RS Owners Club.
04 November 1999, 09:58 AM
#152
Mike,
youve got the wrong car mate.
This esprit is a pukka race car, space frame construction, F3000 suspension, F1 gearbox and 400BHP of Normally Aspirated 5litre V8.
It would kill a proper esprit V8.
We lap mallory at over 100MPH average, It has an F1 rear wing and F3000 tyres. 0-60 in 1.5 seconds 0-100 under 3, top speed geared for 160 round donnington.
Seen racing in the Ace Vehicle deliveries sports/saloon championship.Known as the wildcat esprit
youve got the wrong car mate.
This esprit is a pukka race car, space frame construction, F3000 suspension, F1 gearbox and 400BHP of Normally Aspirated 5litre V8.
It would kill a proper esprit V8.
We lap mallory at over 100MPH average, It has an F1 rear wing and F3000 tyres. 0-60 in 1.5 seconds 0-100 under 3, top speed geared for 160 round donnington.
Seen racing in the Ace Vehicle deliveries sports/saloon championship.Known as the wildcat esprit
04 November 1999, 10:53 AM
#153
Dear John,
Aaah, I thought you meant the pukka Lotus GT car. Your mate's car sounds even better though! Can you tell me which issue it was in, as I have a few of them and would love to read about the car (the "wildcat" name seems to ring a bell).
Dear All,
And if there are any of you who are reading my posting challenging Nightmare's car and thinking "Mike's talking bull", just a few facts for you:
In June 1998 a 530 bhp Diablo SV was taken to Bruntingthorpe and in the pissing down rain conditions managed 172mph in 1.6 miles (can normally use more distance, but due to the rain they had to set up the lights at this point to ensure the cars could stop in time!).
In May 1999 a 385 bhp Cosworth (my car) was taken to Bruntingthorpe and in similar conditions (as in pissing down with rain) managed an identical 172mph in 1.5 miles (a reduction in distance, as they weren't sure the cars there had the brakes to stop in time!). Incidentally, I had over 400 more revs to go (was 6580 at 172) before the rev limit (was 7000 then) and the car was STILL pulling. I now have an extra 50bhp at 6500 revs and the car is geared to do 188.23 @ 7200 (and I have seen 6700 revs so far). So put that in your pipe and smoke it all you doubting Thomas'!
Cossies rule ok!
Mike
Aaah, I thought you meant the pukka Lotus GT car. Your mate's car sounds even better though! Can you tell me which issue it was in, as I have a few of them and would love to read about the car (the "wildcat" name seems to ring a bell).
Dear All,
And if there are any of you who are reading my posting challenging Nightmare's car and thinking "Mike's talking bull", just a few facts for you:
In June 1998 a 530 bhp Diablo SV was taken to Bruntingthorpe and in the pissing down rain conditions managed 172mph in 1.6 miles (can normally use more distance, but due to the rain they had to set up the lights at this point to ensure the cars could stop in time!).
In May 1999 a 385 bhp Cosworth (my car) was taken to Bruntingthorpe and in similar conditions (as in pissing down with rain) managed an identical 172mph in 1.5 miles (a reduction in distance, as they weren't sure the cars there had the brakes to stop in time!). Incidentally, I had over 400 more revs to go (was 6580 at 172) before the rev limit (was 7000 then) and the car was STILL pulling. I now have an extra 50bhp at 6500 revs and the car is geared to do 188.23 @ 7200 (and I have seen 6700 revs so far). So put that in your pipe and smoke it all you doubting Thomas'!
Cossies rule ok!
Mike
04 November 1999, 01:26 PM
#155
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hahaha - this is fun - havent laughed so much in ages!
Mike - Ive run out at 214mph at Bruntingthorpe (and then ran out of ********* rather than revs
). The car is an SV, with a modified throughput exhaust system, and a Jota kit. It now develops (last dyno check on a warm day) 624bhp.
I would agree that in general, a diablo off the line isnt that impressive initially - but the mid range eats anything - and that includes an F1...
Ive never had mine anywhere like santapod, but raced it off against my own Mantis (with supercharger now *yay!* - friend driving) and hammered it. completely. And thats the Mantis which I raced off against said friends Cerbera - and beat that.
Its not really much like bog standard lambo - and its really damn loud too!!
The only thing Ive ever lost too was at Bruntingthorpe... I was pulling nearly 7000rpm in 4th, about 185mph, when this white astramax van pulled up behind and then overtook. typical
!!
Anyway - this is the subaru board! - not the lambo v Cossie board. Still own your butt though
p.s. Johnf - are there any piccys of the esprit? sounds damn cool!
[This message has been edited by Nightmare (edited 04-11-1999).]
Mike - Ive run out at 214mph at Bruntingthorpe (and then ran out of ********* rather than revs
). The car is an SV, with a modified throughput exhaust system, and a Jota kit. It now develops (last dyno check on a warm day) 624bhp.I would agree that in general, a diablo off the line isnt that impressive initially - but the mid range eats anything - and that includes an F1...
Ive never had mine anywhere like santapod, but raced it off against my own Mantis (with supercharger now *yay!* - friend driving) and hammered it. completely. And thats the Mantis which I raced off against said friends Cerbera - and beat that.
Its not really much like bog standard lambo - and its really damn loud too!!
The only thing Ive ever lost too was at Bruntingthorpe... I was pulling nearly 7000rpm in 4th, about 185mph, when this white astramax van pulled up behind and then overtook. typical
!!Anyway - this is the subaru board! - not the lambo v Cossie board. Still own your butt though
p.s. Johnf - are there any piccys of the esprit? sounds damn cool!
[This message has been edited by Nightmare (edited 04-11-1999).]
04 November 1999, 01:36 PM
#156
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Nightmare,
That would, of course, have been a diesel Astramax, which, as we all know, are the fastest motor vehicles in the universe
(Especially with "lighter" white paintwork and go faster copy of The Sun on the dashboard)
D.
That would, of course, have been a diesel Astramax, which, as we all know, are the fastest motor vehicles in the universe
(Especially with "lighter" white paintwork and go faster copy of The Sun on the dashboard)
D.
04 November 1999, 02:20 PM
#157
Dear Nightmare,
A MODIFIED Diablo? Bugger, didn't count on that, thought it would be standard, where I WOULD have caned you! (NOBODY modifies a Diablo - its just not cricket!
) I'm sulking now - you're a cheat!
I would be interested in the torque on the dyno and the weight of the car to get a "guestimate" of how much you own my **** by!
Next year will see some more mods which will bring me back into contention. All I need is an extra 65bhp to match your power to weight ratio (400bhp per ton for the standard weight of an SV given the fact that you have 624bhp). So with that, raising the rev limit to 8200 and with the aid of a couple of rocket boosters a following wind and the grace of God, I should match your speed! (Just before lift off!)....
Please tell me what I have to do to get a ride in your car, short of selling my body (the girlfriend's is a different matter though!) Joke (in case she ever reads this!).
LOL
Mike
PS Can I have your job?!
PPS I'll do you a swap.....?
PPPS Check out the June Edition of our newsletter for a write up on the day at Bruntingthorpe:
A MODIFIED Diablo? Bugger, didn't count on that, thought it would be standard, where I WOULD have caned you! (NOBODY modifies a Diablo - its just not cricket!
) I'm sulking now - you're a cheat! I would be interested in the torque on the dyno and the weight of the car to get a "guestimate" of how much you own my **** by!
Next year will see some more mods which will bring me back into contention. All I need is an extra 65bhp to match your power to weight ratio (400bhp per ton for the standard weight of an SV given the fact that you have 624bhp). So with that, raising the rev limit to 8200 and with the aid of a couple of rocket boosters a following wind and the grace of God, I should match your speed!
(Just before lift off!)....Please tell me what I have to do to get a ride in your car, short of selling my body (the girlfriend's is a different matter though!) Joke (in case she ever reads this!).
LOL
Mike
PS Can I have your job?!
PPS I'll do you a swap.....?
PPPS Check out the June Edition of our newsletter for a write up on the day at Bruntingthorpe:
04 November 1999, 02:32 PM
#158
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You're right - apparently they dont often - many a raised eyebrow!! (the Italians dont seem too phased though )
Mike - If I get to a meet you can have the keys with my blessing....unless you intend to do to my dif what you seem to do to yours!
I bought a BMW yesterday for 3o quid! and its got a years MOT. I thought that was quite a result really (though totally off the point)
p.s. your job sounds more interesting than mine by a long way!
)Mike - If I get to a meet you can have the keys with my blessing....unless you intend to do to my dif what you seem to do to yours!
I bought a BMW yesterday for 3o quid! and its got a years MOT. I thought that was quite a result really (though totally off the point)
p.s. your job sounds more interesting than mine by a long way!
04 November 1999, 02:54 PM
#159
Dear Diablo,
The Italians aren't phased by anything (providing you are patient!), they'll do anything....
Would never presume to drive the car, a passenger ride would be sufficient (providing you can stand someone giggling beside you like a mad person as the speed picks up to the double ton!).
The diff is fine on the road, just doesn't like all that torque dumped at once, and it is only then that it "spits the dummy", but it was only designed to handle 200bhp! A 9" diff would cure the problem, but Quaife want £6k for a new one and £3K second hand. Money I'd rather spend on the engine and then just have a solid diff built for drag racing (which I have now had done using one of the (many) scrap ones I have!).
I will have a secret weapon by March / April next year, so watch this space...
502bhp and 498 lb ft of torque is easliy available out of a Cossie with T4 and 8 injectors...
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me know next time you go to Bruntingthorpe, as I would give Stef's left ******** to tag along!
LOL
Mike
PS. Can we have a list of your cars please? And I would be interested in knowing why you choose each one...
i.e. Diablo - because of its f-off road presence...
Marcos - because it had 450 bhp as STANDARD
Impreza - because I needed a boring girls car for the misses to drive...
etc....
PPS Incidentally, the Mantis only did 148mph on the same day! Suffering from gearing too tall and wildly optimistic power claim!
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
The Italians aren't phased by anything (providing you are patient!), they'll do anything....
Would never presume to drive the car, a passenger ride would be sufficient (providing you can stand someone giggling beside you like a mad person as the speed picks up to the double ton!).
The diff is fine on the road, just doesn't like all that torque dumped at once, and it is only then that it "spits the dummy", but it was only designed to handle 200bhp! A 9" diff would cure the problem, but Quaife want £6k for a new one and £3K second hand. Money I'd rather spend on the engine and then just have a solid diff built for drag racing (which I have now had done using one of the (many) scrap ones I have!).
I will have a secret weapon by March / April next year, so watch this space...
502bhp and 498 lb ft of torque is easliy available out of a Cossie with T4 and 8 injectors...
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE let me know next time you go to Bruntingthorpe, as I would give Stef's left ******** to tag along!
LOL
Mike
PS. Can we have a list of your cars please? And I would be interested in knowing why you choose each one...
i.e. Diablo - because of its f-off road presence...
Marcos - because it had 450 bhp as STANDARD
Impreza - because I needed a boring girls car for the misses to drive...
etc....
PPS Incidentally, the Mantis only did 148mph on the same day! Suffering from gearing too tall and wildly optimistic power claim!
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
04 November 1999, 02:54 PM
#160
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Interesting the way this one is going, a modified diablo!!!
Anyway my point. I remember reading a report by an aerodynamcist (if thats how you spell it) who stated that above approx 100mph, weight plays less importance than aerodynamics, and this increases as speeds increase.
robski
Anyway my point. I remember reading a report by an aerodynamcist (if thats how you spell it) who stated that above approx 100mph, weight plays less importance than aerodynamics, and this increases as speeds increase.
robski
04 November 1999, 03:16 PM
#161
Dear Robski,
You are 100% spot on. A Sapphire hits an areodynamic brick wall at 180mph, and so far the fastest recorded is 179.8 (this was with an alleged 540bhp). However, I feel that the quoted bhp was way above what it really had, as I achieved my 172mph with 385bhp (power produced at 6000 revs, speed achieved 500 revs past this), so if it was a true figure, he needed an extra 155bhp to go 7mph faster....
I realise that the faster you go the drag actually goes up expotentially, but I don't think it is quite by this much... But you would definitely need a substantial power increase (or improved aerodynamics) to gain even just a few mph past a certain point. I could have taken my mirrors off or pumped the tyres up to get a few extra mph on my runs, but I felt that that would have been cheating!
Next year my aim will be to take the record for a Cossie....
Best regards
Mike
You are 100% spot on. A Sapphire hits an areodynamic brick wall at 180mph, and so far the fastest recorded is 179.8 (this was with an alleged 540bhp). However, I feel that the quoted bhp was way above what it really had, as I achieved my 172mph with 385bhp (power produced at 6000 revs, speed achieved 500 revs past this), so if it was a true figure, he needed an extra 155bhp to go 7mph faster....
I realise that the faster you go the drag actually goes up expotentially, but I don't think it is quite by this much... But you would definitely need a substantial power increase (or improved aerodynamics) to gain even just a few mph past a certain point. I could have taken my mirrors off or pumped the tyres up to get a few extra mph on my runs, but I felt that that would have been cheating!
Next year my aim will be to take the record for a Cossie....
Best regards
Mike
04 November 1999, 03:32 PM
#162
ill try and find some pictures of the esprit.
Drag goes up as the square of speed for all techies out there. Thats why an F1 car hits a brick wall at 180MPH in monaco trim.
the saphire is much less draggy than an escort cossie, the escorts aero package is optimised for 120MPH for rallying. The 3 door coosie was optimised for circuit 150MPH speeds.
Drag goes up as the square of speed for all techies out there. Thats why an F1 car hits a brick wall at 180MPH in monaco trim.
the saphire is much less draggy than an escort cossie, the escorts aero package is optimised for 120MPH for rallying. The 3 door coosie was optimised for circuit 150MPH speeds.
04 November 1999, 04:39 PM
#164
Dear Craig,
Oh dear, so we got a bit carried away on the SCOOBY board, but at least you probably learned something....
Scoobies aren't so bad, as long as you know their limitations (141mph at Bruntingthorpe from a Prodrive model) - how could anyone drive such a Sloth?!
Anyway, I like your subtle (as a brick) sense of humour! Keep it coming...
Dear NickM,
As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen....
I like to think that I can take as good as I can give.....
Dear All,
I take it that the rest of you have fallen asleep from the boring string...
Sorry, will try and keep it a little bit Scooby orientated (yawn), but I find I drift off (zzzzzzzzz)....
Oh dear, so we got a bit carried away on the SCOOBY board, but at least you probably learned something....
Scoobies aren't so bad, as long as you know their limitations (141mph at Bruntingthorpe from a Prodrive model) - how could anyone drive such a Sloth?!
Anyway, I like your subtle (as a brick) sense of humour! Keep it coming...
Dear NickM,
As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen....
I like to think that I can take as good as I can give.....
Dear All,
I take it that the rest of you have fallen asleep from the boring string...
Sorry, will try and keep it a little bit Scooby orientated (yawn), but I find I drift off (zzzzzzzzz)....
04 November 1999, 05:00 PM
#165
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I found out why most cars are limited to 155mph the other day too incidently. Im sure eveyone else in the world knows this, just I was a bit slow.
Apparently this is the speed at which any object naturally attempts to become airbourne. I would love to know how light the steering in a cossie gets at 170mph...!
I have...
Lotus Esprit Turbo - first sports car. bought cos 1) I think they look great 2) LOTUS HANDLING!!! Its great and frankly the best second hand 'reasonably priced' real supercar you can get (IMHO). The performance is devastating and useable in real world situations, and fabulously balanced. Inside sucks a bit, and gear change isnt great, but apart from that its been totally trouble free for 2 years.
2) Marcos Mantis...love the looks and wanted a convertible...and POWER! very fast in a straight line, but not as capable as the lotus point to point. I personally think its better built and better sorted than any of the TVRs Ive tried - but again I think thats prolly personal opinion. Oh, and you can fit a supercharger to it - so I have!
3) Diablo - in my eyes the ultimate - always wanted one. Coolest doors in the world. I dont know who they get to test these things usually but I dont find it too wide, and Im 6'1" and dont have any 'cramped' probs either. Clutch is a bit heavy, fuel consumption sucks, but its just a major experience every time you get in it and take it anywhere. fastest one in the UK as far as Im aware.
4) MY98 Imprezza - needed a 'real' car - though to be honest the Esprit is very easy to live with most of the time. What I will use all winter though. Bought mainly cos of this bbs - and its such a laugh. More relaxing to drive than the others because its more 'normal'
5) X-reg BMW 320 with 98K miles. Bought cos it was 30 quid! Have no real comments to make yet as its only gone about 3 miles in my posession. Gonna paint it black and pretend to be a pimp.
Passenger rides in the Beamer anyone???
Night
p.s. The girlfriend (im not old enough for that dreadful marriage thing yet!) drives the Lambo.... fast
Apparently this is the speed at which any object naturally attempts to become airbourne. I would love to know how light the steering in a cossie gets at 170mph...!
I have...
Lotus Esprit Turbo - first sports car. bought cos 1) I think they look great 2) LOTUS HANDLING!!! Its great and frankly the best second hand 'reasonably priced' real supercar you can get (IMHO). The performance is devastating and useable in real world situations, and fabulously balanced. Inside sucks a bit, and gear change isnt great, but apart from that its been totally trouble free for 2 years.
2) Marcos Mantis...love the looks and wanted a convertible...and POWER! very fast in a straight line, but not as capable as the lotus point to point. I personally think its better built and better sorted than any of the TVRs Ive tried - but again I think thats prolly personal opinion. Oh, and you can fit a supercharger to it - so I have!
3) Diablo - in my eyes the ultimate - always wanted one. Coolest doors in the world. I dont know who they get to test these things usually but I dont find it too wide, and Im 6'1" and dont have any 'cramped' probs either. Clutch is a bit heavy, fuel consumption sucks, but its just a major experience every time you get in it and take it anywhere. fastest one in the UK as far as Im aware.
4) MY98 Imprezza - needed a 'real' car - though to be honest the Esprit is very easy to live with most of the time. What I will use all winter though. Bought mainly cos of this bbs - and its such a laugh. More relaxing to drive than the others because its more 'normal'
5) X-reg BMW 320 with 98K miles. Bought cos it was 30 quid! Have no real comments to make yet as its only gone about 3 miles in my posession. Gonna paint it black and pretend to be a pimp.
Passenger rides in the Beamer anyone???
Night
p.s. The girlfriend (im not old enough for that dreadful marriage thing yet!) drives the Lambo....
fast
04 November 1999, 05:09 PM
#166
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Mike,
Bet your mechanics don't have time to snooze off when you're around!
Anyway, what relevance is top speed? It's only useful if you're a sad git aRS owner, or a fat lardy oversize Italian superthing!!
And, more to the point (if there is one), you seem to harp on about the Imprezas weak engine - ain't that a bit rich, mechanical durability (not)?!!
Bet your mechanics don't have time to snooze off when you're around!
Anyway, what relevance is top speed? It's only useful if you're a sad git aRS owner, or a fat lardy oversize Italian superthing!!
And, more to the point (if there is one), you seem to harp on about the Imprezas weak engine - ain't that a bit rich, mechanical durability (not)?!!
04 November 1999, 05:12 PM
#167
Dear Nightmare,
Nice collection, glad to see that you also have a car from Norfolk in there. Which particular model Esprit is it? S4, S4S or an earlier one (or is it a horrible crappy totally over-rated V8)?
With regard to the stability - it was absolutely rock steady, no weaving no instability, just arrow straight and true. However, I have spent a lot of time setting it up. The ride height adjustable suspension was set with a nose down, bum up stance and an RS500 splitter fitted to increase the down force. The only problem was that I thought the pressure difference between the outside and inside (especially with ten year old seals!) was going to pull the doors off!
Dear Craig,
It is only the transmission that has suffered. On the engine front - I have NEVER had a melt down, cracked rod, crank, shell or piston. The car has always proved to be reliable from that point of view - just can't get me a diff to cope with 400+ lb ft of torque....
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
Nice collection, glad to see that you also have a car from Norfolk in there. Which particular model Esprit is it? S4, S4S or an earlier one (or is it a horrible crappy totally over-rated V8)?
With regard to the stability - it was absolutely rock steady, no weaving no instability, just arrow straight and true. However, I have spent a lot of time setting it up. The ride height adjustable suspension was set with a nose down, bum up stance and an RS500 splitter fitted to increase the down force. The only problem was that I thought the pressure difference between the outside and inside (especially with ten year old seals!) was going to pull the doors off!
Dear Craig,
It is only the transmission that has suffered. On the engine front - I have NEVER had a melt down, cracked rod, crank, shell or piston. The car has always proved to be reliable from that point of view - just can't get me a diff to cope with 400+ lb ft of torque....
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
04 November 1999, 05:14 PM
#168
dont know where you got that natural lift balony.
99% of all cars have an positive lift co-eficient due to the shape of the body, look at a car from the side, it looks like a wing.
most supercars that have a negative lift ratio do so by using the underside of the car to combat the lift generated by the shape of the upper body components.
Its pretty simple really, if the presure under the car is less than on top the car will grip better and will have downforce.
The reason F1 banned underbody tunnels was because they are the most efficient form of downforce/drag. That is why the difuser on the rear of an F1 car is constantly being reduced in size by the rule makers, as what this device does is speed up the airflow under the car, this reduces the presure, hence downforce. look under the diablo, i bet it has a shaped undertray and rear difuser section.
99% of all cars have an positive lift co-eficient due to the shape of the body, look at a car from the side, it looks like a wing.
most supercars that have a negative lift ratio do so by using the underside of the car to combat the lift generated by the shape of the upper body components.
Its pretty simple really, if the presure under the car is less than on top the car will grip better and will have downforce.
The reason F1 banned underbody tunnels was because they are the most efficient form of downforce/drag. That is why the difuser on the rear of an F1 car is constantly being reduced in size by the rule makers, as what this device does is speed up the airflow under the car, this reduces the presure, hence downforce. look under the diablo, i bet it has a shaped undertray and rear difuser section.
04 November 1999, 05:38 PM
#169
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Howdy..
Can I just say something...
Mike.. the reason your engine has never blown.. is because its not standard..
If an impreza engine was to be uprated...liners... pistons, rods, bolts, etc... then it would be able to run 500bhp too..
Horses for courses.. the engines should be like for like..2litre...running the same boost... same duration cams.... same turbo spec...etc...
You have new pistons ? rods? ,etc ? We can fit cosworth pistons, ARP rods and bolts, etc to the impreza turbo engine too... then, the same as yours will happen.. the tranny will fail...
But at least it would be like for like...
What would should be doing is comparing like for like... a standard cossie to a standard impreza...
There are cars out there with new pistons, rods, cranks, turbos, cams... albeit not many.. they will be kicking out 450'ish bhp...
I think the issue of speed is a little stupid.... I think you are trying to dwell on the points that your car will win at...
The start of this thread was to do with drivability, handling and acceleration.... all 3 combined.... Look at the Jun Impreza... 530'ish BHP... I'm sure that accelerates and has a high top speed... 9K redline... but it would be crap on a country lane... due to its massive turbo and lag...
What we impreza drives are after in abit of everything.... these are point to point cars (involving bends). If you want a 1/4m impreza... look in Australia....
J. *come on people.... give me some grief*
ps - Think we could get Mark (480bhp impreza) on the track with Mike ?
Can I just say something...
Mike.. the reason your engine has never blown.. is because its not standard..
If an impreza engine was to be uprated...liners... pistons, rods, bolts, etc... then it would be able to run 500bhp too..
Horses for courses.. the engines should be like for like..2litre...running the same boost... same duration cams.... same turbo spec...etc...
You have new pistons ? rods? ,etc ? We can fit cosworth pistons, ARP rods and bolts, etc to the impreza turbo engine too... then, the same as yours will happen.. the tranny will fail...
But at least it would be like for like...
What would should be doing is comparing like for like... a standard cossie to a standard impreza...
There are cars out there with new pistons, rods, cranks, turbos, cams... albeit not many.. they will be kicking out 450'ish bhp...
I think the issue of speed is a little stupid.... I think you are trying to dwell on the points that your car will win at...
The start of this thread was to do with drivability, handling and acceleration.... all 3 combined.... Look at the Jun Impreza... 530'ish BHP... I'm sure that accelerates and has a high top speed... 9K redline... but it would be crap on a country lane... due to its massive turbo and lag...
What we impreza drives are after in abit of everything.... these are point to point cars (involving bends). If you want a 1/4m impreza... look in Australia....
J. *come on people.... give me some grief*
ps - Think we could get Mark (480bhp impreza) on the track with Mike ?
04 November 1999, 06:03 PM
#170
Dear Firefox,
Aah at last someone to have a decent arguem.. er I mean discussion with!
What you are saying is partially correct, but the reason I had to replace those bits was because they had done a lot of miles.
The point I was originally making about the Cossie engine compared to the Scooby one is that it was built to win at Grp A racing and brand new, straight out of the crate, can be made to produce loads more than a Scooby engine (brand new straight out of the crate) can. This is because (as I have already stated) the Scooby engine was designed to run "only" 280 bhp, so all its components are built "down" to this spec (to keep the costs at an acceptable level and because in their country they have a mandatory gentleman's agreement horsepower limit set at this level, so there is no point in building an engine capable of producing more), whereas a Cossie engine was built expecting twice the power and so all its components are built "up" to this spec (which is why it cost £16k fifteen years ago - which then was considered to be a bargain for a 150mph car). Not much price difference between a Scooby and a Cossie now (£16k v £21k), but you think how much inflation has gone up since then, it's got to be equivalent to at least £25-30K in today's money (a 911 was £30k in those days, look what they are now!).
Which is why a Scooby is THE bargain car of the decade... So like for like, the Cossie engine is recognised by EVERYONE to be more tunable and reliable than an equivalent spec Subaru, because of the "paring down" cost factor to make the Scooby as cheap as it is. Also they thought that everyone would be happy with 280bhp! Talk to anyone in the "know" and they will tell you that the Impreza's weak link is the "cheap" con-rods which can't take anymore than 1.5 bar of boost. The STANDARD cossie rods could take another bar and the rods would STILL be safe, it would be the headgasket that went first....
LOL
Mike
PS. However, I would point out that if I was FORCED to have a choice out of being stuck with a 280 bhp engine with NEVER being allowed to tune it, then I would chose the Impreza EVERY time over ANY other engine. It is THE most characterful four pot in the world, and I wouldn't even bother with such frivolities as a stereo! It's only that I couldn't take a backward step in performance that I haven't got one, and I couldn't justify having yet another car to have both do the same thing....
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
Aah at last someone to have a decent arguem.. er I mean discussion with!
What you are saying is partially correct, but the reason I had to replace those bits was because they had done a lot of miles.
The point I was originally making about the Cossie engine compared to the Scooby one is that it was built to win at Grp A racing and brand new, straight out of the crate, can be made to produce loads more than a Scooby engine (brand new straight out of the crate) can. This is because (as I have already stated) the Scooby engine was designed to run "only" 280 bhp, so all its components are built "down" to this spec (to keep the costs at an acceptable level and because in their country they have a mandatory gentleman's agreement horsepower limit set at this level, so there is no point in building an engine capable of producing more), whereas a Cossie engine was built expecting twice the power and so all its components are built "up" to this spec (which is why it cost £16k fifteen years ago - which then was considered to be a bargain for a 150mph car). Not much price difference between a Scooby and a Cossie now (£16k v £21k), but you think how much inflation has gone up since then, it's got to be equivalent to at least £25-30K in today's money (a 911 was £30k in those days, look what they are now!).
Which is why a Scooby is THE bargain car of the decade... So like for like, the Cossie engine is recognised by EVERYONE to be more tunable and reliable than an equivalent spec Subaru, because of the "paring down" cost factor to make the Scooby as cheap as it is. Also they thought that everyone would be happy with 280bhp! Talk to anyone in the "know" and they will tell you that the Impreza's weak link is the "cheap" con-rods which can't take anymore than 1.5 bar of boost. The STANDARD cossie rods could take another bar and the rods would STILL be safe, it would be the headgasket that went first....
LOL
Mike
PS. However, I would point out that if I was FORCED to have a choice out of being stuck with a 280 bhp engine with NEVER being allowed to tune it, then I would chose the Impreza EVERY time over ANY other engine. It is THE most characterful four pot in the world, and I wouldn't even bother with such frivolities as a stereo! It's only that I couldn't take a backward step in performance that I haven't got one, and I couldn't justify having yet another car to have both do the same thing....
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 04-11-1999).]
04 November 1999, 08:25 PM
#171
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What a thread, twists, turns and mutated. I was looking at work earlier and a few of the guys in the office were in stitches with nightmare and mikes posts. I would have paid money to see mikes reaction when nightmare posted about his modified 624 bhp diablo.
I wonder if this thread will hit a brick wall at 180 posts
Cheers guys
forgot to add I have seen stef posts on the RS owners club site so the thread obviously worked.
Chrisp
MY88 Diesel Astra max van with modified rear padlock
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 04-11-1999).]
modified 624 bhp diablo. I wonder if this thread will hit a brick wall at 180 posts
Cheers guys
forgot to add I have seen stef posts on the RS owners club site so the thread obviously worked
.Chrisp
MY88 Diesel Astra max van with modified rear padlock
[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 04-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 12:07 AM
#172
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I can't believe this thread. I've been following it for days and have resisted comment until now, but some of the above is just too much.
How can anyone seriously argue that Fords are more reliable than Subarus. There is just no contest. Fords break down - I know this as my company insists on me driving Ford/Vauxhall hire cars and a Ford as broken down on me twice now. My wife used to have a Fiesta - it broke down repeatedly despite being less than one year old.
I have owned two Subarus and two Toyotas in which I have racked up over 250,000 miles in total. They have never ever broken down. In fact virtually nothing outside of routine items has ever even gone wrong.
Don't bother with one of your inane replies as I know you think differently so there's no need to point it out. At the end of the day I don't object to anyone liking Fords, just don't start talking ****e about them.
How can anyone seriously argue that Fords are more reliable than Subarus. There is just no contest. Fords break down - I know this as my company insists on me driving Ford/Vauxhall hire cars and a Ford as broken down on me twice now. My wife used to have a Fiesta - it broke down repeatedly despite being less than one year old.
I have owned two Subarus and two Toyotas in which I have racked up over 250,000 miles in total. They have never ever broken down. In fact virtually nothing outside of routine items has ever even gone wrong.
Don't bother with one of your inane replies as I know you think differently so there's no need to point it out. At the end of the day I don't object to anyone liking Fords, just don't start talking ****e about them.
05 November 1999, 12:09 AM
#173
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Stupid thing posted twice - it doesn't like the word 's h i t e' either does it?
[This message has been edited by tiggers (edited 05-11-1999).]
[This message has been edited by tiggers (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 12:14 AM
#174
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Firefox, bear in mind that Ford bought cosworth (a very well respected engine builder) because their own engines were pants.
Mike, I am expecting my history lesson on how much ford paid, technical aspects of cosworth engineering etc etc....
robski
Mike, I am expecting my history lesson on how much ford paid, technical aspects of cosworth engineering etc etc....
robski
05 November 1999, 12:29 AM
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This Scoob vs Cossie thread has been fascinating. Now where does an Evo fit into all this? How far do you reckon you can take the the Mitsubishi 4G63 engine? Well, in the US there are some seriously quick modified Eagle Talon's and Mitsubishi Eclipse's (both cars use the 4G63 engine, and the AWD system and chassis from the Evo 1). Check out this site:
05 November 1999, 12:43 AM
#176
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Mike,
I think you've just answered most of our questions.
You state engine parts lasting 10k+ miles.
Most Scooby owners expect even their modified cars to last a bit longer than that!
I'll answer J's comments on your time and commitment:-
He doesn't have a choice!!
This thread's like a Duracell battery!
I think you've just answered most of our questions.
You state engine parts lasting 10k+ miles.
Most Scooby owners expect even their modified cars to last a bit longer than that!
I'll answer J's comments on your time and commitment:-
He doesn't have a choice!!
This thread's like a Duracell battery!
05 November 1999, 12:44 AM
#177
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Mike,
I think you've just answered most of our questions.
You state engine parts lasting 10k+ miles.
Most Scooby owners expect even their modified cars to last a bit longer than that!
I'll answer J's comments on your time and commitment:-
He doesn't have a choice!!
This thread's like a Duracell battery!
And it repeats!
[This message has been edited by Craig H (edited 05-11-1999).]
I think you've just answered most of our questions.
You state engine parts lasting 10k+ miles.
Most Scooby owners expect even their modified cars to last a bit longer than that!
I'll answer J's comments on your time and commitment:-
He doesn't have a choice!!
This thread's like a Duracell battery!
And it repeats!
[This message has been edited by Craig H (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 12:44 AM
#178
Dear Tiggers,
You are obviously a bit of a thickie, as EVERYONE knows that Ford had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Cosworth engine. And I would concur with Robski that Ford engines a crap which is why they got Cosworth (best engine builder in the world) to build them a real engine.
Also I am not disputing the reliability of the standard Scooby engine (which if left alone is BOMB proof), but it is modifying them past 21 psi (which they don't seem to like). As JD Power will tell you, as an ALL round package the SCooby is unbeatable - 60,000 mile / three year warranty for Chrissakes! I'd like to see Ford do that....
Rest assured I'm not totally blinkered, but you really ought to read the threads properly before ranting and making a fool of yourself...
Dear Walt,
The fastest Cossie is under 8s, but this is not really a Cossie, it is a totally modified Methanol burning Nitro eating 800+bhp Monster in a funnycar (three-door shell) chasis. Can't remember the terminal, will have to go and look it up.
With regard to the Evo engine, I have heard that this is VERY strong, but in my opinion does not have the same character as the flat four boxer engine....
Dear Craig,
I was referring to the headgaskets, which only last this time with 2 bar of boost....
Best regards
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
You are obviously a bit of a thickie
, as EVERYONE knows that Ford had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Cosworth engine. And I would concur with Robski that Ford engines a crap which is why they got Cosworth (best engine builder in the world) to build them a real engine.Also I am not disputing the reliability of the standard Scooby engine (which if left alone is BOMB proof), but it is modifying them past 21 psi (which they don't seem to like). As JD Power will tell you, as an ALL round package the SCooby is unbeatable - 60,000 mile / three year warranty for Chrissakes! I'd like to see Ford do that....
Rest assured I'm not totally blinkered, but you really ought to read the threads properly before ranting and making a fool of yourself...
Dear Walt,
The fastest Cossie is under 8s, but this is not really a Cossie, it is a totally modified Methanol burning Nitro eating 800+bhp Monster in a funnycar (three-door shell) chasis. Can't remember the terminal, will have to go and look it up.
With regard to the Evo engine, I have heard that this is VERY strong, but in my opinion does not have the same character as the flat four boxer engine....
Dear Craig,
I was referring to the headgaskets, which only last this time with 2 bar of boost....
Best regards
Mike
[This message has been edited by Mike Rainbird (edited 05-11-1999).]
05 November 1999, 12:52 AM
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Howdy...
I like a good debate (argument)... lol
Cosworth exists just for BTCC ? erm... Last time I spoke to mate at Cosworth.. they were working on many projects.. not just BTCC.. *shrugs - perhaps he doesnt know what his company works on* lol
Come on folks... make this thread 200+ lol
Are you talking about the true RS500 engine or the common-or-garden (I go bang) cosworth engine ? lol
I'm still puzzled... if Cosworth/Ford.. have gone to ALLLLLL the trouble of putting internals in that can take twice (3 times?) the power of the standard engine.... why put a crappy gasket in ? I know teams will strip the engine down... but not just to change the gasket...if thats not the case... why not change the valves and stuff at the same time ?
I thought the Grp A cars had wilder cams ? *perhaps not again*
I completely agree the heritage between Cosworth and Subaru is not the same... unless you compare STi and Cosworth (I know cosworth will still win). But I expect that STi could produce a beast of a car (if allowed).
Showing my age ? Of course... I'm young... and proud of it
Back to you Mikey boy... lol
Long Live the Scoob.... PMSL
J.
I like a good debate (argument)... lol
Cosworth exists just for BTCC ? erm... Last time I spoke to mate at Cosworth.. they were working on many projects.. not just BTCC.. *shrugs - perhaps he doesnt know what his company works on* lol
Come on folks... make this thread 200+ lol
Are you talking about the true RS500 engine or the common-or-garden (I go bang) cosworth engine ? lol
I'm still puzzled... if Cosworth/Ford.. have gone to ALLLLLL the trouble of putting internals in that can take twice (3 times?) the power of the standard engine.... why put a crappy gasket in ? I know teams will strip the engine down... but not just to change the gasket...if thats not the case... why not change the valves and stuff at the same time ?
I thought the Grp A cars had wilder cams ? *perhaps not again*
I completely agree the heritage between Cosworth and Subaru is not the same... unless you compare STi and Cosworth (I know cosworth will still win). But I expect that STi could produce a beast of a car (if allowed).
Showing my age ? Of course... I'm young... and proud of it
Back to you Mikey boy... lol
Long Live the Scoob.... PMSL
J.