We'll have to agree to differ then. It strikes me as perfectly reasonable for a company to demand payment for services which it has provided for 18 months and for which you have so far paid nothing.

Regardless of whether it's ticked you off or not, you are the one legally in the wrong - regardless of who is in the wrong morally in your opinion.

Therefore, refusing to talk to them to help come to an amicable settlement that suits both parties smacks of cutting off your nose to spite your face. All it will result in is a demand for the entire sum, which will put you into more financial trouble than if you swallowed your pride, and negotiated payment terms....

 

So you don't think that their credit controller being rude to me from the outset when she called this morning was unnecessary? Would you expect a representative of a company to call you and begin being rude in a situation such as this?

I'd have been happy to try and negotiate a settlement this morning. I am still willing to try and reach an agreement - I'd not have posted on here asking for advice if I wasn't willing to discuss this with them - but I do think they're being unreasonable in expecting the amount in one go, or even over 3 months. And I think they are entirely out of order for being rude about it and accusing me of purposely attempting to defraud them.

 

You of all people complaining about someone being rude on the phone? LOL, wow, how many times have you posted about being rude to people when you are at work over the phone?

A little bit of double standards here, you are obviously taking the mickey out of your workplace by using Scoobynet in company time, which could be construed as trying to defraud them? Surely that is abusing your position, should you not be dedicating the time that the company pays for you with work stuff and not posting up overly argumentative things on Scoobynet.

Sometimes opinions are best kept to oneself, I think it might be a good idea for you to take that on board.

 

You still appear to be completely missing the point. You're acting like somehow the company is being unfair or unjust by demanding this payment from you?

The fact of the matter is that they have every right to be aggressive and blunt on the phone to you, since you legally owe them money, and you appear to be refusing to pay. Consider a similar situation: if you walked into a shop, picked up a TV, and walked out without paying, would you expect the shop owner to grovel and speak politely and patiently to you? I wouldn't. I'd expect them to be angry and annoyed that you'd taken something without paying.

When push comes to shove, no matter how many reasons you dream up for not being at fault, the fact of the matter is that you owe them money from over a year ago. Asking people on SN for a sympathy vote won't change that, and throwing your toys out of the pram if they speak to you sternly about it won't help either.

Phone 'em up, grovel a bit, and hope they're more sympathetic to you than you've been to them....

 

Eh?

I think you might be confusing me with someone else here because I genuinely don't know what you are talking about. The 'phone plays a very minimal part in my job - I have used it maybe 10 times in 2 months. Perhaps if you can provide examples of what you're on about your point will be clearer.

Ooh, now aren't we leaping to conclusions. For your information, my manager knows I use SN from work and he doesn't have any issue with it. I'm part of a new IT team that doesn't actually have any servers to look after, so we don't have all that much to do yet. In order to stop us falling asleep or passing out from boredom, both my colleague and myself spend a fair amount of the day on the 'net. So, if my employer doesn't have an issue with it, why should you?

Besides, how is your accusation I am defrauding my employer related to my ISP failing to bill me?

It sounds to me like you have some sort of issue with me. I don't know what that is, seeing as I don't even know who you are, but in future, if you'd like to make any more unfounded accusations that are not related in any way to the thread, please drop me an e-mail and spare the board further disjointed ramblings. Thanks.

Oh, and as a final point, the entire point of a discussion board is discussion, no? It wouldn't be very interesting if everybody kept their opinions to themselves. Or are you just suggesting that people you don't agree with keep quiet, so that you can be part of a group that pats each other on the back and tells each other they're right all the time?


Edit: I *swear* my typing is getting worse.

[Edited by TurboKitty - 6/30/2003 3:06:41 PM]

 

<pats TK on the back>

You're absolutely right.

 

Mark, they have a right to be rude because I am refusing to pay? Eh? They were rude to me right from the outset, before we'd discussed payment at all.

I called them yesterday and alerted them to the problem and this morning was the first contact from them on the matter. It's possible that I might have been in a position to pay them immediately, so why the need to be rude from the beginning? And regardless of whether they are entitled to be rude, (which, incidentally, I don't think they are), they're almost certainly likely to get a better reaction if they're polite.

I don't deny I owe them the money, and I don't think they are being unreasonable in asking me to pay. I do, however, think that expecting the amount in a lump sum is unrealistic. It's as much in their interests to come up with a workable plan as it is in mine. Starting off by being rude, before they even knew if I was in a position to pay, was not a good way to begin negotiations. I have not at any point refused to pay them. I've merely pointed out that I am not able to be able to do what they are asking.

Your analogy with the TV is not really representative because I did not intentionally take anything without paying. If my ISP had written to me when my credit card expired, I'd have made alternative arrangements immediately. In did not know they were not being paid and they made no effort to tell me.

And exactly where was I asking for sympathy? What I wanted was advice about what sort of arrangement to suggest to the ISP. So far there have been one or two useful comments, for which I am grateful. And as for anyone "speaking sternly", why should my responses not be equally short?


And to the last post, Mark,

 

Dear me, whem you bite, you bite hard don't you?

How much angst can one person store up. It's you against the whole of the world, right?

Part of a group? I don't need my ego patting like some, I can quite happily partake in life with or without the assistance of fellow beings.
I can also quite happily take criticism, advice and participate in debates without flying off the handle. I can also distinguish between obvious wind ups and genuine nastiness.
It's a shame a small minority can't.

You are always on your soapbox preaching or whining about this and that, you fire back at people when they don't see or agree with your point of view, yet seem to be unable to accept other people's point of view.
It is a real shame that you seem unable to discuss or debate without getting overly defensive (not everyone is out to get you you know!!!) about things.
Posting up about how you should have sympathy over things in the Muppet Show yet you have a go at people for attention seeking.

I am sure our paths will cross again TK, in the meantime I will disappear back into the background ether.
I have no cause of argument with you, I just feel that you need to really look into the way you act, come across and post on the board.
You are a catalyst and antagonist in borderline situations, you tend to cause flames where none are needed. I am sure the moderators whince every time you post.
I have no doubt that you have intelligence, it just doesn't really come across at times.
I have assisted in taking this thread off topic and I shall cease to do so.

Please take care,

Dastardly.

 

Just pay the ISP and dont be such a tight miser. If u use a service then u pay for it !
People who go through life trying to blame other poeple for their own mistakes have got serious problems....

 

There you go jumping to conclusions again. Because I am putting my case strongly I have flown off the handle? As it happens I am sitting at work feeling quite calm, not in the least bit angry.

I don’t know you, and as far as I am aware you don’t know me. You obviously didn’t take the time to find out anything about my work situation before accusing me of “defrauding my employer”. I wouldn’t say that sounds like a wind-up, especially when posted by a total stranger.

I can see other people’s points of view, but if you’re going to expect me to give up my own views and agree with someone who sees it differently, at least without a very strong case being made, you’re going to be disappointed.

Gee, why would I get antsy when a total stranger makes random accusations that I am defrauding my employer in the middle of a thread unconnected with that subject?!

Again, I have no idea what you mean. If you’re going to make such claims, would you be so good as to refer to the relevant threads?

Incidentally, I note you seem to have forgotten to explain your claim that I am rude on the telephone at work. I’d appreciate it if you’d explain what you meant, if you are able.

So why did you try and start one by posting random, inaccurate accusations on a thread they were not even relevant to?

And this comes from someone who just accused me of rudeness at work and of defrauding my employer, apparently without knowledge of the situation, or any evidence. Still, it’s easier to dispense advice than to actually take it yourself, huh?

Assisted?

 

Well, TK, you asked for advice, and we gave it to you - pay up. Since then, you've just whinged and whined about how some person spoke to you on the phone and tried to use that as an excuse as to why you shouldn't pay. Remember, the person on the other end of the phone is probably a low-paid call-centre worker, who might have had a particularly bad morning, but is simply doing their job. People are rude all the time, and polite all the time, but it doesn't alter the fact that you owe them money, and it's your responsibility to sort out paying it.

Oh, and if you read this thread through again, with your posts pleading poverty and claiming that the company were mean to you by being rude, I think it'll become very clear that the tone of your posts was looking for sympathy. In particular, comments like "It must be nice to not have to work so hard that you have the time and energy to check every minute detail of your bank accounts each month." are clearly meant to indicate that you're very hard-working (although it begs the question that if you're so short of time that you can't spend 15 minutes checking your c/c and bank accounts, perhaps you should do it at work instead of posting all day on SN.... ).

I suspect you were expecting everyone to pile in and back you up by saying "Don't pay the b@stards - it's their fault!", and when everyone took the other side of the argument you appear to have been taken aback....

[Edited by MarkO - 6/30/2003 3:35:25 PM]

 

Tsunami ,

To recap, since you seem not to have grasped the salient points:

1. This was as much their mistake as mine
2. I would pay them if I could, but I don't have the money

Now, how about you make a sensible suggestion as to what sort of arrangement I suggest to them, or are you just here to call people names?

 

TK, to recap:

1. Whose mistake it was is really irrelevant.
2. I've already suggested possible arrangements several times. But you've posted several times that because of their attitude, you're not going to phone them to sort out an arrangment.

 

TK surely when your CC expired and you didnt't renew - you would have looked at previous statements to ensure that no monthly payments for goods/services would be affected.

No wonder the ISP company are treating you with suspicion and I think being extremely lenient with you in the circumstances. After all they have 1000's of accounts to manage and you as an individual only have your own and should be able to look after it more efficiently!

 

Lynne, I'd had the credit card for a long time and I had ceased to use it some time previously. I'd forgotten that my ISP charged the account because the arrangement had been made in 1995! The balance was paid automatically from another account and I didn't notice when the credit card company stopped taking the £11.75

I really had no idea the payments were not being processed.

And if the ISP cannot believe that I did not realise the payments were not being taken, maybe they should consider how they did not realise they were not being paid? If they can not realise when they have entire departments and systems dedicated to managing payments, it's entirely feasible I could miss it.

 

Mark, the advice I needed was what sort of arrangement to suggest to the ISP. The advice "pay up" is not all that helpful when, as I've pointed out several times, I do not have the money. You’ve suggested a credit card, but that’s not possible because there’s no room on my credit card.

And if you re-read the thread, you’ll see the comment of mine that you quoted is a direct response to Chris who was implying that I must make too much money if I don’t keep track of every CC/DD payment.

Regardless of what you think, sympathy won’t help the situation, so is of no interest to me. What I was expecting was suggestions as to what sort of arrangement the ISP might find acceptable. I’m going to push them to write off some of the debt, as I feel this is as much their fault as mine, and they have admitted that they see it that way too. I thought, since SN is quite big, that a few people might have had to negotiate with an ISP like this before.

 

Then make them an offer via letter explaining why you are doing that.

If they refuse, make another offer.

If they refuse again, talk to the Citizens Advice Bureau who can offer free advice and negotiate on your behalf.

 

bet I can beat you here!
Nat West demanded £1k from us when Rich started working there. Apparently they have a policy of employees not being allowed to have student overdrafts.
Not at all fair and he was not told of this before so we had to pay them it.
To cap it when he left them, they mis-calculated his final salary and then demanded £800 or so back with immediate effect after 2 months of him leaving. We did pay it back but not before I got the line of 'I suggest you review your staff training to ensure that this doesn't happen again' in on them.
They could have had it back in one go but I thought sod that, they can have it back in installments so we get the interest

Speak to CAB though, they are good at mediating and come back with better answers than the condescending attitude of the company that we had issues with

[Edited by scoob_babe - 6/30/2003 4:05:38 PM]

 

Emma at the end of the day - the onus is on you to manage your account with your ISP, I presume you still have the contract from them regarding monthly payments. You have defaulted on payments. Having dealt with accounts all my working life, I think they are being very fair with you and tbh if you take the attitude
they can withdraw your account with immediate effect and perfectly within their right to do so.

After all we are only talking about £15 ish per week to repay them back over a 3 month period

 

Then it is you that have misunderstood me. I posted at 13:40 that I am still willing to try and find a workable arrangement. However, that's not going to be very easy when I am dealing with a rude credit controller who is insisting that this must be paid over no more than 3 months, which I just *cannot* do. For once, it's got nothing to do with me being difficult, I just can't do it.

You've suggested a credit card, which I've pointed out is not an option. If you made any other suggestions, beyond "pay up" I missed them in the background noise.

I have every intention of calling them back. The call this morning ended with her asking me to think what sort of arrangement would suit me and to call back tomorrow. Hence my post on here asking for advice as to what they might find acceptable.

However, if she'd been polite when I spoke to her this morning, we may have managed to come up with something then. As it was, she just got my back up.

What it comes down to, is that if my ISP continue to insist I pay within 3 months, then they will not get any of the money, because I don't have it, and we will both lose out. Their being rude and inflexible is not in their interests just as much as it's not in mine.

 

At least you've got MS Money now to avoid this happening again - we've got quicken as we have a lot of bank accounts with money being moved across regularly.
Get your regular payments set up so they download automatically into your current account details so you can see at a glance how much is left after they have been paid off. (Quicken lets you do this, don't know about Money)I usually spend about 15 mins a week reconciling DD and credit card spending against the relevant accounts on Quicken to make sure we're not overspending.
Saying that, I have still forgotten to enter a payment and then had a nasty shock when it came out the bank account right after Christmas!!

 

that won't help you at all in the long run, it will just get you black-listed on all the credit ratings. They will not lose out as they are perfectly and legally entitled to their money. If it goes to court, you will bear the costs too

 

It doesn't matter if it's £15 a week or £5000 a week if you don't have it.

 

Credit controllers are not there to make friends, they are paid to get the money off you.

You know you can't pay it, so therefore you need to make alternative arrangements.

The best advice you can get it via the CAB. I advise you to go there. Counter-acting people on here isn't going to solve your problem, it certainly isn't achieving anything apart from generating plenty of negativity.
Before I get accused of having a go at you as you have done recently, this is a general observation.

Write them a letter explaining your circumstances, state the reason why you feel you shouldn't pay it or at least have it reduced. Make them an offer for arrangements of how much you can pay and let them get back to you.

The ball is in their court then and they can either go with your offer or pursue further action.

 

Just so people know, this has been RTM'd with a comparison made to an damaged form of old musical reproduction...

It seems that all the salient points have been made.

I don't know what more use anyone is going to get from it other than a good argument , but I'll leave it open unless it disintegrates into pointless circular debate.

NSR may be more appropriate? Or muppets

 

No 'chelle, it's not achieving anything. Mostly because people would rather crow about how much better managed their affairs are, or apportion blame, than make the sensible suggestions which were asked for.

Frankly, I don't care who thinks this is entirely my fault. I disagree, and my ISP have admitted that they should have contacted me 18 months ago, so assigning blame is a bit pointless.

I've just had a very sensible suggestion made by e-mail, (thanks for that - you know who you are), and I'll try it when I call them tomorrow. Incidentally, I think it's sad that a genuine suggestion, which may help other people in future, was driven off the board by all the negativity.

So, to those of you who gave advice, thanks.

 

"damaged form of old musical reproduction"

lost me....explain?

 

chiark, to be honest, I think it can be locked. It's clear that nothing postive or useful will come of it, and as has been demonstrated, anyone with further comment to make can always mail me.

 

broken record
you're obviously too you to remember the vinyl

 

mj, broken record?