tiggers

The reason BMW drivers are despised is because a significant proportion of those that drive the low-rent models drive like tw@ts and park with no regard for anyone else. Whenever a car is parked across the white lines in a car park it's a BMW, whenever a car is parked illegally in a disabled space it's a BMW .....

Back to the original subject anyway. My point was that if you are buying a saloon car solely on performance then the M3 is overpriced, but somehow BMW have convinced most people that the M class BM's are the fastets thing on the road.

At the end of the day it is just a 3 series BMW and no more - a very nice one granted, but it still has it's origins in the 316i category. Let's put it this way if Vauxhall, for instance, announced a flagship top of the range Vectra costing £38K (pro rata'd against the 3 series entry level and the Vectra entry level) people would just laugh.

As far as I am concerned the BMW is a triumph of marketing over product.

Regards,

tiggers

beemerboy

you miss the point, its far more than 0-60 and image.

buy a bmw and look after it, it will last a lifetime.

buy a rice mobile, and you'll have holes in it in 10yrs!!!!
paint falling off, smoke billowing out, oil leaks everywhere, outdated looks, electrics failing, seats falling apart, engine sounding like a bag of nails, and residual of about ten quid!!!

i rest my case...

hahahahahahahahhahahahaha

goodnight!!

BB

Mmmmm

Is it not all about driving pleasure ?

Scoobs and Evos are rally bred compact saloons B road burners. respected by proper drivers and have a good street rep for bangs for bucks.

M3 saloon track racing bred fast road autobahn storming GT. Also respected by knowledgeable drivers and they do have a touch of class, equally cool to go to motorsport or to pop to Harrods for a spot of shopping .

All of the above win various "best drivers car awards" from various magazines (although the M3 does seem to do very well )

M3's are pretty good to drive, nice balanced chassis that gives reasonable feed back, good steering, progressive brakes, cracking straight 6 that rips right round to 8000rpm, oversteer fun can be had and is fairly easy to correct, in fact the cars handling is very forgiving in almost all circumstances, excellent flat out stability, it's built like a tank 1500kg (1700cab) and loaded with safety kit (useful if you hit something). It's pretty comfortable and quite practical, on the interior I've got a Porsche as well and the BMW interior is better.







As regards the 316i thing, there are mundane versions of basic lancers and Subarus around as well, actually the 316 bmws are pretty nice and although not quick give a nice involving drive.

Bmw do have good marketing, although not specifically on the M3, they don't have too the Magazines and telly programmes do it for them. Scoobies and EVOs are hyped just as much by the motoring press and get all the rally publicity.

The only cars that naturally falls as a challenger to the M3 is the CLK55AMG and its not such a drivers car, the only other quality GT that arguably beats it as a drivers car is the 996 and it costs £18k? more, other cars that don't do it are the Mazza4200 and the XKR both nice enough but the drives not in the same league.

Mycroft

###
you miss the point, its far more than 0-60 and image.
###
Indeed it is.

###
buy a bmw and look after it, it will last a lifetime.
###
No, it won't.

###
buy a rice mobile, and you'll have holes in it in 10yrs!!!!
paint falling off, smoke billowing out, oil leaks everywhere, outdated looks, electrics failing, seats falling apart, engine sounding like a bag of nails, and residual of about ten quid!!!
###
The BMW is only reliable in the base [less equipped] models... read JDPower surveys... Executive sports:- Lexus Soarer:-> No1 in all categories... M3:-> 4th to 11th... the E46 motor has problems now...


###
i rest my case...
###
Yes, I think you ought! Batty-boy

Cosworth427

================================================== ====================
"buy a bmw and look after it, it will last a lifetime.

buy a rice mobile, and you'll have holes in it in 10yrs!!!!
paint falling off, smoke billowing out, oil leaks everywhere, outdated looks, electrics failing, seats falling apart, engine sounding like a bag of nails, and residual of about ten quid!!!"
================================================== ====================

BULL$H1T

I've seen BMW's (E30's, E36's) (including my own 318i) have problems and build quality blank spots too, just like ANY car. Why the hell is it only possible that a german car remain in good shape from careful ownership while on the other hand Japanese cars cannot? Ask owners of Toyota MR-2's, Supras, Soarers, Nissan 300Zs, 200 sx's and they'll laugh you out of your seat from your unexperienced opinion.

KaraK

Tiggers - I feel sorry for your mate because he is a bit sad to think that Subaru and Mitsubishi pay magazines for good reviews. It is annoying when people get really single minded and think that their favorite car is all that and a bag of chips. When really its all about horses for courses.

I've never driven an M3, but I've driven a Merc CLK230 Kompressor, and that was a very quick motor, and it was very comfortable, it had electric everything and it was soooo relaxing to be in. By comparison my scoob feels "cheap" on the interior. And I still went for the scoob over the merc. Because the drive and the feel I got from the scoob was right for what I want at this point in my life. At the end of the day it's all about doing what makes yourself the happiest, and for me right now that's a scoob, maybe in a few years I'll look at a merc (or more likely a jag)

RB5_245

In My Opinion the M3 is no more discreet than the classic and not the same drivers car, if it's not performance your after why not get a 330, and if it is performance you're after then the UK300 and the EVO8 are faster, The M3 is for BMW Drivers....... and i'm sure we've all come across a few of them. .. ...

kenny.c

The M3 maybe no less discreet, but it does'nt attract the same sort of attention the scooby does.

RB5_245

Hmm, not convinced. the M3 get's just as much attention from the 'Playstation' Age boys..... which would suit the average M3 driver perfectly!!!

beemerboy

mycroft

[quote[###
buy a bmw and look after it, it will last a lifetime.
###
No, it won't.[/quote]

oh yeah, i forgot about those clutch riding grandads whod drive about in 5th at 20mph!!!
a bit like yourself i think!!!

hahaahha (this is great, its friday, the suns out, and mycroft is a ****)

BB

tiggers

"The M3 is for BMW Drivers....... and i'm sure we've all come across a few of them. .. "

That is one of the main reasons I would never buy one - I really do not want to be associated with the breed due to the way a lot of the drivers of the lesser models behave, I think they have a chip on their shoulder as soon as they realise their 'ultimate driving machine' is actually very ordinary and their car allowance could have been better spent elsewhere.

My business partner fits the bill nicely actually - he drives like a tw@t and would drive a BMW over any other car no matter what model. A few years back when I first met him and before we were in business together he was driving a 318i which he assured me was the best handling and performing car for the money bar none.

I pointed out a few other cars to him (including a Scooby) and he merely said - "Yes, but they're not BMW's are they?". Still he's damned good at sales and marketing so I guess I'll keep my mouth shut about his only serious character flaw ;-)

Regards,

tiggers

PPPMAT

I understand the comments about perceived 'image' of M3's but I can't think of another car I could use day to day, with the build quality, performance, looks and residual value of an M3.

If anyone can think of one better then please let me know as it will be my next car.

camk

Its amazing the anti BMW driver prejudice on this thread, possibly much of the issue lies in those who perceive all BMW's as being driven badly. I'm pretty sure the distribution of poor drivers is pretty even across all marques. How could it be different.
I just cannot get my head round the fact that someone is less likely to let you out of a sidestreet depending on what make of car you have. Why would you do that and how can this be legitimised in your own mind.
However I'll not be letting any Toyota Soarers out from any sidestreet in the next few months Just in case....

IwantAscoob

What is offensive about me calling a japanese car, a jap car ?

The same as i would call a tvr a brit car etc etc, I don't actually see your stupid point, As for IQ i think ya better take a close look at your's pal.

camk

Do you have the world database of Toyota's at your fingertips then...

beemerboy

hahah hey mycroft,,,,

i know why you think all bmw drivers are to55ers!!!
its because they are the only car you notice on the road, because deep down you want one so badly, the green eyed monster kicks in.
hahahah LMFAO.

lets agree to disagree, lifes too short, unlike this thread hehhehe
ATB
BB

camk

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/thread.asp?ThreadID=207255

A few BMW drivers with scoob loan cars whilst their X5's were in for a service ...

camk

The new breed of 'Off Roaders' Merc,BMW and Porsche are not really off road cars, although with the right tyres they can do that too. Its exactly the fact that on the whole they drive like executive saloons and not like 4WD barges that appeals to people. Its a whole new niche, don't get them confused with Landrovers, Nissan Patrol's or Shogun's. It's very different. The reason people buy them in spades is simply brand and the fact that having an X5 is more different in some peoples eyes than having a standard 5 series.
Why have a saloon and an offroader in your driveway when you can have 1 car that does both well, even if you really don't need one of the functions.

Mycroft

No problemmo batty-beemer-boy

The X5s' here at work are sneered at more than any 'car' I have ever known... 4 have 'graced' this place in the past year... only 2 owners have stayed faithful... I had to rescue one on the Plain a while back, my sub-ordinate took his off to a range and was stuck... my old 1989 SWB V8 Landy got him back to straight and narrow and only one wheel scraped... new one on warranty. [would have cost £550?!!!!!!! otherwise] if you have to be 'A ponce, in a big car, in a Field' then please get a Range-Rover.

On the road I really don't see the point of any Agricultural-sized 4WD and as for one in Surrey... hangings' too good for them!!!

tiggers

How can having an X5 be different when every man and his dog suddenly has one.

The reason to have a saloon and an off-roader is you can then have two vehicles specifically suited to their task rather than one which is a compromise on both tasks.

Also if you don't need an off-roader why have a vehicle capable of off-roading at all, but this really is dangerous territory and opens up a whole new can of worms. Most 4x4 owners will defend their purchase in any number of inane ways even though most of them think the low ratio gear selector is somewhere to hang their handbag.

I met someone the other day who was complaining about her Freelander as it was slow, handled badly on the road and was uneconomic fuel wise - I merely inquired as to what was different about the one she'd test driven - got a blank look - end of conversation.

Whilst we're on that subject I often see customer satisfaction surveys where Scooby owners complain about the fuel economy - do these people not read the spec sheet before they buy the car - it doesn't lie - 20-25 mpg from a UK Turbo is what is quoted and is what you'll get - so why moan.

Regards,

tiggers.

camk

Tiggers,
People do not think in that fashion, one car is enough for most drivers, they look for a compromise package. Why run(insurance,servicing and tax) and finance 2 cars when you can have one that does 99% of what you need. If you want to take it to its basest level why do we not all just drive Skoda's, since they are reliable, cheap and relatively comfortable. The reason is personal choice. I'd be happy to bet anything you want that there are more 5 series's on the road than X5's , its not total overall exclusivity most people seek, just exclusivity in their range of choice.
The guys/girls who buy the X5 can have a 5 or 7 series BMW or E or S Merc, they 'feel' the X5 is less common and is different than the other choices.
Obviously not however in Mycrofts car park, if you can get parked at all for the sneering wierdo's hanging about. Tyre engineers being the epitome of style and knowledge of course
I'm suprised Mycroft that you did not buy an X5 given your strange fascination with being anti-establishment, surely you driving an X5 would be the perfect situation for you to be in, the ultimate concession to Reverse snobbery. BTW got that Boxter for the summer yet .....?

I Quote "This summer The Mycroft will be driving a Boxter"

Defiant STI

It's propaganda, and we ALL know that the German's are good at that

paulmon

LMAO at this thread, yet again filled with posts from blinkered people who still think the scooby is a class leader and that all BMW drivers are Tw@ts, HELLO how **** are you lot, you are the idiots that have turned this BBS into a JOKE. Wake up and smell the java, the scooby is very good at what it does but a lot of other manufacturers now provide something that does something similar, but in a more inconspicuous manner.

There are other cars out there, some good, some bad, it's a shame that I have to read 20 posts full of bull$hit before I get to anything constructive.

P

tiggers

paulmon,

I for one never said the Scooby was the best car on the road or even top of it's class and I don't think all BMW drivers are tw@ts - just the majority of them.

For example I'm looking out of my office window now and there is a car parked across two spaces - guess what - yep BMW 5 series - what a w@nker!!

You've got to admit the BMW driving fraternity do seem to partake of more than their fair share of bad driving when you look at it on balance or maybe I'm just unlucky.

tiggers.

Bobby Peru

Oh my, not another anti BMW post, yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwww wnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bobby Peru

QUOTE "My point really is that these people buy these cars as a fashion statement and never have any intention of going off road".

Are you trying to say you have never bought a pair of running shoes to wear as a casual fashion item?

tiggers

"What if it was some dodgy parking by another car that has now gone, and it was the last space left?"

Yeah, maybe another BMW ;-) Anyway that wasn't the case, but it was just an example so let's not get too bogged down in the semantics.

tiggers

jonathanf

I have an M3 and recently tried an STi without the PPP to see what it is all about. It drove very well and sounded great but don't for one moment think that it goes as fast as an M3 in a straight line.

Also EVO test times on that track are not suited to an M3 since it will have problems with traction out of the slow bends whearas on a fast track the times may well be reversed.

Finally Subarus understeer like buggery and not all go that fast around circuits either http://www.evoposters.net/caralbums/...reza_chase.wmv

PS I did enjoy the Impreza but find 4wd very unsatisfying so will stick with my overpriced BMW tosser crap ;-)

davyboy

I often wonder how many people think BWM/M3 drivers are arrogant w@nkers etc find themselfs in a position to be able to afford one?

MMmmmmmmmmmm

Cosworth427

"I often wonder how many people think BWM/M3 drivers are arrogant w@nkers etc find themselfs in a position to be able to afford one?"

That's just the tip of the iceberg, mate. Lets not forget that most of the cant-know-nothing, wont-learn-nothing clan in this message board probable never even driven a car before, but go through great lengths on the internet in making their baseless opinion as if it is some kind of fact.