only a few minor things, brokered a few peace deals in the middle east that no one has been able to for 50 years+

 

Ah Jareds 'peace' deal yes

https://www.businessinsider.com/trum...20-9?r=US&IR=T


he really comes across as death warmed up ,doesn’t he ?

 

The Palestinians rejected the deal. That was the whole point wasn’t it?

 

problem is you read right leaning papers and its all singing all dancing.

Politics in the US has become about hatign the other side no matter what they do. Look at the dems, they wouldn;t even sign a aid package for covid without putting all sorts of imigration tie in's.

 

Tidgy, did you see what was in the aid package???? Basically it was tied up with tax cuts for all the big business and Trumps mates that the public it was meant to help would actually end up paying for. It was akin to giving you 10 pounds whilst taking 20 pounds from your wallet at the same time.

Plus the dems wanted to include protections that were already there for immigrants e.g. DACA and immigrants who were born in the US but parents came illegally. They were not trying to add crazy stuff like saying 'open our borders and let anyone in'

 

Shame Kwik isnt here to discuss finer points of all that Trump has done for americans

 

depends who you perceive it tbh which is the whole point, its so partisan over there nothign will get done

 

There are no two ways to perceive it. If a company pays 20% tax and the bill says they will pay 18.5% tax then that is a tax cut. It does not matter who you support or what language you speak.

 

your missing what i mean, the tax cuts will help things keep going is the general idea.


but the what has DACA and imigration got to do with a big lump of money and tax cuts?

 

Mostly not yet ratified remember (middle east deals)

Personally I see zero good in Trump either for America or the world more generally.

Most of his fanatical supporters, i'm not sure he would p*ss on if they were on fire. His agenda is just that, his own.
The supporters just another means to an end.

I hope it's all over soon.

 

problem is the dems are so obsessed with perceived racial issues, the green new deal and trump bad trump bad trump bad. I can see them drivig the US into the ground economy wise. I hope im wrong but i can't see it being a good thing dems getting in. Not to mentiont he whole biden and ukraine thing

 

Tidgy, you always seem pretty sensible on here.

There is no doubt there are huge race issues in the states, it’s a bit beyond perceived at this point. We have cops murdering people of colour on the streets.

The US economy along with the rest of the world must transition to greener fuels at some point.

We are all petrol heads on here, but the future of electric cars looks a lot more exciting than it did.

Bidens and Ukraine, there is no real evidence of wrongdoing, although it looks a bit fishy.
Compared to what Trump has certainly done and said over the years, I do t see how it could be an issue by the same measure of integrity.

Biden administration will be boring and that’s how it should be, it’s not supposed to be a comedy **** show running the no1 economy of the world.

 

 

I try to be and to weight up all the information, not just what the headline press say.

Ok, what race issues? other than some odd bad individual incidents, there is very little real evidence of a systematic racist police force. There will alwasy be bad apples in every barrel, but doesnt mean the whole thing is bad.

Couple of examples,

Brianna taylor. Police had a valid and fully legal search warrent, they breached the door, shouted police (neighbourghs have confirmed they heard this), her boy friend woke up, grabbed a gun and started shooting at police, they returned fire and she was hit in the crossfire.

Guy who charge police with a knife (cant remember his name but its mentioned in another thread on here), they backed off, he carry on coming, they shot him. This is all on body cam so no one disputes those facts. Yet the officers get accused of being racist.

Both the examples above are action triggered not by police, but by the other side. Had brianna taylors boyfriend not started shooting no shots would have been fired, had the guy with the knife dropped it he would have been arrested and no shots fired. There are examples of bad police behaviour, but the vast majority are not.

So lets throw this subject more widley. BLM claim that black folks are targetted more than white. I would agree, but also i ask why? When you look at statistics of gang membership, crime stats and such you find (in the US) hispanics and black makes make up 90% of gang members and are proportionaly more likley to be criminal offenders. So if you are going to go looking for criminals, where are you going to look? The same in the UK, 90% of gang members are black, so where are you going to go looking for gang activity?


Green energy, i agree it eventaly will the way to go, but the green new deal would have trigged a massive recesion in the US and the rest of the world. Even the democrats said it would cost the US alot of jobs and money, yet biden claimed it would make jobs and money in one fot he debates. EV are not at the stage where they are ready for mass use, they are too costly to make, produce too much polution to produce and leave alot fo bad stuff around to be thrown in land fill (batterys). in 10-20 years we may well be in a very different situation as technology develops, but right now it would be seriously bad.

If you think Biden will be running the US i suspect your in for a big shock, half the time he doesn't even know what day of the week it is, he even said he was running for senate in one of his speaches. Trump was unvestigate for the whle russia thing that turned out to be more or less made up adn the FBI investigation was based on a made up opinion peace (steal dossier), i'm not saying he's totaly innocent, but with the pretty convincing circumstantial evidence against Biden then shouldn't he be investigate as well?

Dems will basicly bring back in all the stuff that trump removed that obama had brought it and prob roll back alot of what trump did. Alot of the agreements trump pulled hte US out of did have various flaws, so how do you go about fixing them? or do you do nothign and plod along with the same old same old?

This also assumes Biden doesnt get impeached and doesnt step down within the first 6 months, which tbh i expect will happen.

Maybe im wrong, in fact i hope i'm wrong. But im sick of people using political correctness or social justice madness to try to deflect from what are the real problems we face.

 

Maybe ask why they are more likely to fall into gang culture?

Social justice is a pretty huge issue (to those who do not have it) interested to know what these real issues are or are we back to the black people again?

I’ve had enough of this convo.

 

I read a totally different account.
He asked various times who it was, the police just kept knocking, when the police rammed the door he fired one shot, the police returned fire, firing a total of 32 shots, most through the front window, even after knowing there was meant to be a child inside.

“Police interviews with Taylor’s neighbors didn’t clear up the confusion. Two neighbors said they didn’t hear the police knocking. One of them also said he was certain he didn’t hear police identify themselves. Another man gave three differing accounts.”

 

thats half the problem, not hearing something doesnt mean it didnt happen. Some confirmed they heard it. Always happens, get ten people, show them the sme thing and you will get 10 slightly different storys.

 

and there you go, statistic show where problems are, just becuase you can't accept that doesn't detract from them being true.

Is it racist? i would say no, why not? because it looks purley at crime stats and it show's it's where gangs tend to operate.

 

Brill

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1678653.html

 

That makes me happy

 

He he

 

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of people LOL

 

Let's be honest here......

If it were possible to "steal" the US election, who would be most likely to do it and be very good at doing it?

Yep, Republicans of course because they show little regard for honesty and integrity, bit of a generalisation but I'm going on their great leader. Tone from the top and all that.

 

Any chance he'll make the ultimate sacrifice ?


probably not

 

you do realise how corupt joe biden is?????

 

Compared to Trump? Really?
What Trump has been doing last 4 years is not normal, is not right.

He might have made some outrageous things seem normal, history will be very damning of him I'm sure of that.

The Trump supporters need to break the spell, because there is nothing good there, just a pathetic, egotisitcal, selfish old man.

 

I can agree he's a loud mouth egotistical person (name a politition that isnt), but tbh i dont care what he says, i care about actions and what policies get implamented.

What exactly has he done policy wise that are outragous? and don't say mean words, i mean real actions and policies?

and if you want to say the same about biden, then how about getting the ukrainina investigator fired and then bragging about it in a speach (you can actualy go watch the video of his speach on that one so no need to take it out of context).

 

You can't just say actions speak louder than words.

He was the president, his words have a major effect on his decipals. Hence you get them all chanting his slogans "lock her up", "stop the count" etc.
Then there are the somewhat racist things he has said, the failure to say that white supremicists should be condemned. Hinting about people rising up.
Then there is the infantile, "Crooked Hilary", "Sleepy Joe" and all the other nick names.

Presidents say things, people listen, it has a real effect. A President must know that with great power comes great responsibility. The list of things better not said is endless.

Policy/Action wise, well that's a goldmine.

Leaving Paris accord
Leaving WHO
Trying to build a wall
China trade war
Various false claims and poor response to Covid
Keeping parents from their children
Muslim travel ban
Cosying up foreign dictators while insulting allies
Threatening the stability of NATO
Suggesting to put the US Army on the streets to control "anarchists"
Clearing a group of peaceful protestors for a photo op
Exiting Iran nuclear deal


That's off the top of my head, I'm certain there are loads more eggregious actions, thanks for asking the question.

 

Is this the story you are talking about?

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...or/3785620002/

 

so to answer most of those in one line, the argument is they are not in the best interests of the US in their current form. Whether you agree or disagree with that is totaly based on your opinion. This is the same with paris accord, WHO, Iran that has continualy broken the agreement and Nato that the US funds considerably more than any other country which also don't fund what they have agree'd to (2% GDP if you want to know what). Then on the other breath accuse the US of being world police, how ironic.

China trade war. China has a history of copying of interlectual property, i dont think anyone will deny this, they also have a poor record of worker conditions meaning products are cheaper. How else do you combat that?

Muslim travel ban. This would presume that any muslim country is banned, which it wasn't, and i believe you will find Obama did exactly the same thing in slightly different wording.

Keeping children from their parents. Im so glad you brought this one up. First off the idea of seperating children from parents stems from before obama, but it was never enforced. Also if you get arrested in the UK are your children taken off you at the scene? yes they are. yet trump doesnt set uk law So that one is complete rubbish.

try to build a wall, you realise this is to stop illegal imigration?

Poor covid responce is totaly opinion based.

Cosying up with dictators and insults, well this happens all the time in every country, some worse than others and pretty typical of diplomancy. Corbyn for example met all sort of them, Biden met jerry adams and an IRA fugitive

Army on the streets. It was actualy the national guard, but In the end he didn't, so as i said his words and actions were different, although i would ask you how, when the police can't cope, would you deal with the protests, rioting and looting going on in the US.

moving protestors, isn;t the first to do it, and wont be the last. Im not excusing it, but its pretty standard.


I'm not saying i agree or disagree with the policies, but every single one you have said is based on opinion (which is what i said in the post), go to a trump support and they will say he was right, go to someone who doesnt and they will say he's wrong.