RichardPON

On the 1st September, I raced a Nova with a Calibra Turbo lump in at Santa Pod. I ran a 13.7, and he ran a 14.2, and I thought that was bloody quick for a Nova.

We started chatting, as I was naturally inquisitive about this poxy shed that had only been .5 of a second behind my apparently all conquering cossie.... I asked him about the car, and he said it was a pig off the line. He mentioned the words torque steer a lot, and the word understeer cropped up when I mentioned track days.....

I found him genuine to chat to, because as much as I dislike the people who drive Novas/Saxos and the like (massive sweeping generalisation, I know), he was openly admitting his car's faults. I had a lot of time for him, since he wasn't a "my car keeps up with such and such round the M25" type - he ran 1/4s, track sessions etc, and was actively aware that he got blitzed by most proper cars round circuit, but enjoyed the fact that it surpried a few people on the road, and put a smile on HIS face. At the end of the day, it's whatever floats your boat.

It's absolutely NOTHING to do with how much money you have or how much power is under the bonnet. If you think you can outhandle a scoob because you've got some coilovers on, then you're sorely mistaken.

I was witness, and have on video, a Porsche 911, and a track prepped cossie being destroyed at the Nurburgring by a scooby. It wasn't a 22B, P1, or even a Type R..... it was a scooby sport! Mr felstead knows a thing or two about driving and found the car to be well set up - that's why Subaru spent x amount of millions designing it, and not whacking a set of coilovers on in the garage!

I'm not taking the pi55 in the slightest Mr Nova man, because I'm sure your car is obscenely fast, but there is every CHANCE you couldn't drive a slippery stick up a dog's ****!

Put a racing driver in your car and any scoob, and I know the scoob would lap far quicker, regardless of how much power the Nova has, because the scoob HANDLES!!!!!!!!!!

NOS nova

my car handles ok but its straight line power is enough to beat most scoobys

yes, my sh1tty little rusty nova is faster than a scooby!

its faster and cost a fraction of your jap crap!



[Edited by NOS nova - 9/21/2002 9:40:22 PM]

rich uk300

obviously went straight over the proverbial head

LG John

When co55ie first started posting about his starship cosworth I pointed out that there are peeps running around in super fast 2.0 turbo Nova's that are faster and cost less than his. I would apply the same logic to you NOS Nova but unfortunately as far as I can tell your dangling at the bottom of the performance car food chain it don't get any crapper!

Your car may be fast but it is crap compaired to a saph cossie, which is crap compaired to a scooby, which is crap compaired to an M3, which is crap compaired to a 911 turbo, and so on. Hope you see my point

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

looks like it rich

NOS nova

i admit my car is ****,but there is no need to be snobby about it!

so you think you car is better than a cossie do you???

even a 500bhp saph 4x4 that would eat you alive up the strip,on a track and on the road???

so what is better about it,looks????

to me the scooby looks like a proton with bonnet vents!!!!!!!!!

rich uk300

WoIfie

Im not going to post again after this as i like this forum and hope to have a few other dicussions in the future

I know i am stating the obvious but the subaru owners seem to have been put out by this thread, chill out guys no-one denies your cars are fast around the bends, i really should be and would not deserve the rep it has if it couldent.

Nova nut your car seems very rapid but........ any idiot can drive fast in a straight line inc other marque owners so bragging your car is fast down the straights give you no cred at all! also i bought a 1.3 sr in 88 when they had a facelift ( and they were cool ) the car lasted 800 mls i jumped a bridge and bent the shell, now i dident jump very high and have jumped higher in far crappier cars, also i landed on all 4 wheels, what i am trying to say is the shells are very very weak and were not strong enough really for the 1.6, i would get a multipoint cage matey as i wouldent like to have a whack at the speeds you can get.

Also nova nut if a subaru had the same performance mods your car has do you really think you would be able to beat them ?? i think not !

last point someone said " dont lower yourself to cossie or novas level " thats a really sad statement i myself am looking for a good 3dr cossie as its a performance icon and the original turbo nutters car for the masses, the cossie (and mk2 escorts) are still beating evos scoobies ect ect in club ralling

regards wolfie

LG John

I appologise wolfie I said that. I try not to sterotype but it is very difficult with the attitudes of some of the non-subaru drivers that have been posting of late.

NOS I'm sorry to say but yes I think my car is better than a cossie (note the I, as in me) for a whole multitude of reasons. Mainly cause the scooby has power, handling, looks, practicality, turns heads, comfy(ish) and most importantly none of these things suffer when the weather turns bad or the road conditions suck. It's the complete package.

Also, whilst my car is nothing particularly special I'll bet if you took a random sample of the UK population and asked them to pick one to keep forever more would ask for my scooby than your Nova.

LG John

I'm not being snobby I'm just trying to get you to realise that just because your car can beat some subaru's it isn't the be all and end all of the world.

I think nike (I think) said it best, 'power is nothing without control'

LG John

??? What's with the funny error code on page 12???

LG John

Ah, fixed now

NOS nova

and control is nothing without power!

Rich and Mini

Saxo, I said that about the Scooby owners in this particular thread for that very reason, have another read through the pages and see what they have been saying.

Regarding coilovers on the Nova, I said that simply because Novas are not renound for their handling ability, so with some 15s, nice tyres, some coilovers, strut brace and a 'cage, it'd at least be able to say that it tried its best to keep up with a Scooby. You can only do so much...

I'm a non Scooby owner, yes. That's because at the age of 18 ( just ) no way would I be able to afford, insure or run a Scooby. However, that's not to say I've no experience with Subarus. I've been in a fair few Imprezas, including Sports and modified Turbos, as well as just about everyone Legacy from the range, and a couple of Foresters.

Also, just because I'm a newbie here, does that mean I can't put across my opinions? Or do I have to have 500+ posts to act like a moron? I'm a newbie here, but in the Mini community I have about 1500 posts, so I'm used to this forum type talk now.

Rich

PS - I didn't categorise you as one of the owners with head up ring piece experience, Sax.

PPS - just because of my age, doesn't mean I don't have a lot of driving experience in various cars..

PPS - ( this is getting silly now! ) I'd of supercharged the VTS, torque steer is fun! But at least the supercharger is progressive power all the way through.

Gaz Jones

honestly, my mate had a corsa, it had a turbo engine out of a calibra...
it was fast, I don`t deny that, but it handled like a bread bin on wheels..
o.k what have you spent on your sh!tter i mean nova anyway.
I bet you could of had a nice scooby, and modded, also leaving change to take the bird out..

get a life, you are in the same boat as alex cabrio.

FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE

I dont even have a scooby, im not biased towards scoobies. In fact I like volkswagens.
Im waiting for a proper car, comes in 1 month golf gttdi 150.
stop being sad, i spent nearly 10 grand on my mk2 16v golf, when it got nicked I got £3700. It aint worth it.

Unless its a scoob...

gaz


[Edited by Gaz Jones - 9/22/2002 2:45:41 AM]

Alberick

Oh, It looks like I'm getting on somebody's nerves??
Well, guy (Rich-mini-whatever), that's exactly the desired effect...so my little fella, tell me what's your problem? Did I hurt your feelings?

OH and Nos Nova....I got your problem now, the "jap-crap" xenophobic syndrom is with you....yeah I understand you very well, my friend.....but you (and others like Cossie) can do something about it....don't spend all your money on coils, calibra engines, like go out, see the world, read some books, meet other people (from other countries)...se what I mean? You'll see you will be healed in no time.

DreXeL

Nova: You say we have our heads up our *****, but you fail to acknowledge that your nova is an inferior car to ANY scooby. Ok, it my be faster when you finally get the power down, but it's a NOVA for Christs sake. If you really think it's a better all round car than a Scooby then you are the one with your head up your ****.

Why am I even bothering? You won't listen. You'll just come back and say 'it's faster in a straight line....' Yada...yada...yada....

GO AWAY!!!!!!!!

NOS nova

how many times do i have to say it???????

MY NOVA IS ****......**** **** **** ****

BUT ITS FASTER THAN MOST SCOOBYS!!!!!!!

rich uk300

he don't listen too well

your nova is quick....not argueing about that.....but for day to day driving you'll still get eaten up by scoobs cos fun ain't in a straight line

NOS nova

TWISTIES TWISTIES TWISTIES

do you lot not get sick of saying it???

DreXeL

STRAIGHT LINE... STRAIGHT LINE..... STRAIGHT LINE

Don't you get sick of saying that?

DreXeL

Why are you bothering? Do you think we are all going to go out and sell our scoobys and build 300bhp Novas? We dont give a $hit about your poxy Nova, your not interested in our scoobys. Just give it up.

[Edited by DreXeL - 9/22/2002 10:48:30 AM]

WoIfie

can this thread be closed ?? its pointless now ??

323GTR

Usually, I just read these threads and P*ss myself at all the comments people put up, great for a laugh.

Nova, when are you next doing a quarter mile or track day? I have yet to see a Nova run under 13 secs on the quarter, so I'd like to see yours go. 12.3 is pretty spectacular for a FWD car IMO, and would make yours one of the fastest road legal (I assume?) FWD cars in the country.

Subaru spent millions developing the Imprezza as a car to win the WRC. Vauxhall spent millions developing the Nova as a cheap and cheerful, relaible everyday car. Ford spent millions developing the Sierra Cossie for circuit racing (Touring cars), then the Escort for Rallying.

What this means in simple terms, is that if you buy a Scooby, it comes with suspension designed from the outset to win rallies. Okay, it's 'detuned' for the road, but the geometry etc is all there, so the basics are there. The engines were designed around the rules, so roughly 300BHP and loads of torque are relatively easy and not expensive. The car goes, stops and handles, maybe not the quickest car on the road, but a bloody good all rounder.

No matter how much money and parts you throw at a Nova, unless you start with a blank piece of paper, you'll never match the Scooby as an all rounder. You can beat it in a straight line, that's easy, just keep adding more power. The Vauxhall 2 litre engine is widely acknowledged as a good engine, power is no problem. But put the engine in a Nova, and you've screwed the weight distribution, and the car under steers, there's over 60% of the weight on the front wheels. I've driven 2 litre Novas, and they understeer. Fitting coilovers will not make enough difference to keep up with a Scooby on the corners, as the fundamental design of the suspension was for ride comfort, the only way to solve this is to resolve the weight distribution issues and redesign the suspension. The fastest Nova round a circuit I've ever seen had a 1.4 lump in it, much lighter than the 2 litre so it went round corners. It also had had a forune spent tuning suspension. There is no way that a £300 or £500 suspension kit is going to make a car designed as a shopping trolley out handle a car designed to handle in the first place. Even bolting a Calibra 4wd drive train and suspension into a Nova will not make it handle, as the Calibra isn't a good handling car either.

A well driven 2wd cossie with decent power may well be quicker than a lot of scoobs round a high speed track like say donnington. With equal power and equal drivers, the cossie has less transmission loss so should be faster. On a twistier track like say Anglesey, the Scooby may have the upper hand, again in equal circumstances. If the track was very uneven, the Scooby would almost certainly have an advantage. The difference on all these wouldn't be huge though. As had been said thousands of times on here, most races are won or lost by the driver, not the car. 4wd does not give you more grip, it gives you more traction, there is a difference, and at high speeds it's rarely an issue. Cornering speeds are govened by how much grip you generate, which comes down to suspension design, weight distribution and tyre width.

At the end of the day, every car is a compromise, and we all buy whatever suits us. It would be great to have race car power and handling, but still have a/c and get 50mpg every day. It won't happen. If you like straight line speed, fair play and good luck. If handling is your thing, great. The scoob out the box has a good compromise between the 2, with the bias slightly on handling. And they don't cost £10K as someone said earlier, read the thread about one being bought for £3700. The cossie has a decent balance, with the emphasis more on power (we all know the story about Ford wanted only 180BHP, and cosworth couldn't detune the engine far enough...) Scoobs seem to have the upper hand on reliablility IMO, my old man is on his 2nd now, and has had no problems in 4 years after spending £££s on the 2 cosworths he had before. A 300BHP Nova must be pretty damn scary to drive, and won't match the reliability of either, but if that's your thing, good luck. I got my mini close to 200BHP, and it used to scare people sh*tless at Santa Pod as it nearly torque steered into the other lane :O Best thing I ever did, looking back, was sell it...

Now, back to the 'my cars better than yours' routine...

RichardPON

On the 1st September, I raced a Nova with a Calibra Turbo lump in at Santa Pod. I ran a 13.7, and he ran a 14.2, and I thought that was bloody quick for a Nova.

We started chatting, as I was naturally inquisitive about this poxy shed that had only been .5 of a second behind my apparently all conquering cossie.... I asked him about the car, and he said it was a pig off the line. He mentioned the words torque steer a lot, and the word understeer cropped up when I mentioned track days.....

I found him genuine to chat to, because as much as I dislike the people who drive Novas/Saxos and the like (massive sweeping generalisation, I know), he was openly admitting his car's faults. I had a lot of time for him, since he wasn't a "my car keeps up with such and such round the M25" type - he ran 1/4s, track sessions etc, and was actively aware that he got blitzed by most proper cars round circuit, but enjoyed the fact that it surpried a few people on the road, and put a smile on HIS face. At the end of the day, it's whatever floats your boat.

It's absolutely NOTHING to do with how much money you have or how much power is under the bonnet. If you think you can outhandle a scoob because you've got some coilovers on, then you're sorely mistaken.

I was witness, and have on video, a Porsche 911, and a track prepped cossie being destroyed at the Nurburgring by a scooby. It wasn't a 22B, P1, or even a Type R..... it was a scooby sport! Mr felstead knows a thing or two about driving and found the car to be well set up - that's why Subaru spent x amount of millions designing it, and not whacking a set of coilovers on in the garage!

I'm not taking the pi55 in the slightest Mr Nova man, because I'm sure your car is obscenely fast, but there is every CHANCE you couldn't drive a slippery stick up a dog's ****!

Put a racing driver in your car and any scoob, and I know the scoob would lap far quicker, regardless of how much power the Nova has, because the scoob HANDLES!!!!!!!!!!

LG John

The other thing your forgeting NOS is that you've changed the engine in your car. The front end of the scooby swallows a 2.0 turbo no problems. Now I'm sure given that its a flat four that it would be a bugger to put something else in their but where there is money/time there is a way. If someone wanted to (can't imagine why!!) they could shoe-horn something else into the scoobs bay and then you have something with monster power and striaghtline ability. Of course chances are this would raise the centre of gravity (likely not to be a flat-4 design) which will alter the handling which is probably why nobody does it.

Nova's are dirt cheap to start with so if your tuning goes wrong and you wreck it, it isn't the end of the world. It takes some big ***** to start messing around with £10k worth of car which is why I said to wait a few years

Mini guy, again I appologise I'm more than happy for new people to come on SN (it's not like I have any control over it) as long as they make constructive comments. Co55ie came on about a month ago and has now put up about 200 posts of total bollocks creating nothing but fighting (in fairness he's been better behaved of late ), next thing we knew it was newbie after newbie all with RS, NOS or Nova in their name causing nothing but grief. It just seemed like you were launching into the same sort of crap posts as them.

I loved my VTS and defend it religiously on both this site and SSC when people have a go at it, but as soon as I picked up my scooby and drove it I could feel the difference. Overall it is a far superior car and whilst I know the saxo would keep up on fast, smooth, sweeping bends the subaru would eat it in every other circumstances. That's why I like the Impreza because it isn't really compromised, it can do everything well all the time. If I had a £1 for everytime I thought to myself when driving the VTS 'can't gun it just now or she'll bite me in the a5s' I'd be driving a Ferrari by now!! When it rained I was totally wasting my time with it but when the rain comes in the scooby thats when the fun starts

DreXeL

323gtr: You've just summed it all up perfectly. No one can argue with what that. Can we close this thread now?

[Edited by DreXeL - 9/22/2002 11:57:45 AM]

RichardPON

323,

Some very good points, but suspension designed to win rallies? ermm, I think you're pushing your luck there mate...

I think you'll find Group A/WRC cars run coilovers with remote resevoirs, completely different offset wheels, adjustable camber and toe availablity. Also, the early Scoob WRC cars ran a completely revised suspension geometry setup..... so as much as the scoob is a good handling car, and can be made better.... it's absolutley miles apart from a rally car spec...

C

Saxo Boy,

Beleive me the are people out there who cannot get enough power out of the flat four 2.0 engine so have moved the goalposts.

Unlike Zetec Cabrio man and NOShed man they choose not to brag about thier cars on other BBS's (or even here).

On scales these cars have probably as much money spent on them as the above have spent.

I'm just waiting to see when one does run what sort of reaction a low 10's/ high 9's 1/4 mile will produce.....



Chris

Gaz Jones

O.k so to finish this once and for all,

NOVAS ARE ****, GO AWAY AND GET A PROPER CAR.

Lets have a public flogging and burn his Nova.

p.s my mum used to drive a Nova.

gaz