cossies and scoobies
12 September 2002, 08:28 PM
#242
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Not if all the mods have been caried out at respected tuners etc and done sensibly.
Most of the ****e that is available is down to owners who haven't got a clue and bolt more and more go faster parts on and wonder why there engine goes bang.
Most of the ****e that is available is down to owners who haven't got a clue and bolt more and more go faster parts on and wonder why there engine goes bang.
12 September 2002, 08:52 PM
#243
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Unless the modification is an approved dealer accessory then it will add absolutely nothing to the value of your car, period.
What you put into your car tuning it you will never get back when you sell it, and if you have an accident in your car and you say to your insurance co "but that cost me 10k" their polite words will be this (no matter what you have the car insured for!) "Market value" ie the equivelant cost of a replacement.
Look in the parkers guide, you may be shocked at how much your car isnt worth.
Tony
What you put into your car tuning it you will never get back when you sell it, and if you have an accident in your car and you say to your insurance co "but that cost me 10k" their polite words will be this (no matter what you have the car insured for!) "Market value" ie the equivelant cost of a replacement.
Look in the parkers guide, you may be shocked at how much your car isnt worth.
Tony
12 September 2002, 09:05 PM
#244
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Here is an example 
400bhp cosworth 1988 e reg 4 door rwd.
you value car at say... ohhhh 10k
Insurance would give you the following
A1 good fair
£4770 £3510 £1105
Unless you can prove that your car was A1 condition the insurance co would give you the good valuation for it.
Tony
400bhp cosworth 1988 e reg 4 door rwd.
you value car at say... ohhhh 10k
Insurance would give you the following
A1 good fair
£4770 £3510 £1105
Unless you can prove that your car was A1 condition the insurance co would give you the good valuation for it.
Tony
12 September 2002, 10:57 PM
#246
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Come on guy's
most cossie's if they are mint do hold there money , a friend of mine last year bought an Rs500 with only 4,300 miles from new genuine , he paid 21k for it, if i was selling my 3dr i want no less that 9/10k for it, as the car has proper stuff on it, like Z.F platted rear diff / bilstein tarmac magneisum coilovers front/ rose jointed gravel magnesium bilsteins,and loadsmore stuff
have a look
http://mysite.freeserve.com/my_cosworth
most cossie's if they are mint do hold there money , a friend of mine last year bought an Rs500 with only 4,300 miles from new genuine , he paid 21k for it, if i was selling my 3dr i want no less that 9/10k for it, as the car has proper stuff on it, like Z.F platted rear diff / bilstein tarmac magneisum coilovers front/ rose jointed gravel magnesium bilsteins,and loadsmore stuff
have a look
http://mysite.freeserve.com/my_cosworth
12 September 2002, 11:35 PM
#248
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residuals what do you mean 500s cost more now than when they new.
Normal 3 door sold for £16k when new still pay 10k plus for a nice one. Again not that many of these was made only around 5000.
Face it your scoob limited editions become worthless pieces of junk the moment you get them of the forecourt. Look at the P1 for example. LOL if you bought one of these new you must be sore. Subaru are killing the market with there mass produced junk. You don't see millions of EVO's do you. But everywhere you go there is some bell end in a scooby the most common car on the road wanting to race you in his hairdryer which isn't even worth the petrol as they are so bloody slow in whatever form they come in.
Normal 3 door sold for £16k when new still pay 10k plus for a nice one. Again not that many of these was made only around 5000.
Face it your scoob limited editions become worthless pieces of junk the moment you get them of the forecourt. Look at the P1 for example. LOL if you bought one of these new you must be sore. Subaru are killing the market with there mass produced junk. You don't see millions of EVO's do you. But everywhere you go there is some bell end in a scooby the most common car on the road wanting to race you in his hairdryer which isn't even worth the petrol as they are so bloody slow in whatever form they come in.
12 September 2002, 11:44 PM
#249
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Co55ie I don't own a Scooby and don't particularly like them!
RS500 aside (which hold their £s cos of rarity) normal unabused, non-modded Sierra Cos ARE the ones that are most sort after and worth more.
Every ad you see in Auto Trader, Fast Ford, etc for Sierra Cos with 'claimed' big BHPs are fairly cheap.
Example:
89 G reg 2wd claimed 380bhp £6000
86 D reg 2wd totally standard and concourse winner £14,500.
RS500 aside (which hold their £s cos of rarity) normal unabused, non-modded Sierra Cos ARE the ones that are most sort after and worth more.
Every ad you see in Auto Trader, Fast Ford, etc for Sierra Cos with 'claimed' big BHPs are fairly cheap.
Example:
89 G reg 2wd claimed 380bhp £6000
86 D reg 2wd totally standard and concourse winner £14,500.
13 September 2002, 01:01 AM
#250
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exactly my point a mint car in original condition is still worth big sums of cash
the 89 car you refer would be a saff
the d reg a 3 door as you will now see the prices I quoted were pretty accurate no over the top.
[Edited by co55ie - 9/13/2002 1:03:43 AM]
the 89 car you refer would be a saff
the d reg a 3 door as you will now see the prices I quoted were pretty accurate no over the top.
[Edited by co55ie - 9/13/2002 1:03:43 AM]
13 September 2002, 07:42 AM
#251
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Co55IE I agree with you that there are very few cars that can give the same BHP per pound.
CC I was probably a little ignorant...I always thought that the sierra and sapphire cosworths were quite common as I see so many about?I agree that there are few escort cosworths and even fewer RS500's and virtually no RS200's about!!!
Onto a different theme slightly,what do you ford fanatics think of the eagerly awaited focus cosworth that is meant to be coming off the production line in 2/3 years?
Toad.
CC I was probably a little ignorant...I always thought that the sierra and sapphire cosworths were quite common as I see so many about?I agree that there are few escort cosworths and even fewer RS500's and virtually no RS200's about!!!
Onto a different theme slightly,what do you ford fanatics think of the eagerly awaited focus cosworth that is meant to be coming off the production line in 2/3 years?
Toad.
13 September 2002, 09:26 AM
#252
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Co55ie,
your just an ar5ehole
If you think that your car will be worth 9-10k then think again when you can get excellent examples of a 3door cossie for under 6k with low miles
(there is a white one for sale in autotrader, 5795)
As ive said, your car is worth market value, if the market value is 5k then thats what you get
I agree with the others that the RS500's are worth more as these were a speciallist car, i dont agree with co55ie that jap cars are mass production cr@p (inciting that they are cr@p that is) as the cosworths were also mass production thus meaning they are cr@p too?
You shoot yourself in the foot too many times co55ie, an agreed value with your insurance company is what you agree to insure it for, now if you say its worth 10k that still doesnt mean your going to get 10k back when it gets nicked or you crash it, so id pull your own head out of your backside and see the real world for once
And one last point to make everyone laugh at you
You have been boasting how wonderful your cossie is, best engine in the world etc, so why is it that you say you bought a mechanical sh1tter?
No doubt the way you have been going on these engines are perfect, nothing ever goes wrong with them
it has full service history no doubt? never had a misfire in its entire life?
You probably purchased it for 2k from some guy who sat there and laughed at you when you were gone, no doubt you also had the car HPI'd? hmmmmm doubt it
so your the mug who had to throw money at this car, not quite wonderful now are they?
If i were you id get your car HPI'd to see how many "non owners" its had (probably more than the ammout of owners)
Tony
your just an ar5ehole
If you think that your car will be worth 9-10k then think again when you can get excellent examples of a 3door cossie for under 6k with low miles
(there is a white one for sale in autotrader, 5795)
As ive said, your car is worth market value, if the market value is 5k then thats what you get
I agree with the others that the RS500's are worth more as these were a speciallist car, i dont agree with co55ie that jap cars are mass production cr@p (inciting that they are cr@p that is) as the cosworths were also mass production thus meaning they are cr@p too?
You shoot yourself in the foot too many times co55ie, an agreed value with your insurance company is what you agree to insure it for, now if you say its worth 10k that still doesnt mean your going to get 10k back when it gets nicked or you crash it, so id pull your own head out of your backside and see the real world for once
And one last point to make everyone laugh at you
You have been boasting how wonderful your cossie is, best engine in the world etc, so why is it that you say you bought a mechanical sh1tter?
No doubt the way you have been going on these engines are perfect, nothing ever goes wrong with them
it has full service history no doubt? never had a misfire in its entire life?You probably purchased it for 2k from some guy who sat there and laughed at you when you were gone, no doubt you also had the car HPI'd? hmmmmm doubt it
so your the mug who had to throw money at this car, not quite wonderful now are they?If i were you id get your car HPI'd to see how many "non owners" its had (probably more than the ammout of owners
)Tony
13 September 2002, 10:08 AM
#253
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Mine was bought for very little money, as I knew I'd be respraying, and stripping it down to the shell and rebuilding it....
Sure I paid 2k for mine, but it's now worth far more than that to me... although I realise that means very little in the grand scheme of things...
Cossie - forget agreed value etc etc... You must have heard about the demise of Mike Rainbird's 500bhp saff.... If you ever see him, ask him what the RSOC affiliated Insurance company is trying to give him back for his total loss.
If you don't know his car, the spec was longer than your arm, with every single mod available on that car... rose jointed suspension, brakes, Diff, box, engine etc etc etc
Like I say, you'd be surprised about the actual value of your car.....
Sure I paid 2k for mine, but it's now worth far more than that to me... although I realise that means very little in the grand scheme of things...
Cossie - forget agreed value etc etc... You must have heard about the demise of Mike Rainbird's 500bhp saff.... If you ever see him, ask him what the RSOC affiliated Insurance company is trying to give him back for his total loss.
If you don't know his car, the spec was longer than your arm, with every single mod available on that car... rose jointed suspension, brakes, Diff, box, engine etc etc etc
Like I say, you'd be surprised about the actual value of your car.....
13 September 2002, 10:20 AM
#254
13 September 2002, 10:42 AM
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Mike's escort is mental enough at the moment!
It runs 430bhp, swedish gear kit with straight cut 1st, 2nd, 3rd, big brakes, suspension etc etc, Stack dash blah blah blah.....
..... and he reckons he's bored! Look out 500 brake!
It runs 430bhp, swedish gear kit with straight cut 1st, 2nd, 3rd, big brakes, suspension etc etc, Stack dash blah blah blah.....
..... and he reckons he's bored! Look out 500 brake!
13 September 2002, 11:53 AM
#256
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Tony your comments are ridiculous. The block alone is worth £600 secondhand.
Strange then that If you have an agreed value on a vehicle which the insurance company has agreed to and you have it in writing to this effect that they could offer you anything but the agreed value which they would be legally obliged to do.
If they did not offer the agreed sum then they would be in breach of their own contract with yourself and would have obtained you yearly premium by deception which are both illegal
[Edited by co55ie - 9/13/2002 11:59:24 AM]
Strange then that If you have an agreed value on a vehicle which the insurance company has agreed to and you have it in writing to this effect that they could offer you anything but the agreed value which they would be legally obliged to do.
If they did not offer the agreed sum then they would be in breach of their own contract with yourself and would have obtained you yearly premium by deception which are both illegal
[Edited by co55ie - 9/13/2002 11:59:24 AM]
13 September 2002, 11:58 AM
#257
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forget agreed value etc etc
Rich, I think you will agree that Mike's situ with Dominion is slightly more complex than the normal 'Agreed Valuations'
I have know of 2 instances where Dominion have paid out the FULL Agreed Valuation price.
Have you ever seen anyone post on RSOC that Dominion have reneged on paying out on an Agreed Valuation done by a Registrar?
13 September 2002, 02:33 PM
#258
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Co55ie you still dont get it do you?
When you get your insurance documentation with the value of your car, it doesnt mean that they have to pay you that value, what it does mean is that they will pay you for a replacement but not necessarily at the same price (market value!)
Now, if you havnt got that into your small brainless head yet then you really are in la la cookoo land
Anyone can value a car at any price, what you get at the end isnt normally what you want to get (see Mike Rainbird's car for instance )
At the end of the day, your the one whos kidding him/herself thinking that the insurance co will pay out as much as you want, sorry its the other way round.
Tony
When you get your insurance documentation with the value of your car, it doesnt mean that they have to pay you that value, what it does mean is that they will pay you for a replacement but not necessarily at the same price (market value!)
Now, if you havnt got that into your small brainless head yet
then you really are in la la cookoo land Anyone can value a car at any price, what you get at the end isnt normally what you want to get
(see Mike Rainbird's car for instance )At the end of the day, your the one whos kidding him/herself thinking that the insurance co will pay out as much as you want, sorry its the other way round.
Tony
13 September 2002, 03:13 PM
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Tony, what you're talking about isn't "Agreed Value". On an ordinary insurance policy, when they ask you the value of your vehicle, you could put £1,000,000 in the value but it won't make a jot of difference, you'll still only get bottom book for your pride and joy.
Agreed value insurance is just that, you and the insurance company agree a price (usually following an inspection) and if you suffer a total loss, that's what they pay you.
Edited to say: I haven't read this thread, I'm just randomly butting in
[Edited by NotoriousREV - 9/13/2002 3:17:18 PM]
Agreed value insurance is just that, you and the insurance company agree a price (usually following an inspection) and if you suffer a total loss, that's what they pay you.
Edited to say: I haven't read this thread, I'm just randomly butting in
[Edited by NotoriousREV - 9/13/2002 3:17:18 PM]
13 September 2002, 03:32 PM
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NotoriousREV
At last - someone understands
The RSOC offer this service to RSOC members through Dominion Plan. There are Registrars for each type of RS and they frequently attend RS shows and do free valuations. Prices are based on the car as standard, then any mods, on proof of receipts are added on - 100% value is allowed if they are less than a year old and this percentage reduced accordingly for subsequent years. An inspection by a Registrar is done annually.
At last - someone understands
The RSOC offer this service to RSOC members through Dominion Plan. There are Registrars for each type of RS and they frequently attend RS shows and do free valuations. Prices are based on the car as standard, then any mods, on proof of receipts are added on - 100% value is allowed if they are less than a year old and this percentage reduced accordingly for subsequent years. An inspection by a Registrar is done annually.
13 September 2002, 04:09 PM
#261
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Exactly right I posted all my reciepts of to insurance company and we agreed a value in case of total loss payout.
Tony you really do not know anything about anything.
WHY IS IT CALLED AN AGREED VALUE POLICY IF THE VALUE OF THE VEHICLE IS NOT AGREED.
Have you ever thought about going a day time quiz show Tony !!!!!!
Tony you really do not know anything about anything.
WHY IS IT CALLED AN AGREED VALUE POLICY IF THE VALUE OF THE VEHICLE IS NOT AGREED.
Have you ever thought about going a day time quiz show Tony !!!!!!
13 September 2002, 04:20 PM
#262
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Co55ie,
you drive an out of date shed,
need i say more?
And yet you still havnt told me, does your car have fsh? is it HPI'd? how many millions of miles does it have on it?
No doubt you are still wondering about its reliabilty too, you know as you said cossie engines were the best (and you bought a sh1tter? )
Oh just one last question, did the insurance co send an assessor round to your house or did they just take the paperwork from you?
(and please tell me who they are so i can get ripped off too)
Tony
you drive an out of date shed,
need i say more?
And yet you still havnt told me, does your car have fsh? is it HPI'd? how many millions of miles does it have on it?
No doubt you are still wondering about its reliabilty too, you know as you said cossie engines were the best (and you bought a sh1tter?
)Oh just one last question, did the insurance co send an assessor round to your house or did they just take the paperwork from you?
(and please tell me who they are so i can get ripped off too
)Tony
13 September 2002, 09:37 PM
#263
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Cossie
I have had this car 9 yrs and spent a small fortune on it over the yrs, because i can't afford to do everything to the car in one go. i just do it, a bit at a time any thing goes wrong with it normally i repair it striat away and never leave it to long, but this time, i have lost a bit of intrest to be honest,and the mrs is having another baby......lol.....so really got no choice.....lol.... or i will get a frying pan in my head..lol and the usual sh!te you and that fooking car.....lol
I have had this car 9 yrs and spent a small fortune on it over the yrs, because i can't afford to do everything to the car in one go. i just do it, a bit at a time any thing goes wrong with it normally i repair it striat away and never leave it to long, but this time, i have lost a bit of intrest to be honest,and the mrs is having another baby......lol.....so really got no choice.....lol.... or i will get a frying pan in my head..lol
and the usual sh!te you and that fooking car.....lol
13 September 2002, 11:56 PM
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Redkop,
I wont get into a row about this with ya, cos Spurs will finish above ya in the league this season and that's good enough for me ....
Basically, although the RSOC approved insurers recognise the registrar's opinion on a car's valuation, the registrar is only accepted as a valued expert by the club. The only proper way to value the car would be through an independant expert, since the RSOC registrar is ultimately not qualified, and is only a self confessed expert that the club chooses to recognise.
Spurs for the Champions League !!!!!!!!!!!!
I wont get into a row about this with ya, cos Spurs will finish above ya in the league this season
and that's good enough for me ....Basically, although the RSOC approved insurers recognise the registrar's opinion on a car's valuation, the registrar is only accepted as a valued expert by the club. The only proper way to value the car would be through an independant expert, since the RSOC registrar is ultimately not qualified, and is only a self confessed expert that the club chooses to recognise.
Spurs for the Champions League !!!!!!!!!!!!
15 September 2002, 09:03 AM
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LMAO @ this post......
OK some facts.
2wd saff 2-4 k - I know where there is a standard mint saff for sale 43k, never modded FSH etc etc wants 4.5k recon will take 4k
escort Cos - large turbo mint is 10-12k
Escort Cos - Small Turbo Mint 13-15k (not sure why anyone would want one of these, but in fairness a stage one small turbo is as quick as an STI)
RS500 8-12k MINT - A good friend of mine just sold his escort for a little under 10k and got a geniune 500 for 8.5k mint and totally standard.
K Plate UK spec scoob, I have been offered these for 4.5k - 5.5k, so the scooob aren't holding much value as you would never get an escort for that price.
My mate got 6K payout from the insurance on a 4x4 saff with an agreed value of 7k, so again the RSOC insurance plan is a bit of a farce.
My escort has receipts in excess of 20k, they claimed to be valued at 6k, which wouldn't even get you the engine and box. Again agreed value from insurance is a farce.
CraigH's STI is for sale (ish) at about 13k for an STI V, so the top range imports seem to be holding better value than most.
As for power vs car.....ITS ABOUT THE DRIVER simple.
I have hammered EVO's and SCOOB's down the lanes, on dual carrage ways in a car with a basic rally set up from 25 years ago. I know i run more power but my brakes aint up to much (thank god for the new AP's )
Bondy in a 2wd saff hammered an STI V in the rain, his saff was 330bhp, but he is a very good driver. CraigH's lap times round dono are faster than my escort and i have more bhp, but we are pretty equal on track, he has a 2sec laptime over me the *******
As for the realiability of a cossie, people do things but not everything, therefore cheaper becomes more expensive, as both me and marco are aware of....
Scoob reliability is as simular, the internals on a scoob are much weaker than a cossie, simple....no argument there, just facts. BUT you can make the internals of a scoob very strong, closed deck blocks, arrows rods, cossie pistons etc with that you can get over 400bhp, So there is no difference, if you want 400bhp in a cossie, you need a new 200 block, new pistons, the rods and crank are ok standard.......Prices therefore are very simular, as is the reliablily.
The Australians have some rapid scoobs, its only time before some of that comes over here.....
OK some facts.
2wd saff 2-4 k - I know where there is a standard mint saff for sale 43k, never modded FSH etc etc wants 4.5k recon will take 4k
escort Cos - large turbo mint is 10-12k
Escort Cos - Small Turbo Mint 13-15k (not sure why anyone would want one of these, but in fairness a stage one small turbo is as quick as an STI)
RS500 8-12k MINT - A good friend of mine just sold his escort for a little under 10k and got a geniune 500 for 8.5k mint and totally standard.
K Plate UK spec scoob, I have been offered these for 4.5k - 5.5k, so the scooob aren't holding much value as you would never get an escort for that price.
My mate got 6K payout from the insurance on a 4x4 saff with an agreed value of 7k, so again the RSOC insurance plan is a bit of a farce.
My escort has receipts in excess of 20k, they claimed to be valued at 6k, which wouldn't even get you the engine and box. Again agreed value from insurance is a farce.
CraigH's STI is for sale (ish) at about 13k for an STI V, so the top range imports seem to be holding better value than most.
As for power vs car.....ITS ABOUT THE DRIVER simple.
I have hammered EVO's and SCOOB's down the lanes, on dual carrage ways in a car with a basic rally set up from 25 years ago. I know i run more power but my brakes aint up to much (thank god for the new AP's
)Bondy in a 2wd saff hammered an STI V in the rain, his saff was 330bhp, but he is a very good driver. CraigH's lap times round dono are faster than my escort and i have more bhp, but we are pretty equal on track, he has a 2sec laptime over me the *******
As for the realiability of a cossie, people do things but not everything, therefore cheaper becomes more expensive, as both me and marco are aware of....
Scoob reliability is as simular, the internals on a scoob are much weaker than a cossie, simple....no argument there, just facts. BUT you can make the internals of a scoob very strong, closed deck blocks, arrows rods, cossie pistons etc with that you can get over 400bhp, So there is no difference, if you want 400bhp in a cossie, you need a new 200 block, new pistons, the rods and crank are ok standard.......Prices therefore are very simular, as is the reliablily.
The Australians have some rapid scoobs, its only time before some of that comes over here.....
15 September 2002, 11:19 AM
#270
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{quote]My mate got 6K payout from the insurance on a 4x4 saff with an agreed value of 7k, so again the RSOC insurance plan is a bit of a farce.[/quote]
What was the excess on his policy? What were the exact figures he had agreed and paid out? I'd be willing to bet that the amount paid out was agreed value less his excess, but of course that wouldn't make such a good story down the pub
What was the excess on his policy? What were the exact figures he had agreed and paid out? I'd be willing to bet that the amount paid out was agreed value less his excess, but of course that wouldn't make such a good story down the pub
