RB5320

Interesting but totally irrelevant comparison (no offence intended to anyone!!!) as no 2 people will have exactly the same criteria on what makes for a good car. I own an RB5 WR Sport and love it to bits. Would I like an Escort Cosworth - YES PLEASE. But, I chose not to buy one as they are now quite old. The RB5 is my only car and is occasionally used for work purposes. The thought of buying a 10 year old car which without a doubt has been driven "enthusiastically" just doesnt make sense to me personally. But I still think they are one of the best looking cars around.
A few years ago I was lucky enough to win a ride round Donningtom with Gwyndaf Evans in a works Escort Cosworth. Awesome experience. Who thinks they could beat him round the track in their modified scooby? On the other hand, which brave cosworth owner is going to claim they could beat a works Impreza? A ridiculous question obviously but lets get things into perspective. Both cars are superb and the beauty of modifying is that you can end up with the car of your dreams. Just dont take it personally if some people prefer their own car!!!

Redkop

Esc Cossies were manufactured up until 1996 - so a lot are still only 6 years old

RB5320

Fair enough but doesnt change my views on the best car for me.

2wdcossie

yes but lynne they were the gimpy **** small turbo models werent they and lets face it who would want one of them LOL hehe

matt

Mad4it

Wouldn't Life be boring if we all had the same opinion.

We have a Type R, and a 2wd Sapphire Cossie

The Scooby is a lot quicker, but is a lot higher spec. We are currently modding the Cossie upto 400bhp with Grey's, and other bits, and will hope to have some fun.

Will be interesting to compare the both when finished.

Redkop

Quote:

yes but lynne they were the gimpy **** small turbo models werent they and lets face it who would want one of them LOL hehe

matt

But still preferable to a buying a Scoob eh Matt?

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

REDKNOB-why do you bother coming on scoobynet when you have such a low opinion of our cars???

CraigH

It's not a low opinion of ours, it's an over inflated opinion on hers

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

oh,i see

2wdcossie

ROFL you 2 will get into trouble with comments like that

Cossie JO

Rich a,

Not gonna bitch ya my friend it's just a bit of light hearted banter!

I drive a 360bhp escort cossie not bad for a woman hey.

Thanx Jo.

Cosworth427

martin_reyland

I don't know what you find funny about a Camaro. They have been formidable sports cars for the past 30 years in American motorsport. They are versatile in various fields of racing, whether it be endurance, drag, or circuit racing. The Camaro has been there. You want examples of FAST Camaros???

A Chevrolet 5.7L Camaro SS has 350 HP STOCK. $25'000 = £15'200

Straight-line acceleration consists of:

0-60: 4.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 12.9 seconds

These figures a totally STOCK, and these cars can handle every bit as well as an Escort Cosworth. And totally destroy a stock Escort Cosworth by nearly 2 seconds in the quarter and a whole second to sixty.

0-100, 0-124, you would expect even a larger gap.

Since your "Cossie" is tuned to a formidable 330 HP PEAK. I will include an aftermarket Camaro SS for fair comparison. Since your car is tuned, the Camaro in comparison should be tuned too.

Samracing Camaro SS 1999:

This car had NO Turbocharging. NO supercharging, and NO nitrious oxide.

1/4 mile: 9.86 seconds.
Trap speed @ 1/4 mile: 138.4 MPH

http://www.samracing.com/99camaro.htm


UK Street Racers website has a 1967 Camaro, and yes it is live axle too.

1/4 mile: 10.27 seconds @ 135 MPH

The fastest Escort Cosworth from that site was a 513 HP project.
It did...

1/4 mile: 11.4 seconds @ 128 MPH

It's funny how a "live axle" Camaro OLD and NEW can stomp all over many of the Cossie's they have come across.

What I would like to see is a circuit race between a Camaro and an Escort Cosworth, maybe it would stop people from making such ignorant/stereotyping/racist/ views on import cars.

Redkop

jonny gobsh*te - show me pal where I have mentioned anywhere that I have a poor opinion of Scoobs. Your replies are always the same...case of big gob being engaged before using brain, that is if you have one in the huge vaccuous space between your ears. You will find - if you have the intelligence to understand [doubtful tho] what I am gonna say....I have posted more than once in the last few days that I happen to like Scoobs, altho my preference is a Cossie. Comprendez pal?

Craig...again shurrrrrup and stop stirring

AllanB

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. god this is dull. This thread sounds liike a broken record.

We all know the Ford is more tunable but its way less desireable unless your a real enthusiast. Prefer the looks of the Scoob myself but the Escort Cosworth still makes me grin but at the end of the day its just a bloody car !

I am being honest here and not a snob or anything but I'd be ashamed to own a Ford. Too many memories off rusting Cortinas, dodgy MK II Escorts and other sub standard Ford stuff. Mates Focus is changing my minds a bit though.

Anyone want to talk about Daihartsu Charades.. 1 litre supercar eater. LOL !


AllanB

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

REDKNOB- must be that time of the month again is it

you really should lighten up you know

CraigH

Co55ie,

I could go and say what i did to all the RS's at your own National Day in 2001 again - but I won't

As to any of the cars being mentioned being desirable, define desirable?

RichardPON

Yes, but Craig, owning any performance car doesn't actually endear you with any driving skill... that's true of most of the RSOC!!!

CraigH

And, dare I say it, Scoobynet lol

Redkop

jonny gobalot - are you going through puberty - cos your replies are so infantile?

Redkop

Groan - another infantile reply

You are getting a bit tedious now

jonny gav

iTrader: (1)

Since when was it infantile to have a sense of humour???

Cosworth427

martin_reyland

You may have some experience and knowledge in 2 litre turbocharged engines, but you prove you know NOTHING about V8 American sports cars. Calling them heavy buses will hardly influence anyone with knowledge to listen to you. A Camaro SS 1999 is no more heavier than an Aston Martin DB7, a fully loaded Toyota Supra TT, or a Nissan 300ZX, yet I don't see many people state them off for being porky - not in here or any other car site.

You're not the only one who has the misconception about American cars. The definition of a live axle is a rear wheel driven car that is not independently sprung. But thanks to wider than average tires and up to date dampers and springs a Camaro SS will hold on the road just as well as 90% of stock Subaru Impreza's and MIT EVO's. And even more so with the help of strut bracing and further shock tuning.

An atmospheric engine bored and stroked to displace 7 litres is every bit as legal as a 2 litre with turbocharger. Both methods are used to acheive the same basic goal, and that is maximum power. But there is only so much power you can squeeze out of 2 litres regardless of what type of turbocharger you use. Higher the boost, the greater the heat towards gasket, valves and spark plugs. More heat requires beefier intercoolers and cooling systems, MORE equipment ADDS WEIGHT. On the other hand, a natural aspirated engine kicking out 500, 600, 700, or even 1500 HP from a V8 is simple, less parts and NO turbolag. V8 Camaros are PROVEN to last in races in endurance, circuit and drag racing.

Finally, Chevrolet does not enter rally sports simply because the majority of the domestic market does not watch WRC or any smaller rally event. The SAME reason why Jaguar and Aston Martin will not enter NASCAR.

ANY car manufacturer knows that it is pointless to spend money on motorsport entry if there isn't enough popularity in that particular sport. It is NOT because you think Camaro's can't handle. A car that "handles" very well in a rally doesn't mean it can handle well on road and tarmac, yet again so many people assume the driving and physical conditions between rally and road are the same.

CraigH

Cosworth427,

I'm sorry, but all those cars you mention ARE lardy.

Supras and 300zx's are known to be heavy.

As to you saying a Camaro could, if required cut it in rallying, that is absolute rubbish. Circuit racing maybe but not rallying.

As to circuit racing, it will never be as good overall as a lighter less powerful car - if it's heavy it simply won't handle as well as a lighter car - not sure what weight you could get one down to - 1200kg at a push maybe?

It is horses for course and I'd be surprised if there were many if at all any camaros that can be considered as good all round as martins Escort. Not only does it have good straghtline speed (acceleration, top speed), it also handles exceptionally well, is 4wd so grips exceptionally well and is relatively light.

Now I would LOVE to see a Camaro be as quick as his on a circuit like Bedford but I think it would be too tight round the majority for the Camaro to get close....

IMO of course.

Lee M

Well said Craig, completely agree with everything you said there matey. "No heavier than a Aston DB7" gotta say thats pretty funny!! You have to go out with Martin to appreciate just how fast this car is around a track....as Craig said its a great allrounder.
Craig you missed out the fact that it took the world Caravan towing record from a 8 litre V10 Viper

AllanB

Jesus I have a Scoob but even I know that Fiat / Lancia totally dominated rallying until they got bored winning.

All cars are good but just a few are great and Scoobs and Cossies all fall into the latter !


AllanB

Sprint Chief

Big muscle cars can be made to handle very well, although inevitably tight circuits will always suit the smaller/more nimble cars; at Lydden, the smaller car would be better, at Snetterton perhaps a balance, somewhere like Paul Ricard (do they still have that loopy straight there?) the big car with the big motor may be the one to have.

You get into the same kind of debate over four wheel drive/rear wheel drive, theoretically rear wheel drive gives you best track setup, but then there are conditions where AWD is better.

Ya gotta love the Chrysler hemi though, in terms of tunability makes the cosworth two litre lump look limp I think Keith Black V8s are basically a development of this motor, 6000 bhp anyone? (yep, that does have the right number of 0's)

RichardPON

Awaiting Martin's reply with interest, cos I'm sure Martin used to build V8s.......I may be mistaken..

martin_reyland

427, i dont think i need to reply as the last couple of posts just about sum up what i was going to reply(i will anyway!)..... db7 not a heavy bus? dont make me laugh it weighs nearly 1800kg, my car is 1230 so i think its fair to say by comparison that yes indeed it is a heavy bus! if you reckon the camaro would make a good rally car then perhaps you are the only one that knows this well kept secret as ive never seen one. anyhow, how come you call yourself cosworth 427, surely 'iwishihadacamaro' would be much better! lets agree to disagree cause you will never get me at accept that a camaro is anything other than a drag strip wonder..............

Cosworth427

martin_reyland

Now you, and a few others here, are proving you don't know what you are talking about. Its annoying to see people in here try and pass their OPINION as FACT. They are wrong, and that goes for you too.

You don't "accept" the facts about a car like the Camaro because you don't have the knowledge about cars to understand them. A live axle car, 1550 KG unibody can handle as well as any 1280 KG unibody road car on the majority of race tracks, of course when we are talking about uneven road surfaces, the fully independent sprung car should have the advantage on laterial stability. Even with that in mind, the use of wider tires, strut bracing, shock tuning can help reduce that disdadvantage very well. You want some proof?

A 550HP Trans AM Firebird (A Camaro with different shell) driven by a Canadian on a SOLO 1 circuit event holds the lap records in the year 1999, and the 2000. Beating the likes of the aftermarket tuned Toyota Supra TT. The Supra TT stock can hold 0.98 G's, and holds double wishbone suspension all round -which is something an Escort Cosworth does NOT have. Even with the inherent suspension advantage of the Supra, an F-Body (Camaro/Firebird) can compete very well stock or tuned.

Again, I will emphasise that YOU don't believe and wont accept the validity of a Camaro as a club race car simply because you don't understand cars enough. Period. You don't understand cars enough.

I can call myself whatever I want. I'm a fan of MANY cars, Japanese, American, German, Italian and British (especially the simple two-seater sports cars like Austin Healeys, and modern MG's and Lotus's ) I will defend specific cars where appropriate, and especially against ignorant and baseless attacks which is typical in this forum.

And as for CraigH and LeeM, you two are not too far behind.

T16GER

Cosworth427, I've read your replies with great interest, and I do happen to know the people you are having a go at and I do have to say that they do actually understand cars...probably a lot better than you give them credit for..

Can I ask you a question...how many cars have you built or modified, how many engines have you worked on etc, etc?? Just out of curiosity...So that we can judge if you have any knowledge of anything other than big yank tanks....or if you just get all of your info from a book...