John STI 8

FYI the last Porsche to use the Weissach trailing arm type suspension was the 964. The 993 and 996 use a 5-link setup. I've noticed that the question of weight distribution has come about, though I have yet to read any figures regarding the CoG (particularly the height), which I would assume (maybe incorrectly) would be in the porsches favour.

And don't have a go at the automotive engineer, we come in many flavours, not all of us are suspension experts (I know I'm certainly not). J

[Edited by John STI 8 - 4/12/2003 9:00:16 AM]

Mycroft

Entirely correct John... a greater part of that weight will be behind the rear axle not within the 2 axles... so although the real distribution is as the figures show the apparent road attributes will be those of a car that at times will be closer to 20/80 F/R and this causes front-to-rear yaw... in an endeavour to stop the average Porsche driver from killing himself the car is engineered to behave kinematically in the most compromised manner imagineable... that wonderful 'engineering' is in fact only close tolerance control... combined with this necessity to fiddle with the kinematics...

Some may say so what?

Well, such weight behind the rear axle means that the balance scale is jittery... think of an old set of balance scales it is difficult to stop them swinging up and down, now the front-rear loading on a Porsche is as erratic as that... by putting the weight inside the wheel base you effectively 'damp' the movement... Porsches design precludes this natural tendency and exaggerates it... to compensate, Porsche 'engineer in' damping... to someone who knows about this sort of stuff the car feels contrived and deceitful throughout its entire 'performance' envelope and an aware driver feels this... Porsches market isn't really the fast kids of the past... it is a trinket for so many, so they get away with this dreadful compromise.

The track cars are really very different and another story entirely... that is why I quite like the Kremer I drove it wasn't really a road car and was right in your face with the compromises and shouted them to even the most insensitive driver... but as a serious road car it was then faulted as being a 'fatigue-merchant' and nothing lengthens x-country times more than fatigue... but it was a bloody laugh a minute... even though there could be only 30 minutes of it at a time...

[Edited by Mycroft - 4/12/2003 9:48:02 AM]

Mycroft

All of you out there... a bit of 'knock-about' can add to a thread... it gets an audience and so long as the final curtain brings something of value it will remain with you for life... our memory likes events... and a bust up thread is an event and bloody funny too... chill out kids... one thing I have found and it may help some of you out there... if you are an only child or a bit of a loner you may find 'knock-about a bit hard to take... that is down to not having brothers or sisters who kicked and teased you as a kid... almost all the 'appalled by this' guys will be either only child, youngest child or spoilt child... sadly it really is true...

(Mycroft... also Carl Jungs' smarter brother who damaged little Carl by locking him in a cupboard when he was a kid)

Enjoy or stop playing and bugger off!

[Edited by Mycroft - 4/12/2003 10:01:01 AM]

basal_lobe

[img]http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/images/letters/plusmember.gif
[/img]

Strange how the insecure resort to saying "I'd show you if we meet face to face" or some other meaningless rubbish to express their anger. Usually because they have lost the argument.

So far the facts as I see them are this

1.911 turbo is a nicely built car with a good stereo that is pretty quick compared to most things

2.It is also unquestionably a compromised design.

3.Technology and evolution have led to this design being a reasonably good road car.

edited to clarify a point about image
4.It is still a triumph of perceived style and image over ultimate design purity and focus.

All my opinion (and that of many others far better qualified to judge than I). I also notice that the people I know at work who drive them really are not interested in cars it is just a status symbol to them.

911 a nice trinket/toy but not really the ultimate driving machine at all. Still if you have the cash to waste and don't care about image (most people have a low opinion of Porsche drivers) then I guess they are pretty good.

I think if I wanted to pose around in a reasonably fast car I'd go for an SL55 AMG merc. At least it doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.


[Edited by basal_lobe - 4/12/2003 10:52:10 AM]

MooseRacer

Funny isn't it, we're actually not a million miles apart in our views MyCroft. LOL.

If you think the modern '911' would scare average Joe - for god's sake don't put them in an early 70's RS

Onwards and upwards, the sun is shining, I'll leave you to it MyCroft

[Edited by MooseRacer - 4/12/2003 11:00:51 AM]

Mycroft

Just to show how un-biased I am... I am buying a little Boxster for the summer, it is a nice open top car and not too waring, so it will be the Mycroft Open Cruiser this summer... I'll ditch it as Autumn approaches... last years summer cruiser... Honda S2K was crap... I hope for better from the Borsch Pox-star!

[Edited by Mycroft - 4/12/2003 11:16:24 AM]

Claudius

HAhahahaa! You've got to be kidding me! LOL Are you driving that thing down to France? Let me know when your birthday is, I might just offer you an engine for it HAHAHA
but hey, at least you dont get the engine hanging over the rear bumper! LOL

[Edited by Claudius - 4/12/2003 11:33:07 AM]

juan

that is a p155 take right Mycroft?

Claudius - It doesn't seem fair that you should have 2 evos and a scooby and I only have a Panda. Can I borrow one of yours while you use the other?

[Edited by juan - 4/12/2003 11:41:26 AM]

juan

I got plans don't you worry!
A scoob munching Fiat for starters - should be here in a couple of months.

(not the Panda FIRE either - though that would be an interesting project)

[Edited by juan - 4/12/2003 11:50:36 AM]

Mycroft

Well actually I have sorta... my G/Fs sister had one... so I do have first hand experience of those cars and the amount of times I had to rescue her or try to get the damned thing started I might as well have owned the fvcking useless piece of ****... She now drives a rather cute little Honda S2K... my summer car of last year... she never calls me now... she is very beautiful so that is sad but in truth it's a bloody relief...

[Edited by Mycroft - 4/12/2003 12:11:30 PM]

juan

Sorry - disappointing response from one so intelligent and smug.
You can present most things in any way you want using 'examples' from the web.

The ratio of joy to problems on the FCT site is much higher than say this one for example.

Ooh look what I've found:
http://www.986faq.com/10-0/problems.asp
Must mean all boxsters are rubbish in your book then??

Cheerio

[Edited by juan - 4/13/2003 9:53:25 PM]