RLE

iTrader: (2)

I think I got all that.....

WRX280

Cosworth 427 = troll. If i remember correctly he owns a Cavalier...LOL LOL LOL! Ya poof

FYI, i've seen stock JSpec Supras dyno 300 at the wheels.

Stop your bull and come to the real world...cossie dreamer

ScoobyJawa

Aw - leave him alone, he's giving us all a right laff with is useless info!!! LMAO!

Restricted to 280 due to an agreement - ROTFLMFAO!!! Yeah right mate, like all the Jap cars only put that figure out!! You really are delusional And what gave the Skylines rights over anything else to be exonerated from that agreement - ok for one but not another? LOL!

The dynos I'm referring to do measure ATW, then extrapolated for fly, but the wheel figures are right, as WRX says, I've seen them higher too.

Experienced test drivers - ROTFLMFAO you are soooooooo funny!!

You need to get out more, seems you believe everything you read - LMAO! Do you read the Sun too?

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 12/19/2003 10:05:12 AM]

ScoobyJawa

Not they don't run as much bhp, but they aren't 280 v 326. The UK spec is 326, the JSpecs anything between 310-320 normally. And yes they do run the same times, UK's are heavier with slower spooling turbos.

ScoobyJawa

Wrong again you really know loads about Supras The VVTI car is 1998 on, not just 1998, and was built in Japan until 2002. And no it wasn't 350bhp It was 15-20bhp more powerful than the older JSpec according to Toyota, putting it more it more in line with the UK cars, only whenever all the different variations have been on dyno there's rarely been any difference. Oh, and the VVTi are harder/more expensive to tune than the earlier cars. You also didn't mention the other key difference 1998 on are Tiptronic - or did you not know that either?

How do you know what they've done before they come over - the Japs aren't secretive and always tell the auctions whats been done, and most companies inspect them when they come over to make sure its not been fiddled with.

Right - think I've corrected all your misinformation, again

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 12/19/2003 10:06:53 AM]

ScoobyJawa

And to round off, from another member:

axle

Cosworth,

1. They are 440cc on J-spec, and 550cc on UK spec.
2. My one (j-spec) had 345RWHP and was a manual - which equated to a best guess of 393 crank HP.
3. This was using less than £1000 worth of exhaust (2x decat pipe and 1x Super Drager (which meant it sounded better then a gei Cosworth/Cav).
4. It didn't break down, even running 1.4bar.
5. It cruised effortlessly
6. It out dragged a Ferrari 360. And beat a Ferrari 355 at the SXOC's Top Speed Challenge (featured in Jap Perf Mag last year)
7. It didn't get embarrased by a rollon with an Ultima Can-Am.
8. Those that I know of that have been crashed have protected their occupants from serious harm.
9. They look good (compared to a Ford or Vaux **** heap!)
10. How simple you are...do you REALLY think they make only 280bhp. What is this magic wand you use to limit the car to 280bhp? Or is it slightly possible that they made an attempt to hit 280bhp...but opps might of failed. Its a figure they use to make the big wigs happy and its part of the Press Release and will be what Toyota etc will CLAIM! A Claim is NOT FACT! And why would Skylines be except from this agreement? They wern't however most people who pay attention will have noticed that they (Nissan, Toyota, Honda) realise they are restricting their sales as their cars are believed to not be fast enough...so they are steadily starting to ignore the old agreement to show the world what they are really capable of. The next GTR-35 should be about the 450PS mark and the replacement Supra (which won't be a Supra as such AFAIK) will be a 400PS (but lighter than the Skyline).
11. A Supra's stock bottom end will handle 500hp RELIABLY if you look after it...and you can hit that sort of power with hybrid turbo's and enough fuel. (£3-5k depending on the extra's you fit) how many of your wonderful Cossie's can claim a similar RELIABLE amount of power with just 5k spent?
12. The JDM version is lighter than the EURO/US one...this with the faster spooling turbo's makes the JDM more responsive/nimble and more than a match in a drag race, infact I've out run a hybrid equipped UK car in a drag race at SantaPod on more than 1 occasion.
13. Let me get your Coat.
14. I'll try to make sure the door hits you on the way out!

Hope some of that info helps RLE.

Regards

Axle

Cosworth427

Yet again, so you claim...

Oh yes, the Japanese is an honourable race! Therefore they MUST tell the aution every single detail they know & and dont know about the car right? I mean all Japanese Supra drivers MUST know about increasing boost and the differences in power between a stock and an aftermarket exhaust system. I bet they all drive at 200 MPH on the Japanese highways too?


Hence "agreement" and not a law. Nissan has been underating their cars for over a decade starting with the 300Z. The R33 and R34 were "rated" 280 HP regardless of whether they were sold in the JDM or foreign markets. The difference is the performance disproves the rated power, unlike the J-Spec Supra which performed *as it should*.

The J-spec Supra was a direct answer to the 300Z, and some would say the BMW M3 of the time. It wasnt about top end power, and more about drivability. Twin ceramic turbochargers and low lift camshafts prove a testiment towards usable torque rather than high RPM grunt.

Whilst in Europe and America (their biggest market) - competition from the Corvette ZR1, Porsche 928 GTS, Ferrari F348 and the like meant engine response took 2nd place all out performance. For the export specification Supra, the lead engineer took these cars into mind.

Again, you still seem to have this faith in mythical J-spec poopras. I can tell you for a FACT that the J-spec 2JZ uses smaller injectors, lower lift cams and have the same boost and displacement. Do you have *any* idea what effect the two differences between the J-spec and Euro spec engines make in power ???

Have you ever worked on a Turbo-charged inline-6 with fuel injection before? Have you ever realised the relationship between boost and HP?? Have you ever realised the relationship between required injector size and maximum power?? Have you ever realised that the relationship of valve lift & RPM has towards maximum power?

LOL, go put some huge dragon stickers on your Supra, you fanboy. I'm sure your mates down the local pub will enjoy your sudden facination towards Japan and their magical cars.

Cosworth427

Ooh, 2 for the price of 1!

To quote myself again...

Cosworth427

Here you go JDM fanboys...

http://mkiv.supras.org.nz/specs.htm

Engine specs, and rolling road results AT THE WHEELS.

Read it and weep!

ScoobyJawa

Yes I do, coz I know. And if you knew anything you'd know all dynos (except bench) take the figure ATW as thats whats used to calculate the fly using the software, but the ATW figure is still sound.

Not just Nissan

Oh right yet its only about 5mph slower top end than the UK spec. 170+ mph, oh yeah thats soooo slow

Yes Jspecs have smaller injectors but what relevance is that when they still have enough duty cycle for 400bhp, only needing an upgrade for bigger power, all it means is the UK can be tuned a bit more first before requiring replacements.

Did you know its actually quite possible for two different size of injectors running different duty cycle to produce similar power at similar boost.

Its a fact, that at drag days/track days the Supra clubs hold there is nothing in it at all between JSpec/UK as you can see with your own eyes rather than what you read on the Nissan forums (as that must be where you get your misguided info from), but then you wouldn't know that as you don't own one and haven't been.

Yes I have worked on one - I OWN one, unlike you

You know soooooooo much about Supra's you must be one of the most respected Supra tuners in the country? You're not? Oh, I wonder why that is?

Unlike the magical cars from Vaux and Ford - bwaaaaaahahaha, ugly dated taxi looking rusting pap.

ScoobyJawa

from your link:

Japanese MKIV:

Injectors - 430 cc

So your link straight away has shown your posts as incorrect - LMAO
And I get no worse mileage than a UK car - weird, go figure?!?!?!

And from the same site - what happened to your 350bhp VVTI car? Its the same according to that link, just higher torque - so again you are proved wrong - LMAO!

And again from that site 400m (eg a quarter mile ) in 13.8 so again your over 14sec is wrong

As for dyno results, countrys calculate it diff, hence americans always being so high, but I'll believe the many dyno runs at different places I've seen in the UK thanks.

[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 12/19/2003 11:13:51 AM]

SteveW2

Nice site btw all you Sccob owners. Sorry to jump in on your turf from the Supra BBS but this Cosworth 427 cracks me up. Your are a complete gay, and you should **** off back to your ricer friends with your PECO big bore exhausts and your flamer kits.

Your Cavalier is a big hepa of ****e and have no idea what kind of bollocoks are eminating from your gay head!

The point is 280 BHP/330 BHP or 400BHP I will always destroy your sorry *** in my Supra and look good doing it. Even if I only had 150 BHP I would rather own a Supra as opposed to your common chunk of ****E!!!

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Cheers Axle. Very informative. Guess I've become a bit confused with all this injector talk etc. I only push a pen for a living!!!

Suppose the bottom line is if I take the plunge and buy a Supra I will be getting a faster/ better car in pretty much every respect (apart from handling possibly) and I wont regret selling my Subaru?

I will sign up to the Supra site and get some background before I commit but whats the best model to look out for? I really want a manual and it cant be older than a 98. UK or Jap?

SteveW2

Cool. It cuts out swear words

RLE

iTrader: (2)

LOL-Nice first post Steve.

SteveW2

RLE - I won't deny that forums may be slightly biased towards their cars but form what I have of this forum and the Supra forum most of the information you get is very helpful and reliable.

The best thing would be to spend a day going around and having a drive in a few of these cars and decide for yourseld what feels best.

ScoobyJawa

In that case mate JSpec it is UK's only were sold up to 95, so if you want a 98 or newer its a VVTI Tiptronic JSpec for you, nice cars too, but as stated cost a bit more to tune but will still give a good result from an exhaust etc

I drove a Skyline and Supra when I was looking, so definately drive both. While the Sky was good, it didn't feel much different to my scoob except being bigger. The Supra did and as I wanted a change I went with that.
They handle pretty good for a big car as most of my Scooby owning mates have also said when I've taken them for a spin, but as I said its no got eh chuckability etc, if you can live without that you'll love it for many other reasons!

ScoobyJawa

And just realised mate you asked re insurance. Theres plenty of threads over on the MKIV forums but off the top of my head good ones for JSpecs are:

Tesco
Bell Direct
A Plan
Footman James
Keith Michaels
Elephant <- who I'm with. 100 quid more than my scoob cost to insure.

mcanny

I see you are in Bradford - there are a few of us in the area with an assortment of models of Supra so maybe we could have a mini-meet so you can have a look at a selection and compare them?

One piece of advice - don't buy anything from Quintons in Bradford, they really suck big time

And finally Mr Cavalier, Mrs Smith at number 53 is still waiting for her taxi, can you hurry up please and stop making yourself look stupid by posting complete crap.

I bid you farewell

RLE

iTrader: (2)

Thanks mate. I'll be giving some of them a try. Guess its the easy bit now.....finding a nice example but I guess thats half the fun of buying a new car.

Mcanny-thats a nice gesture and think I will take you up on the offer nearer the time when I come to buy early next year. You can show me what to expect from Supra ownership!! Really love the Subaru but its just getting ever more popular with the Max Power brigade. The Supra seems a rare sight around my area (though I saw a nice red one this morning near Wilsden) Just need to get past the finacial burden that is Xmas.

[Edited by RLE - 12/19/2003 12:39:44 PM]

ScoobyJawa

The good thing is mate, as you want 98 on and that means JSpec they are generally in MUCH better condition than the UK cars with less mileage.

My 1993 car was mint, most people can't beleive its 10 and looks like its just come out of the factory. It had covered just 33k miles when it came over Alot of UK's of the same era are over 100k miles and looking a bit tatty, still great cars though, there really is very little difference. But 100k miles on these engines means nothing BTW, so don't be put off by higher miles!


[Edited by ScoobyJawa - 12/19/2003 12:41:29 PM]

Cosworth427

Have you not looked at the dynograph in the link I provided? 178 KW x 1.34 = 240 HP at the wheels. A US/Euro spec averages between 265 - 270 at the wheels.

Why do you deny obvious facts?


Yes, I was a wrong about the injector sizes, it was off the top of my head from memory, probably mixed up with the 300 zx. (380 cc injectors). I still stand by the fact that J-spec supras use smaller high-impedance injectors.

Top end as in HIGH RPM POWER.



Now this another example of how much an internet racer you are instead of someone who works on cars and drives cars in the real world. I said 14 seconds AVERAGE 1/4 mile time. I have seen more than one 1/4 mile result, some as high as 14.5 some as low as 13.7, but no every tom dick or harry can get 13.7 from a stock J-spec, but YOU believe that they hit low 13's all the time.


I never said that site had every detail over J-spec supras. VVTI just spreads the torque band wider, there have been claims that they make 350 HP at the crank - although I'm not too sure about those cars since they are so rare.

Again, Scoobyjawa - LOOK at the dyno graph measured in KWs.

For your information, I own a MK3 Supra Turbo you dipschit.


[Edited by Cosworth427 - 12/19/2003 1:11:39 PM]

Cosworth427

How can you destroy a car with more power and atleast 100 kilos less weight than your "Supra"?

scooby_si

oh i remember the good old days when you could just call supra driver hairy chested medalion wearers & no-one wood bat an eyelid pmsl
Tiz funny to see such fishing going on again i must confess yer not one of mycrofts illigimate kids r ya? lol.
All this mines bigger than yours is shyte & its easy to be pedantic & say yes but technical i was correct in sub section 24b but yawn bottom line is supras have what is probably the most tunable engine on any relatively mass produced car & the point is it's easy to get big BHP for small £ outa them. Not having a pop as if you managed to get big power outa yer car then good luck to ya chap but my logic has always been rather than keep spending a fortune on a crapper car to make it better why not just sell get a better base car & not need to keep throwing good money after bad. That does sound a bit nasty i suppose but & as i say i have nothing against anyone wanting to give their car a large portion of tune i like mods im not PSlewis lol but i will as many cannot resist take the p!ss when i see sum youth with a max'd fiesta or similar saying they've spent £15k i just laugh to myself thinking yes well dont but you kdu just of bort sumin better spent some on making it individual & had a better car for same £ Same logic as why i sold the scoob rather than keep going for more & more.....
Si (getting coat as each to their own but u get the gist i like using logic pmsl)

Cosworth427

Amazing, I provide proofs that a non-VVTI J-spec Supra makes no more than 280 HP at the flywheel - using every possible explanation and facts at my disposal while limited on the internet...

Keep wishing and dreaming, maybe your 1993 Stock J-spec might run 13s.

WRX280

Well you got your injector sizes wrong for starters

Ha ha, you are so naive my friend! Those pics/graphs are taken from the Toyota Supra OEM handbook so what do you expect.

Like others have said already, stop reading and believing and start to get out and experience

Cosworth427

SCROLL-DOWN-FURTHER.

They have a dyno sheet in KW at the wheels.

Cosworth427

waaa waaa. I can't remember every single specification off the top of my head while at work. Jebus Kraust.

WRX280

I tell you what instead of reading and believing, which you seem to like to do , why don't you goto www.suprafoums.com and ask what standard Supras dyno (people who have *REAL* life experience), and take the mean of that. Surely that way you'll have more accurate data in your quest for proving us wrong :P.