agreement here in Japan which limits maximum power to 280PS. That is, 280PS when it leaves the factory. This agreement was adhered to for years until a certain Skyline was produced which broke this agreement.

However, as we all know, these performance cars are engineered to develop more than 280PS. In other words they are artificially limited to 280PS when they leave the factory. When your average Japanese car enthusiast buys a car like a Supra or a Impreza, the first thing they will do is start upgrading, fitting larger diameter exhausts, airfilter, dump valves, handling kits, brakes etc. Often these parts are OEM designed, retailed through the dealer networks and fitted by dealers before the customer ever sits in his new car.

Also in Japan there is an agreement that cars are speed limited, which approximates to 112mph top speed. So owners will often have this removed and may have a remap at the same time.

So whilst the cars are officially listed as producing 280PS, between the factory gate and being driven off the forecourt they have already been upgraded and output more power. What power they have depends on what mods have been done.

The same crazy rules also extend to motorbikes. There is a limit of 100PS for motorbikes. So bikes which output more than this in standard form cannot be sold in Japan by the manufacturers. Of course there are plenty of the latest and most powerful Kawasaki's, Suzuki's etc on the roads here, but the bikes have to be re-imported. It just the way things are here.

HTH
Brit_in_Japan

P.S. When I bought my used WRX Wagon, I could not find a single unmodified example !

Tom Machin

Hey dudes, not replying to a letter in particular but, when ya get the car. Find an airfield, a crap pair of tyres, put them on the back and I think you can guess the rest!LOL!!!

Beef

Just in case you missed it first time.

Powergraph: mods are bleed valve and decat. That's it. Torque drop off is due to boost drop because of the bleed valve not being able to keep up, and boost sinking from approx 1.1bar to 0.9bar or less. This was on a car with a shagged IC, on one of the hottest days of the year.

[Edited by Beef - 12/20/2003 4:41:08 PM]

WRX_280

>>"Proofs" like that are no more valuable than the paper you use to wipe your ***.<<

I use bog roll

You must have a lot of paper shoved up your bum then

Cosworth427

Bleed valve? Is that a DIY manual boost controller you fitted there?

Cosworth427

Mad Gypsy

I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but......In the last month I have beasted two MK4 Supras, admitedly in the wet, but still, it wasn't even competitive.
It seems to be implied that Supras are faster than ALL scoobs??
I noticed a couple of you Supra owners on here live in Bournemouth. Was it you? A black MK4 from the wessex way up to Branksome? About a month ago, sat night/sun morning 1:00am(ish) Not only did you get your *** kicked in a straight line, you also got demolished on 'Frizzell' roundabout where your back end came out a few times. You couldn't keep the back end under control going in a straight line!
Another MK4 Supra (red) going up Dorset Way, you were still spinning upto about 50mph And you wouldn't pull over for what was obviously a faster car.

I was in a black STi Type R (310bhp ) Not that you would admit it!
The black Supra had THE loudest dump valve ever! The black one was a nice looking car I have to admit. Still got it's *** kicked though

trollhunter

Mad gypsy , dont deny that you might well have owned a couple of sups , especially if it was wet but that brings driver ability into play , im more at home on a bike than in a car so thats not decisive , the scooby is without doubt an awesome car (kin ugly, but awesome) try racing someone like Terry Saunders and see how you fair or one of the latest F1 drivers whos own car is a ....Supra .

Cosworth you are an **** ..... The new mycroft in fact , my mate had a calibre 4x4 turbo said it was one of the best cars hed had (he now drives GT 4's etc ) when it wasnt in the dealers which was 80% of the time he owned it , face it you have an underpowered and badly built dustbin , if they were that good id sell my sup and buy myself 6 or 7

Thorin

Mad Gypsy, "obviously faster car"? How so? You said the Supra was still spinning it's wheels at 50mph, I'd say try racing him in the dry

Mad Gypsy

He was still spinning at 50mph and I was on half throtle.
I'd be more than happy to race him in the dry. If I can keep up with M3's (e46) in the dry no problem, then I should imagine a Supra would be not much different dry or not.

Don't forget, I don't drive a standard scoob. My Type R weighs only 1260kg with 310bhp + 293lb/ft. 0-60 takes 4.3 seconds more than a match for a Supra.

At BEST, a Supra will keep up with me in the dry, in the wet it will get soundly thrashed EVERY time. That tells you which is the more accomplished performance car for ALL conditions, not just straight line, bone dry tarmac.

Having said all that, I do like Supra's. I don't much like them from the front, but they look awesome from the back .

Thorin

Gypsy, love type R's, a mate sold his supra and bought one and it's a very nice example. I still say that from a roll (in the dry at least! ) a standard supra *should* win. He certainly said it wasn't as fast as his mildly modified supra.

It's nice to be able to just dump the clutch from 5500 revs and take off though, can't do that in the supra (not without drag radials anyway )

[Edited by Thorin - 12/20/2003 11:16:01 PM]

Mad Gypsy

I'm sure in the goodness of time, I'll come up against one in the dry. There are quite a few round this way. What do they weigh? bhp/ton? I should imagine they are down on bhp/ton compared to my Type R, Thats why I just can't see a Supra going past me.
If it had been even slightly close in the wet, I would say you have an argument for the Supra, but, it really was a one sided thrashing.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

16vmarc

What is the true 0-60 of a Supra TT? ive seen it range from 4.6 to an unbelievable 6.6!!!!!!

WRX_280

Type-Rs are damn quick. I ran into one while back on the A46 on my way to work (A46 Longbridge Island to TBR), a piece of stretch i know with my eyes closed. I was quite suprised how he kept with me through some of the roundabout, but on the long sweeping bends i was putting bus lengths on him. This was in damp conditions.

Was in the MR2 Tubby with some 104RON left over - 367BHP/355lb-ft

Bottomline, you win some you lose some.

WRX_280

>>Thats why I just can't see a Supra going past me.<<

Try doing it from a roll. Believe you me, it'll be a totally different story.

Thorin

Gypsy, ~1430kgs for the j-spec I think, and 310bhp/325lbft+

A lot less on transmission losses though

Edit: oh and 5.0 0-60, but it's the in gear acceleration that obliterates most cars, I think 40-70 is 3 seconds dead or something like that.

[Edited by Thorin - 12/21/2003 12:15:37 AM]

Beef

Not I, the previous owner, but yes. Your point?

trollhunter

Look at this newbie right here


Wow cosworth your a real 'old' hand at this with 270 odd posts , what are you doing on a scooby board anyway you should be over on the vauxhall board with all the other cab drivers and nova boys bragging about how you blew away a couple of supras and skylines in yer mega power vauxhalls , i only came to this bbs to learn a little about scoobys (which i can do without posting) and reply to dipsticks like you and Mycrutch who come on to stir things up , BTW my Dyno figures were on Thors new chassis dynamometer (only about £75,000) and the same as the one Abbey motorsport use still it was prob way out , you could run your dustbin on it as it does 4wd but it only measures upto 1600hp will that be enough ????

Newbie

Mad Gypsy

It's all very well saying "Try it from a rolloing start" etc. But all I can do is race the Supras that I see and that want to play, and so far it's 2-0 to me Besides, the race with the black Supra was from a rolling start (in the wet) I caught up, and at the roundabout I was all over him and overtook him on a straight.
We both then had to slow down for a speed camera (50 limit) I dropped into 2nd at 40/45mph (has did he, I could hear the D/V) and while he was snaking around, I was pulling CLEARLY away.
We then had a start from the lights which are at the start of the roundabout (huge roundabout) and he got wasted, (he was on my left and had the straighter line) by the time I was exiting the roundabout I was AT LEAST 20 cars length in front.

The chances of seeing one in the DRY between now and June is slim, so it'll have to be more pastings for Supras I'm afraid.

Anyhow, most of you talk like a Supra would leave me in it's wake in the dry! With the same bhp, a better 0-60 time, a near 200kg weight advantage and two Supra scalps already under my belt, you can see why I'm a little skeptical.

Like I've already said, I like Supras, I'm just going on what HAS HAPPENED and not on your theories and predictions of future encounters.

Beef

Heh - it's like that Cossie bloke - everyone concentrates on power when it's *torque* that counts.

Talking of that, someone's gone very quiet since I posted my power graph. Wonder what he's going to come back with. He's also *still* avoided the issue of the shorter diff on J's. Maybe now's a bad time to mention the SZ that can do a 14.5s 1/4, on street tyres/fuel/trim/blah blah, and as that's a non-turbo and the turbo's are indisputably more powerful...

WRX_280

Fair doos "Mad Gypsy"...i wasn't trying to come a cross as an a$$ or anything

There aren't hardly no quick Scoobies around my area (Coventry) ... know of any? Put me in touch with 'em?

Seems you have a quick car there matey

Best Wishes...

WRX_280

Torque does count, but BHP is VERY important too. The Golf GTTDi's are 150BHP odd and something like 210lb-ft. This is on par with a standard UK spec scoob. Does it make the GTTDi a quicker car. Yes and know. Quick for a diesel but still slow compared to a Scoob.

Torque is important, but power is the function which'll carry your torque longer through the rev range.

Cheers

scooby_si

WRX_280 careful m8 i help organise the local Cov area scooby meets still & it'd be nice to have you come along we're a friendly bunch & we get plenty of regulars in non scoobs M5's, evo's, supras & lots of other lush stuff in the past, me soon to be in the non scoob bunch well OK i already am but a 1.8 mondeo gets pasrked in corner lol
anyway be carefull there is one guy with 430 odd BHP in his STi7 yes proven blah blah go see the thread in projects section! lol & various other nice scoobs including a couple of meaty 22B's type R's, P1's etc etc etc plenty of nice metal in summary but as i say we're a friendly bunch who yes do enjoy winding each other up as well i mean i've spent the last 4 months winding everyone up by not telling em wot i'm getting so dont be shy
Si

Thorin

Gypsy yep no worries, I'd always favour a scoob in the wet

You ever done any quarter mile runs? You should come along to a drag racing day or something next year. Can't say I've raced a type R yet (I'll have to goad my mate into it ) but I've raced plenty of other scoobs without too many problems. (also raced a wagon thing a few times that completely blew me away however! serious money spent on that thing).