M3 - How have BMW done this?
09 May 2003, 05:35 PM
#62
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Tiggers,
If I leave my M5 in a car park, 99% of the time I'll take up 2 spaces. I will park a fair walk from the building (Tescos, Sainsburys, Cinema etc), but I did not pay a reasonable amount of cash for my car so that some muppet can park next to me and pin dent the door or run a trolley in to the back of the car etc etc. Apologies if this sensible approach to paintwork/bodywork preservation sits uneasily with you.
I was offered an very very nice imported R34 with just under 500 bhp in a no cash exchange for my M5. I still have my M5. Enough said.
None of my previous Scoobs can hold a candle to the BMW in terms of quality of build. No Subaru I have had puts such a smile on my face as the BMW.
It's a shame BMW drivers have a bad rep, but still, I'll stick with the car and ignore the rants of the Scooby/Soarer/Evo lot who don't really understand why "M" car owners are happy with their cars.
I guess that I shouldn't mention that my M5 is cheaper to delaer service, less thirsty and holds a far higher residual value (despite imminent model replacement) than a new STI8 PPP or for that matter, any other turbo Scoob that came before it. It cost me the same as an S202 or nicely spec'd Spec C Impreza.
I'll keep the Beemer thanks.
Matt
If I leave my M5 in a car park, 99% of the time I'll take up 2 spaces. I will park a fair walk from the building (Tescos, Sainsburys, Cinema etc), but I did not pay a reasonable amount of cash for my car so that some muppet can park next to me and pin dent the door or run a trolley in to the back of the car etc etc. Apologies if this sensible approach to paintwork/bodywork preservation sits uneasily with you.
I was offered an very very nice imported R34 with just under 500 bhp in a no cash exchange for my M5. I still have my M5. Enough said.
None of my previous Scoobs can hold a candle to the BMW in terms of quality of build. No Subaru I have had puts such a smile on my face as the BMW.
It's a shame BMW drivers have a bad rep, but still, I'll stick with the car and ignore the rants of the Scooby/Soarer/Evo lot who don't really understand why "M" car owners are happy with their cars.
I guess that I shouldn't mention that my M5 is cheaper to delaer service, less thirsty and holds a far higher residual value (despite imminent model replacement) than a new STI8 PPP or for that matter, any other turbo Scoob that came before it. It cost me the same as an S202 or nicely spec'd Spec C Impreza.
I'll keep the Beemer thanks.
Matt
09 May 2003, 05:41 PM
#63
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"If I leave my M5 in a car park, 99% of the time I'll take up 2 spaces. I will park a fair walk from the building (Tescos, Sainsburys, Cinema etc), but I did not pay a reasonable amount of cash for my car so that some muppet can park next to me and pin dent the door or run a trolley in to the back of the car etc etc."
!!!QED!!!!
As for you being happy with your car - good for you! My point was simply that in ultimate performance terms there are alternatives to the M3 and I don't necessarily mean Scoobys.
Still you are a BMW driver so you probably can't see past the badge like most of the breed ;-)
tiggers
!!!QED!!!!
As for you being happy with your car - good for you! My point was simply that in ultimate performance terms there are alternatives to the M3 and I don't necessarily mean Scoobys.
Still you are a BMW driver so you probably can't see past the badge like most of the breed ;-)
tiggers
09 May 2003, 07:02 PM
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Dont forget that you was the P.O.S that also refered Japanese cars as "rice" mobiles
And you insulted people on here for calling them JAP and RICE mobile's, When really this is a Public forum, And people can refer to certain brand of car etc how they F**king want to.
so get of your high horse you total and complete Arrogant ****
09 May 2003, 09:39 PM
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================================================== =================
"Ok in my first post, I refered to japanese car's as JAP car's, I only refered to them as RICE mobile's, After you left your silly post saying you was upset with them being refered to as RICE mobile's, I done it to upset your pratty uptight **** even more.
And you insulted people on here for calling them JAP and RICE mobile's, When really this is a Public forum, And people can refer to certain brand of car etc how they F**king want to.
so get of your high horse you total and complete Arrogant ****"
================================================== ==================
I'll get off my high horse when you stop making ignorant racist remarks.
Yes, this is a public forum, but the subject of emphasis is about CARS. This place isn't a contest to see who's the most farking ignorant moron around (you'll win it easy).
Unfortunately, you can pretty much refer to something how you want in here, but as in life you POS, if you make a negative uninformed comment, you will get a negative reaction. It is as simple as that.
I INITIALLY asked people here to stop refering to the Subuaru as a rice/jap mobile etc, I ASKED first. But idiots like yourself would rather carry on and make references to those terms without giving a **** about how offensive it is to some people.
Grow up!
"Ok in my first post, I refered to japanese car's as JAP car's, I only refered to them as RICE mobile's, After you left your silly post saying you was upset with them being refered to as RICE mobile's, I done it to upset your pratty uptight **** even more.
And you insulted people on here for calling them JAP and RICE mobile's, When really this is a Public forum, And people can refer to certain brand of car etc how they F**king want to.
so get of your high horse you total and complete Arrogant ****"
================================================== ==================
I'll get off my high horse when you stop making ignorant racist remarks.
Yes, this is a public forum, but the subject of emphasis is about CARS. This place isn't a contest to see who's the most farking ignorant moron around (you'll win it easy).
Unfortunately, you can pretty much refer to something how you want in here, but as in life you POS, if you make a negative uninformed comment, you will get a negative reaction. It is as simple as that.
I INITIALLY asked people here to stop refering to the Subuaru as a rice/jap mobile etc, I ASKED first. But idiots like yourself would rather carry on and make references to those terms without giving a **** about how offensive it is to some people.
Grow up!
09 May 2003, 11:04 PM
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What's everyone got against the 316? The E46 316 drives very nicely, they handle well, look nice and have very good re-sale. Ok, so it's a 4 cylinder, but that's not to say it's a bad car.
I work for BMW, so I'm a little biased, but having been taken out in a classic de-catted Impreza Turbo I didn't find it that fast, especially not when compared to an E46 M3. The interior was low rent, and it looks pretty damn $hite in comparison to the M3! No contest for me, the M3 looks better, is built better, has better residuals, and 90% of the time is much faster than an Impreza, I prefer the way the E46 M3 "howl" too. Plus, driving down the local high street, how many young, fit girlies are going to think the Impreza is cool? Not many, I'd wager, they'd think you were a boy racer (like me). Now think what they'd think of an M3. Classy, maybe?
Pretty pointless reply, just gets my back up a bit the way some of you guys go on about BMWs!
Rich
I work for BMW, so I'm a little biased, but having been taken out in a classic de-catted Impreza Turbo I didn't find it that fast, especially not when compared to an E46 M3. The interior was low rent, and it looks pretty damn $hite in comparison to the M3! No contest for me, the M3 looks better, is built better, has better residuals, and 90% of the time is much faster than an Impreza, I prefer the way the E46 M3 "howl" too. Plus, driving down the local high street, how many young, fit girlies are going to think the Impreza is cool? Not many, I'd wager, they'd think you were a boy racer (like me
). Now think what they'd think of an M3. Classy, maybe?Pretty pointless reply, just gets my back up a bit the way some of you guys go on about BMWs!
Rich
10 May 2003, 01:04 AM
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"Plus, driving down the local high street, how many young, fit girlies are going to think the Impreza is cool? Not many, I'd wager, they'd think you were a boy racer (like me ). Now think what they'd think of an M3. Classy, maybe?"
What a mentality by which to judge a car? Says it all realy. QED again!! Honestly I despair ;-)
tiggers
What a mentality by which to judge a car? Says it all realy. QED again!! Honestly I despair ;-)
tiggers
10 May 2003, 05:57 PM
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Thread starter "tigger" posed this pertinent question:
>> My question is how have BMW managed to brainwash people such as this otherwise intelligent guy into thinking that no matter what evidence is presented to them they would still rather shell out an extra £10000 - $15000 for the 'ultimate driving machine' - it has to be the world's biggest marketing triumph. <<
You've answered your own question ... Brainwashing !! ...
Similarly, brainwashing involves spreading the word about ... "superior build quality", "higher residuals" (that's a cracker!!) and all the other bullshine designed to part the car buyer with his money and pay well over the odds for the priviledge of buying a car here in the UK.
Driving down the M5 recently in heavy rain, I remarked to my passenger as we passed two newish BMWs on the hard shoulder with bonnets up, steaming nicely ... head gaskets or ...
He then told me he once worked in the service department of a BMW dealership and then proceeded to explain some of the problems he had had to deal with .... Superior? ... well, some of them maybe!
Yes, you've answered your own question ....
Other myths exploded ... witness the pendulous Porsche through the hedge backwards ....v. nasty ... or the more balanced rear wheel drive "ultimate driving experience" in a similar position come the first icy roads of autumn....
Still the punters avidly consume this bullshine with gusto .... so, why not .... it pays here ... handsomely.
In Germany, the BMW is just another tool for getting about .... and is more reasonably priced too ...
When it comes to brainwashing our UK media takes some beating. For example; observe the same technique of brainwashing by our UK media in all its forms when reporting anything MG-R in recent years (decades?)..... usually in the worse possible light. The disappointment was all too obvious when recently reporting MG-R positive news ... "Loss making Midlands MG-Rover's workforce have voted NOT to take industrial action and to accept the latest pay offer". They'd much prefer a more negative ... "All out bruvvers" ... is it any wonder .... not for me it isn't.
So, you wanna pay over the odds for your motors? ... as apparently many prefer to do ... go ahead .... exclude me out ....
What if we left the things unsold in the UK showrooms for a year? Do you think prices might just come down a tad? Market forces and all that....
I don't think we as a nation of car buyers have the nouse or ***** (ovaries?) to do that ...
Remember what the World's Motor Manufactures call the UK?
TREASURE ISLAND !! Nuff said .....
>> My question is how have BMW managed to brainwash people such as this otherwise intelligent guy into thinking that no matter what evidence is presented to them they would still rather shell out an extra £10000 - $15000 for the 'ultimate driving machine' - it has to be the world's biggest marketing triumph. <<
You've answered your own question ... Brainwashing !! ...
Similarly, brainwashing involves spreading the word about ... "superior build quality", "higher residuals" (that's a cracker!!
) and all the other bullshine designed to part the car buyer with his money and pay well over the odds for the priviledge of buying a car here in the UK.Driving down the M5 recently in heavy rain, I remarked to my passenger as we passed two newish BMWs on the hard shoulder with bonnets up, steaming nicely ... head gaskets or ...
He then told me he once worked in the service department of a BMW dealership and then proceeded to explain some of the problems he had had to deal with .... Superior? ... well, some of them maybe!
Yes, you've answered your own question ....
Other myths exploded ... witness the pendulous Porsche through the hedge backwards ....v. nasty ... or the more balanced rear wheel drive "ultimate driving experience" in a similar position come the first icy roads of autumn....
Still the punters avidly consume this bullshine with gusto .... so, why not .... it pays here ... handsomely.
In Germany, the BMW is just another tool for getting about .... and is more reasonably priced too ...
When it comes to brainwashing our UK media takes some beating. For example; observe the same technique of brainwashing by our UK media in all its forms when reporting anything MG-R in recent years (decades?)..... usually in the worse possible light. The disappointment was all too obvious when recently reporting MG-R positive news ... "Loss making Midlands MG-Rover's workforce have voted NOT to take industrial action and to accept the latest pay offer". They'd much prefer a more negative ... "All out bruvvers" ... is it any wonder .... not for me it isn't.
So, you wanna pay over the odds for your motors? ... as apparently many prefer to do ... go ahead .... exclude me out ....
What if we left the things unsold in the UK showrooms for a year? Do you think prices might just come down a tad? Market forces and all that....
I don't think we as a nation of car buyers have the nouse or ***** (ovaries?) to do that ...
Remember what the World's Motor Manufactures call the UK?
TREASURE ISLAND !! Nuff said .....
10 May 2003, 06:27 PM
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MGJohn.
.. post and a ½ matey.
.. people are told by Clarkson, Needell and a hundred other people 'what is good' or 'what is cool' few ever drive without prejudice.
.. I was taught to drive by my uncle, an ex-Jaguar (50's) tester.
.. he was a tyre tester for Michelin and Pirelli and the hardest thing is to drive subjectively.
.. to 'really' test a car needs discipline and an open mind.
.. road testers are in the pockets of various Manufacturers and gain huge benefits thereby.
.. yet everywhere I go I too encounter people who say:-
'How can you say that (insert car here) is not great it cost (insert 6 figure sum here) and it looks great and (insert TV chimp here) said it was great.
Therefore the opinion of a person who is paid to say soothing things is taken as Gospel, but the voice of someone who driven a straight non-specially prepared car is ignored... and we all pay for this con...
Good on'ya mate.
.. drive the car not the image.
.. speak the truth of what you find.
.. you'll be ridiculed for it but it has to be done.
.. post and a ½ matey.
.. people are told by Clarkson, Needell and a hundred other people 'what is good' or 'what is cool' few ever drive without prejudice.
.. I was taught to drive by my uncle, an ex-Jaguar (50's) tester.
.. he was a tyre tester for Michelin and Pirelli and the hardest thing is to drive subjectively.
.. to 'really' test a car needs discipline and an open mind.
.. road testers are in the pockets of various Manufacturers and gain huge benefits thereby.
.. yet everywhere I go I too encounter people who say:-
'How can you say that (insert car here) is not great it cost (insert 6 figure sum here) and it looks great and (insert TV chimp here) said it was great.
Therefore the opinion of a person who is paid to say soothing things is taken as Gospel, but the voice of someone who driven a straight non-specially prepared car is ignored... and we all pay for this con...
Good on'ya mate.
.. drive the car not the image.
.. speak the truth of what you find.
.. you'll be ridiculed for it but it has to be done.
10 May 2003, 06:47 PM
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Headgasket failure on new BMWs are NOT common, I should know, I supply the parts for them...
Most common fault of the E46 is the front lower arms. £140 each and the bush set for £70. Can't think of any others off the top of my head..
Rich
PS - BMW is generally a superior product. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way John. Not many cars drive like BMWs do.
PPS - and you saw some pratt stuff a 3 series? Big deal, they don't know how to handle RWD and the wet, obviously.
Most common fault of the E46 is the front lower arms. £140 each and the bush set for £70. Can't think of any others off the top of my head..
Rich
PS - BMW is generally a superior product. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way John. Not many cars drive like BMWs do.
PPS - and you saw some pratt stuff a 3 series? Big deal, they don't know how to handle RWD and the wet, obviously.
10 May 2003, 06:53 PM
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E46 series... 95 recalls since 1999...
Source JDPower...
I always like to compare things to my own car....
SC series [300/400] 32 recalls.
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Since 1991...
Source JDPower.
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/10/2003 6:57:57 PM]
Source JDPower...
I always like to compare things to my own car....
SC series [300/400] 32 recalls.
.
.
.
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.
.
.
.
.
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.
.
Since 1991...
Source JDPower.
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/10/2003 6:57:57 PM]
10 May 2003, 06:59 PM
#74
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Headgasket failure on new BMWs are NOT common, I should know, I supply the parts for them...
10 May 2003, 08:33 PM
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Don't post here much but just had to say thanks to MG John for the funniest thing I've read in a long while - an MG man pointing to head gaskets as a failure on BMWs. Total class.
This was after I had just recovered from "It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast" by a man who drives a Porsche 944. This board gets better by the day. Brilliant!
This was after I had just recovered from "It's not how fast you go, it's how you go fast" by a man who drives a Porsche 944. This board gets better by the day. Brilliant!
10 May 2003, 08:38 PM
#76
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E46 series... 95 recalls since 1999...
Source JDPower...
I always like to compare things to my own car....
SC series [300/400] 32 recalls.
.
.
Since 1991...
Source JDPower.
Source JDPower...
I always like to compare things to my own car....
SC series [300/400] 32 recalls.
.
.
Since 1991...
Source JDPower.
10 May 2003, 09:10 PM
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No Bobby !!!!!
My point is that if you produce - say - 1,000,000 cars, is it not understandable to have more issues with production recalls than a company who produce - say - 50,000?
!!!!!My point is that if you produce - say - 1,000,000 cars, is it not understandable to have more issues with production recalls than a company who produce - say - 50,000?
10 May 2003, 10:28 PM
#82
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Comne on MyCroft, or have you gone into an alcoholic haze?
Statment: The more of a vehiclea manufacturer produces, the more there is a chance of production recalls?
True or False, in your opinion?
Statment: The more of a vehiclea manufacturer produces, the more there is a chance of production recalls?
True or False, in your opinion?
10 May 2003, 10:45 PM
#83
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No, the real guiding figure is the time line... the recall for the E46 is 'good' but not 'that' good.
I have found the 4 year figure for my car... 7 recalls... there are a number of types of recall too...
The most important is the safety recall number....
E46 11
My car... none.
Things like the Air-bag going off on rough roads travelled at 'high speed' pot-holes at 36mph can set it off... that must be fun!!!
I have found the 4 year figure for my car... 7 recalls... there are a number of types of recall too...
The most important is the safety recall number....
E46 11
My car... none.
Things like the Air-bag going off on rough roads travelled at 'high speed' pot-holes at 36mph can set it off... that must be fun!!!
10 May 2003, 11:37 PM
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Ritchie 1 WROTE quoting Rich and Mini:
>> Headgasket failure on new BMWs are NOT common, I should know, I supply the parts for them... <<
Not common means that they do occur .... nuff said. I know that they are rather more frequent than most realise. ...
Please note above - particularly for the benefit of Colonel Mullet who appears to have some sense of humour ...
I wrote:
>> two newish BMWs on the hard shoulder with bonnets up, steaming nicely ... head gaskets or ... <<
So Colonel, please note my inclusion of the word OR .... Passing at motorway speeds, no way could I know the actual causes. Stone through the rad, failed coolant hose, you name it. Head gaskets can fail on ANY car following loss of coolant due to overheating as a result of that coolant loss. Not unkown for a distracted or even negligent spannerman at the best dealerships to fail to tighten the securing clip when fitting a hose. Here again I speak from experience. Agreed, anything can cause a steamy failure on any car.
Ritchie and Mini also WROTE:
>> PS - BMW is generally a superior product. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way John. Not many cars drive like BMWs do.
PPS - and you saw some pratt stuff a 3 series? Big deal, they don't know how to handle RWD and the wet, obviously. <<
Re PS: No need to be sorry - Where did a ever say they're NOT good cars ..... It's all the bullet proof superior build quality bullshine (at UK car buyers expense) I strongly object to. Consume all that bullshine if you so desire. That's your choice, I chose not to consume .....
A quick ww-web search will produce discontented owners for just about ANY new car produced, including examples of the highly regarded BMW. Some of the experiences of BMW owners make the sometimes fragile Subaru ownership look like a doddle.
Re your PPS ... and Rear Wheel Drive cars. Not so obvious. The most popular open 2 seater with UK car buyers for the past few years is a mid-engined rear wheel drive car. In the hands of those less experienced, it has been known to behave in a pendulous way like those teutonic RWD marques I mentioned previously. That RWD two seater? ... The MGF ... and now the MGTF. Fact is, any car can bite the careless or inexperienced. Come to think about it, experienced drivers too!!
Finally, I mentioned my dislike earlier of the way so many of our UK media almost incessantly refer to MG-Rover as the "Loss making Midlands car manufacturer". Always with a negative slant. (That disappointment when reporting MG-Rs workers voting not to take industrial action was acute). Over the years and to this present day, many other manufacturers are or have been in deep financial dodah! (BMW and Auto Union (now AUDI) in the 1970s IIRC and many others since). Why do they never refer to any of them as "Loss making"? You need diagrams? I don't ... I hate them for that ...
>> Headgasket failure on new BMWs are NOT common, I should know, I supply the parts for them... <<
Not common means that they do occur .... nuff said. I know that they are rather more frequent than most realise. ...
Please note above - particularly for the benefit of Colonel Mullet who appears to have some sense of humour ...
I wrote:
>> two newish BMWs on the hard shoulder with bonnets up, steaming nicely ... head gaskets or ... <<
So Colonel, please note my inclusion of the word OR .... Passing at motorway speeds, no way could I know the actual causes. Stone through the rad, failed coolant hose, you name it. Head gaskets can fail on ANY car following loss of coolant due to overheating as a result of that coolant loss. Not unkown for a distracted or even negligent spannerman at the best dealerships to fail to tighten the securing clip when fitting a hose. Here again I speak from experience. Agreed, anything can cause a steamy failure on any car.
Ritchie and Mini also WROTE:
>> PS - BMW is generally a superior product. I'm sorry you don't feel the same way John. Not many cars drive like BMWs do.
PPS - and you saw some pratt stuff a 3 series? Big deal, they don't know how to handle RWD and the wet, obviously. <<
Re PS: No need to be sorry
- Where did a ever say they're NOT good cars ..... It's all the bullet proof superior build quality bullshine (at UK car buyers expense) I strongly object to. Consume all that bullshine if you so desire. That's your choice, I chose not to consume .....A quick ww-web search will produce discontented owners for just about ANY new car produced, including examples of the highly regarded BMW. Some of the experiences of BMW owners make the sometimes fragile Subaru ownership look like a doddle.
Re your PPS ... and Rear Wheel Drive cars. Not so obvious. The most popular open 2 seater with UK car buyers for the past few years is a mid-engined rear wheel drive car. In the hands of those less experienced, it has been known to behave in a pendulous way like those teutonic RWD marques I mentioned previously. That RWD two seater? ... The MGF ... and now the MGTF. Fact is, any car can bite the careless or inexperienced. Come to think about it, experienced drivers too!!
Finally, I mentioned my dislike earlier of the way so many of our UK media almost incessantly refer to MG-Rover as the "Loss making Midlands car manufacturer". Always with a negative slant. (That disappointment when reporting MG-Rs workers voting not to take industrial action was acute). Over the years and to this present day, many other manufacturers are or have been in deep financial dodah! (BMW and Auto Union (now AUDI) in the 1970s IIRC and many others since). Why do they never refer to any of them as "Loss making"? You need diagrams? I don't ...
I hate them for that ...
10 May 2003, 11:38 PM
#87
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lol, its the Halfords special - the Evo.
When you grow up, you may (unlikely) understand the comment, until then, enjoy the rice.........bitch
When you grow up, you may (unlikely) understand the comment, until then, enjoy the rice.........bitch
10 May 2003, 11:46 PM
#88
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these guys were probably staring at their engines in disbelief at the amount of power eminating from such a small naturally aspirated block!!!!
can someone tell me what bullshine is also, please!!!!
BB
can someone tell me what bullshine is also, please!!!!
BB
10 May 2003, 11:49 PM
#89
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... Oh yes ... that JD survey thingie .... deals with cars what ... three years old? Big deal! Much more credence if those same cars were 'surveyed' say after 7 or 10 years ... with full costings worts and all. That would be much more informatively worthwhile. It really would ...
BTW, the R75 was the ONLY car to emerge from the recent JD thinggy with two "tops". Ride Quality was one and another which I can't remember .... read this magazine whilst waiting for a dental appointment. The ONLY car to get two tops in the survey. Can't possibly be right ... stands to reason ... it's a Rover ...
BTW, the R75 was the ONLY car to emerge from the recent JD thinggy with two "tops". Ride Quality was one and another which I can't remember .... read this magazine whilst waiting for a dental appointment. The ONLY car to get two tops in the survey. Can't possibly be right ... stands to reason ... it's a Rover ...