Designers and why Jap designed cars look awful...
13 May 2003, 12:11 AM
#181
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Wont be a scoob , mycroft is a closet supra owner, havent you noticed it is allways the MKiv forum he sites when moaning about being banned , never mind mycroft keep at the security guard job and one day you will be able to afford a supra .
13 May 2003, 12:21 AM
#182
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Juan... this is everything you have typed since my list...
###
HA HA HA
Thats a joke right?
You're living in cloud cuckoo land .....
###
HA HA HA
Thats a joke right?
You're living in cloud cuckoo land .....
try looking at the post dated and timed:
Monday, May 12, 2003 02:26
I know you're getting towards pensionable age so maybe you should get those ol eyes tested? I even included a bunch of pics. Sorry kissbutt claud and iain but most of your examples do not look like a soarer
YOU MUST TRY TO READ THE TEXT.
[Edited by juan - 5/13/2003 12:28:18 AM]
13 May 2003, 08:16 AM
#183
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Juan...
your post of... Monday, May 12, 2003 02:26 contains only statements and no questions...
So no answer was/is possible...
--------------------------
Troll...
I have zero desire to own a Supra, honest...
It really is as out of date now as the MK3 was when the MKIV forum started, it looks incredibly dated, that is also one of the awful problems with so many Japanese designs.
.. they age badly.
.. a few transcend this.
.. but they have European overtones.
.. the NSX (Ferraris of the past).
.. Soarer (Ex-Pininfarina designer).
.. Original Toyota 2000GT (E-Type Jaguar)
Why would I buy a Supra, they are slow, lumpy, ugly, out of date cars with faulted dynamics, faulted Monocoques with faulted handling.
.. that is your choice.
.. and welcome to it!
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 8:38:24 AM]
your post of... Monday, May 12, 2003 02:26 contains only statements and no questions...
So no answer was/is possible...
--------------------------
Troll...
I have zero desire to own a Supra, honest...
It really is as out of date now as the MK3 was when the MKIV forum started, it looks incredibly dated, that is also one of the awful problems with so many Japanese designs.
.. they age badly.
.. a few transcend this.
.. but they have European overtones.
.. the NSX (Ferraris of the past).
.. Soarer (Ex-Pininfarina designer).
.. Original Toyota 2000GT (E-Type Jaguar)
Why would I buy a Supra, they are slow, lumpy, ugly, out of date cars with faulted dynamics, faulted Monocoques with faulted handling.
.. that is your choice.
.. and welcome to it!
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 8:38:24 AM]
13 May 2003, 11:30 AM
#184
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You won't believe this - I've found Mycroft's website, a link to his vast knowledge and experience....
http://www.mycroft.org/
PMSL
http://www.mycroft.org/
PMSL
13 May 2003, 12:48 PM
#185
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Why is it that, when some genuine questions are asked of MyCroft (downforce distribution, how he achieved it etc etc) there is always a tirade of abuse that follows?
I'm not surprised that MyCroft doesn't bother answering
I'm not surprised that MyCroft doesn't bother answering
13 May 2003, 01:49 PM
#186
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How did we get the sudden flourish of curvy shapes in the M.*** P.roduced car World in the early/mid nineties?
Have a look at the way MP cars were shaped prior to the early 90’s… there are no MP amorphous shapes… the composite curve and multi-transitional curve was the sole province of the ‘Hand-made’ car… or in the case of the E-type bonnet… pressed by machine welded and hand finished… we just could not produce those feline shapes with a press that needs constant replacement of its formers… it was not possible with any economy… in the mid 80’s there was a Computer revolution and it involved the tie between CAD and what came to be known as CAM… it meant that for the first time we had a Computer controlled machine that made a Computer controlled machine that made the formers perfectly and economically for the presses… the first car plant in the World to have these presses was the Lexus plant at the Main Toyota A22 plant in Japan…
In fact the place was purpose-built for this… and even the chosen design of the car was purposeful… as we now know the domain of the composite curves was the hand-built cars of the UK and Italy… the brief was simple… get a design that had overtones of the UK/Italian cars and make it on these presses… No Japanese designer was up to the task, if you look at all the cars designed at that time (1988/89), even at the highest end they were all confined to the more ‘2dimensional’ lines of MP cars, look at the RX7 or the S13 Silvia or the ZX, the gen2 Soarers of even that ‘Icon’ the R32… they all have that similar straight lined razor edged designs… in Europe BMW had the Galleons that were the 6 and 8 series… simple curves abounded… only in Italy and the UK were there the swept line and sexual feline curve of the amorphous line.
The Soarer was the first production car in the World that had this new innovation… it lead the World.
Ever wondered why the R33 Skyline looked so different from the R32? Now you know.
The same applies to the change from the S13 to the S14 Silvia, the sudden curviness of the newer RX7? Same again, the Change in the big Honda coupes’ they too changed in ’93 as the technology spread down the line… they all owe their sudden voluptuousness to this change my car was the first in this as well as so many other things…
They all followed in the wake of the 30 series Soarers… every damned one…
Even the bracing for the bonnet/boot/door etc was curved subtly, so NVH was minimised... the bonnet of the Soarer has no less than 56 nodal curves to form its shape... it is made in one pressing... they really 'went to town' on this car... they pushed the envelope at the time... no other MP car until very recently had such complexity of curve and line...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 2:07:56 PM]
Have a look at the way MP cars were shaped prior to the early 90’s… there are no MP amorphous shapes… the composite curve and multi-transitional curve was the sole province of the ‘Hand-made’ car… or in the case of the E-type bonnet… pressed by machine welded and hand finished… we just could not produce those feline shapes with a press that needs constant replacement of its formers… it was not possible with any economy… in the mid 80’s there was a Computer revolution and it involved the tie between CAD and what came to be known as CAM… it meant that for the first time we had a Computer controlled machine that made a Computer controlled machine that made the formers perfectly and economically for the presses… the first car plant in the World to have these presses was the Lexus plant at the Main Toyota A22 plant in Japan…
In fact the place was purpose-built for this… and even the chosen design of the car was purposeful… as we now know the domain of the composite curves was the hand-built cars of the UK and Italy… the brief was simple… get a design that had overtones of the UK/Italian cars and make it on these presses… No Japanese designer was up to the task, if you look at all the cars designed at that time (1988/89), even at the highest end they were all confined to the more ‘2dimensional’ lines of MP cars, look at the RX7 or the S13 Silvia or the ZX, the gen2 Soarers of even that ‘Icon’ the R32… they all have that similar straight lined razor edged designs… in Europe BMW had the Galleons that were the 6 and 8 series… simple curves abounded… only in Italy and the UK were there the swept line and sexual feline curve of the amorphous line.
The Soarer was the first production car in the World that had this new innovation… it lead the World.
Ever wondered why the R33 Skyline looked so different from the R32? Now you know.
The same applies to the change from the S13 to the S14 Silvia, the sudden curviness of the newer RX7? Same again, the Change in the big Honda coupes’ they too changed in ’93 as the technology spread down the line… they all owe their sudden voluptuousness to this change my car was the first in this as well as so many other things…
They all followed in the wake of the 30 series Soarers… every damned one…
Even the bracing for the bonnet/boot/door etc was curved subtly, so NVH was minimised... the bonnet of the Soarer has no less than 56 nodal curves to form its shape... it is made in one pressing... they really 'went to town' on this car... they pushed the envelope at the time... no other MP car until very recently had such complexity of curve and line...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 2:07:56 PM]
13 May 2003, 02:33 PM
#187
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Anyone see Mycroft on The Fast Show?
mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-Lexus Soarer-mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-A22 Plant-mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-Copied by Aston and Jag-mumble-mumble-faster than an F1 car-mumble-mutter-needless to say I was very, VERY drunk (I'd just been clubbing in Newbury)
mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-Lexus Soarer-mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-A22 Plant-mumble-mumble-mutter-mutter-Copied by Aston and Jag-mumble-mumble-faster than an F1 car-mumble-mutter-needless to say I was very, VERY drunk (I'd just been clubbing in Newbury)
13 May 2003, 03:38 PM
#188
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Camk, noticed this in muppets... did you get lost?
###
BTW my interest was sparked by the CAD/CAM info, interesting article in that its not designers but manufacturing that had been the obstacle to more curvy designs. Lose the ego and you will be an asset on here, honestly there is hope.
###
Yes, back then we were stuck with simple presses and simple mechanical actions... a lot could be done but the machinery was not available... with the new acurate control of pressure and turn amazing shapes could be formed and the shut lines still perfect...
The designers were let loose a little and curves proliferated for a while... we see the 'backlash’ now with some truly slab sided or [in reality] large radius curved sides and strakes... the Koreans have never really calmed down from this sudden freedom and the first Hyundai Coupe had more curves that a troop of belly-dancers in a Bombay Opium den.
If I lose 'the ego' as you call it then I cease to be me...and don’t patronise me… I don’t appreciate it.
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 4:03:10 PM]
###
BTW my interest was sparked by the CAD/CAM info, interesting article in that its not designers but manufacturing that had been the obstacle to more curvy designs. Lose the ego and you will be an asset on here, honestly there is hope.
###
Yes, back then we were stuck with simple presses and simple mechanical actions... a lot could be done but the machinery was not available... with the new acurate control of pressure and turn amazing shapes could be formed and the shut lines still perfect...
The designers were let loose a little and curves proliferated for a while... we see the 'backlash’ now with some truly slab sided or [in reality] large radius curved sides and strakes... the Koreans have never really calmed down from this sudden freedom and the first Hyundai Coupe had more curves that a troop of belly-dancers in a Bombay Opium den.
If I lose 'the ego' as you call it then I cease to be me...and don’t patronise me… I don’t appreciate it.
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 4:03:10 PM]
13 May 2003, 05:46 PM
#190
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Pepper & Mycroft,
The context of certain posts that you both make, are both insulting and unacceptable. Kerb this kind of behaviour, else action will be taken.
You have BOTH now been warned.
Regards,
Shaun.
The context of certain posts that you both make, are both insulting and unacceptable. Kerb this kind of behaviour, else action will be taken.
You have BOTH now been warned.
Regards,
Shaun.
13 May 2003, 05:50 PM
#191
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1)RX-7 Mk3
Not too much time spent driving one of these... liked it but was skittish... never felt planted... needs revised castor and has to have the rear suspension softened... the front is fine apart from the castor... very tyre intolerant apparently... I drove on SO2s' seemed fine. RIGHT FOOT REAR STEERER.
2)GTO
didn't like it, to softened and blunted... had turn in but was aloof from the start always felt just not quite in touch with the chassis... woolly is how I would describe it. never really wanted too much of it but it did grip very well although the understeer caught me out in the dry... too much control. Power steering absolutely the worst... also does the 'big car' rock... bad thing.
3)Supra MKIV
Too nose up and therefore never felt sure of the weight on the front, the geometry is fine although the front damping felt softer than it needed... more progressive springing is the cure... the car suffers snaking due to tyre/wheel/diff combo, rear damping awful on rebound, to soggy at the rear. Steering vague variable steering set too assisted can be halved safely... also does the big car rock.
4)300ZX
I liked this car, felt planted and had some rawness to the controls... has the best steering on any listed... has good dynamics and the slow path signals let you really push the car in bends... a well sorted 300zx will stay with an RX7... simply better adhesion and equal dynamics... if you can get past the big car 'angst' of carting such a weight. doesn't do the big car rock until right on it... usually terminal...
5)NSX
Confession time... best handling Japanese car until they spoilt it after chassis 900 and something, they sofetened the rates... the first ones are twice as good to drive as the ones after that first year... does nothing wrong... spend £1400 on the Mugen setup for her and any NSX will be better than a 355... they really are that good... I will buy a Silver early model one day and do precisely that... in standard form they were softened and lost that razor-edge handling but even then way above all the rest in the list in every department... deserves and merits cult status... far too good for the Western World to admit... Ayrton Senna was apparently very annoyed when they changed the original suspension rates etc that he had spent so much time getting perfect... get an early one and you literally drive the car the man himself sorted... I love these cars.
Not too much time spent driving one of these... liked it but was skittish... never felt planted... needs revised castor and has to have the rear suspension softened... the front is fine apart from the castor... very tyre intolerant apparently... I drove on SO2s' seemed fine. RIGHT FOOT REAR STEERER.
2)GTO
didn't like it, to softened and blunted... had turn in but was aloof from the start always felt just not quite in touch with the chassis... woolly is how I would describe it. never really wanted too much of it but it did grip very well although the understeer caught me out in the dry... too much control. Power steering absolutely the worst... also does the 'big car' rock... bad thing.
3)Supra MKIV
Too nose up and therefore never felt sure of the weight on the front, the geometry is fine although the front damping felt softer than it needed... more progressive springing is the cure... the car suffers snaking due to tyre/wheel/diff combo, rear damping awful on rebound, to soggy at the rear. Steering vague variable steering set too assisted can be halved safely... also does the big car rock.
4)300ZX
I liked this car, felt planted and had some rawness to the controls... has the best steering on any listed... has good dynamics and the slow path signals let you really push the car in bends... a well sorted 300zx will stay with an RX7... simply better adhesion and equal dynamics... if you can get past the big car 'angst' of carting such a weight. doesn't do the big car rock until right on it... usually terminal...
5)NSX
Confession time... best handling Japanese car until they spoilt it after chassis 900 and something, they sofetened the rates... the first ones are twice as good to drive as the ones after that first year... does nothing wrong... spend £1400 on the Mugen setup for her and any NSX will be better than a 355... they really are that good... I will buy a Silver early model one day and do precisely that... in standard form they were softened and lost that razor-edge handling but even then way above all the rest in the list in every department... deserves and merits cult status... far too good for the Western World to admit... Ayrton Senna was apparently very annoyed when they changed the original suspension rates etc that he had spent so much time getting perfect... get an early one and you literally drive the car the man himself sorted... I love these cars.
13 May 2003, 05:55 PM
#192
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Shaun... bad post... wrong thread... off-topic and un-necessary...
Forget it... fools are fools and they remain that even with education...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 6:08:00 PM]
Forget it... fools are fools and they remain that even with education...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 6:08:00 PM]
13 May 2003, 06:09 PM
#193
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The warning goes to both of you, as each other eggs the other on. I suggest that you be "Man enough" to except this. May I also remind you that this is not the first time you have been warned or been involved in mud slinging matches. The forum rules are clear, and I'm sure even you can understand them! If you don't abide by them or agree with the moderating, then please leave and frequent another board.
As regards to me "doing my job properly", you can be confident that is exactly what I am doing. I have been contacted personally by both members of the community and other moderators, so I hardly think this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Any further retaliation or non compliance in the forum guidelines, will result in action being taken.
Regards,
Shaun.
As regards to me "doing my job properly", you can be confident that is exactly what I am doing. I have been contacted personally by both members of the community and other moderators, so I hardly think this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Any further retaliation or non compliance in the forum guidelines, will result in action being taken.
Regards,
Shaun.
13 May 2003, 06:19 PM
#194
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Have you looked through this thread?
I have ignored the fool... all I do is if he gets a cohort then I will kick off... the moderating has failed in this and dozens of threads... that weakness is not mine the fault lies elsewhere... go back through this thread... I am not alone in thinking this...
I repeat do your job properly...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 6:20:57 PM]
I have ignored the fool... all I do is if he gets a cohort then I will kick off... the moderating has failed in this and dozens of threads... that weakness is not mine the fault lies elsewhere... go back through this thread... I am not alone in thinking this...
I repeat do your job properly...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 6:20:57 PM]
13 May 2003, 06:55 PM
#196
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Get real: Mycroft is talking about cars and he does it with a sense of humour. It's a fun read. Pepper, however, comes in every other post saying d!ck, PSML, tw@t and the like.
You may not like his humour, and some people may not understand it, but I would regret seeing him go just because Pepper or others provoke him...
You may not like his humour, and some people may not understand it, but I would regret seeing him go just because Pepper or others provoke him...
13 May 2003, 07:38 PM
#198
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lol at Mycroft, if they do their job properly you would be removed for being antagonistic and more trouble than you are worth. These people have to now spend time trawling through the huge amount of good stuff and drivel you post to see who you have insulted next.
You were removed from mkivsupra.net for exactly the same reasons, just too high a price to pay for your technical 'expertise'. Im sure sxoc took the same approach and theres many other BBSs you frequent that no doubt have to spend time specially reviewing any posts you are involved in. You really must think highly of yourself if you are happy for these people who donate their time to have to give you special attention, but yet you continue with your waste of bandwidth that you call discussions.
I personally hope the mods 'do their job' as you put it, removing you from the BBS would massively reduce their workload and allow them to spend time enjoying the BBS and not spend time tidying up threads you get involved with.
JB
You were removed from mkivsupra.net for exactly the same reasons, just too high a price to pay for your technical 'expertise'. Im sure sxoc took the same approach and theres many other BBSs you frequent that no doubt have to spend time specially reviewing any posts you are involved in. You really must think highly of yourself if you are happy for these people who donate their time to have to give you special attention, but yet you continue with your waste of bandwidth that you call discussions.
I personally hope the mods 'do their job' as you put it, removing you from the BBS would massively reduce their workload and allow them to spend time enjoying the BBS and not spend time tidying up threads you get involved with.
JB
13 May 2003, 07:48 PM
#200
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Branners, i don't know what Mycroft did to you or your pay-per-post BBS, but i personally don't have ANY problem with his attitude, and it seems that i'm not the only one. Even if he copies and pastes, i don't really care because it saves me time from looking in google. Why does an individual have to be P.C. in order to be widely acceptable?
13 May 2003, 07:53 PM
#201
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'Branners'... you are as bad as the rest... you pile in here and try to wind me up... you have banned people on the MKIV for less... you are shatteringly hypocritical... I am posting reasonable stuff and a fool interjects... in this instance the fool is you!
Yet again you post rubbish and I am expected to wade through your **** and say nothing... you were told in no uncertain terms on the GTR site that you were not to behave like that on there and yet within a week you are here doing the same thing you apparently abhor so much...
You have, to say the least, a well developed 'idiot streak'...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 7:55:59 PM]
Yet again you post rubbish and I am expected to wade through your **** and say nothing... you were told in no uncertain terms on the GTR site that you were not to behave like that on there and yet within a week you are here doing the same thing you apparently abhor so much...
You have, to say the least, a well developed 'idiot streak'...
[Edited by Mycroft - 5/13/2003 7:55:59 PM]
13 May 2003, 07:59 PM
#206
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lol again at Mycroft, you were banned from mkivsupra.net and sxoc for being a tosser, yet you still do it on other BBSs. When you behave yourself on all BBSs like you do on the GTR one then people will have some respect for you. Until then your fan club will follow you about.
JB
JB
13 May 2003, 08:03 PM
#209
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IIRC, there was a guy that had this a signature:
He may walk like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you, he really is an idiot.
Now, who may that be ?!?!!??!
He may walk like an idiot and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you, he really is an idiot.
Now, who may that be ?!?!!??!
