I thought of that !
But I assume (again ) that they foul when fitted, with engine in position.

Andy

 

So the thing you would be welding back in place would allow clearance still?

Be nicer to be able to lift engine in and out without removing headers.. but then if it has to come out then mostlikely the headers will have to come off anyway..

Fuzz you must be right..

Perhaps we should wait for David to fill up in..

Simon

 

shift the engine over to one side

Andy

 

no offence you two.. but look at the fooking picures.. how the **** am I going to fit them after.. especially as there is external wastegate pipework and also a bracket to be fitted yet..

tsk tsk tsk..

they foul the left side of the subframe.. will cut out curve and weld box section in hopefully

David

 

David,

Those headers will not work, I'm just off out but I'll explain later.

 

 

"Don't work" was perhaps a little strong

I use the same manifold. The joints expand and bleed off pressure, greatly effecting spool up. You can hear them blowing at idle. I don't get 1bar until over 4000rpm (and that's in 5th) - p20 EH, and don't hit peak boost until over 100mph. LOL. Not very practical. They are jigged for a STI7, hence a few clearance issues.

However it's not all bad news, once a certain pressure (and temp) is achieved they appear to stop expanding and then they do produce the goods. IIRC max duty cycle was increased from 83 to 95% (fuel pressure was also upped a little more) to hit the same wideband AFR.

I'm going to try fitting stronger springs and a smattering of lockwire - It may end in tears though

 

I think any sort of springs are to be avoided. Curved or slotted tie bars are required IMHO.

Back pressure will blow the thing apart.

Hypoluxa, I thought you meant it would be no good for power, which is what David thought too I believe.

Paul

 

hypoluxa, are you sure yours are the same???

Slip joints are very good on them, and when I spoke to paul iirc (at tony law) they werent jigged for an sti 7 (not that it matters..) if slip joints blow then Ill weld the ******* up..

Think im joking?? Try Me

David

 

Yes David they are the same. I had one of the first. Had to remove the EGT boss from the uppipe (off 3&4) for it to fit (STi5). I spoke to Paul about this, and that's when he mentioned the STi7. I have not spoken to him regarding the pressure loss though.

You will have to do something regarding the joints, end off. Judging by the amount they expand they would probably crack within a matter of minutes if welded. Apart from the expansion arrangement they are of very good design.

Sorry to be alarmist on the power front btw

 

David

My concern was the material ? I think mild steel (if that's what they are) will have a fatigue issue, cycling at 900+ degC ?
Paul, your a material person what do you think ?

Andy

 

Id hav thought the heat thing would have been the only issue. I have heard of a manifold actually melt before ( although it was some years ago, and it was made of box section...lol ) Im sure that it wasnt running very efficiently either.
But as we all know, these things do get hot.
I agree tho, that if they leak, weld em up. Mild steel expands less than stainless, so if a stainless one can stay together with no expansion joints, then I dont think mild steel should have any problems.

 

Sorry it was a boring evening.. had to find a thread to reply too..

Simon

 

The joints on this manifold are not single sleeved, they are double sleeved if you know what i mean, and they a bloody tight, and very well made IMO.

I would be surprised if they leak and did not work, given that they are an "improved design" on a certain set of headers we all(well most of us) know.

Steven

 

Which headers are you refering to Steven?

Oh and prepare yourself for a surprise

 

wooosh..


something just went over my head..



I can see me and stevie getting on, grinder and welder if that doesnt fix it then.. hmm we are both stuck :d

**** theory.. tie bar means **** need pics or simple expliantions.

hypoluxa where about do you live??

David

 

i was referring to Davids headers.

Given that these are custom made, and supposedly one off design.... ahh well, i'll shut up, easier

Steven

 

Back in the dim and distant past (ie when I hated all modern cars and would only srive classics) I knee a company who would not use staiinless at all for exhausts. They used a particularly good grade of mild steel (which one I can't remember) which barely suffered corrosion.

Stainless I have been told isn't ideal for manifolds because it tends to expand more and is prone to fatigue cracking when it goes through enough heat cycles...mild steel on the other hand doesn't suffer the heat cycling issues to the same degree

 

tim this is also what I was told and are you pissed?

Anyway they dont fit on the car.. once I have made the car fit the exhaust time will tell

 

'Think im joking?? Try Me'


Classic Wallis, just classic...

 

Near Derby David.

Most, if not all aftermarket manifolds (with slip joints) use tie bars (Maxim, Jun, HKS etc)

 

If it leaks, weld the ****** up. Whats the worst that can happen ??, it will blow a gasket.
Need I say more. They all seem to blow gaskets anyway. Id say the mild steel versions will be much better in this respect.
As for scaling or whatever with the heat. I wouldnt worry at all. Ive used botched together manifolds for ages. I havent had bits falling of them yet. They stay very clean.
I just use black iron welding bends, for plumbing/gas. Good thick wall stuff.

 

David may i suggest you use my semi famous phrase of FIIBR

Works for me

 

would someone please fix this stupid BB software it's very annoying.

 

David, I was/am completely sober just wasn't watching what I was typing, or doing an Adam as it's known in the trade

(you won't beleive the number of mistakes I made in this message!)

 

steven

off in the garage to make the car fit around the exhaust now..

Tim, I would (as you mentioned adam )

David

 

David

Have you got your proper engine back yet? Or are you trying to fit the headers around the spare engine? Would there be any dimension differences between the two engines that would help?

Is chopping the subframe and welding bits in a safe way to get it to fit, or is modding the header pipes better?

Are you on target for TOTB ?

Keep the report and picies going...makes good reading.

Neil.

 

No proper engine as yet... only dimension changes will be gasket thickness.. etc.. matter of mm's

Chopping subframe is easiest way..

No really on target for totb.. but will try my best..

anyway..

Update.. will post pics tonight..

Engine is in and does fit.. Powersteering pipes into rack however do not.. engine is bolted to box to check allignment etc..

Exhaust sits on subframe so will alter by about 7mm to eliminate noise (most likely to sound like aps pipework..) engine will not shove over enough.. I also prefer my engine to sit in the centre!

Andy made flange for PS pump at weekend and enlarged existing one to about 10 / 11mm

all spacers are now done and two are instant gasket'ed together :O

<Shut it> Do you know how much four inlet manifold gaskets cost, let alone six. </shut it>

David

 

You're putting a 6 cylinder in there? ****!

 

Hmmm

Manifold - gasket - spacer - gasket - head ... repeat for other bank. So 4 gaskets used.

Where would 6 gaskets come in? If there were 3 spacers ... but then just instant gasket them as mentioned above?


Arghh, obvious.... if using 2 spacers with a gasket between each one... gotcha!


Neil