Notices
General Technical
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: CARiD

RCM headers vrs standard ported headers ?

Old Apr 20, 2020 | 05:50 PM
  #31  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Couple quick questions people,apologies to the O.P....what power are the standard pinks good for? Can anything be done to the vf35 to make significant increases in power? Cheers
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 05:55 PM
  #32  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by johno01
Couple quick questions people,apologies to the O.P....what power are the standard pinks good for? Can anything be done to the vf35 to make significant increases in power? Cheers
i think pinks are good for 400bhp with a fpr but dont quote me on that.
as for the turbo i was always told that the vf range could not be rebuilt HOWEVER i believe there is a chap on facebook called craig bellworthy who can rebuild/hybrid them. im not sure but he may be @ central turbo's.

Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 05:57 PM
  #33  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
the car was running 260bhp with sti headers mapped by power-station

i went down the typical route of

sti pinks
sti intercooler + sti scoop undertray
sti vf35 turbo
walbro pump
rcm induction kit
rcm headers with venturi up-pipe heat wrapped
full de-cat 3" exhaust with wrapped downpipe

i wasnt looking for the headers at the time but a set come up cheap (i mean really cheap) so i thought **** it why not. i certainly didnt regret it and never once thought my car felt un-responsive.
i agree they are not needed at his power level and im not saying they are better or worse than sti headers im just giving my input on what i found with them.

i have heard numerous cars from classics to newages with rcm headers and they certainly dont lose their burble unless of course they are the equal length headers.
Yeah I understand mate,i agree that you don't lose the burble with a RCM manifold fitted but the sound is not as pronounced as the o.e manifold...what I am saying is how much would you contribute that power to the fitting of the RCM manifold?especially with the other mods that you had fitted at the same time...what I am trying to get across is that if you still had the o.e headers fitted you could of ended up with the same total output or even more but i am speaking hypothetically,it was a dam good figure anyway for a WRX.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 05:57 PM
  #34  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
i think pinks are good for 400bhp with a fpr but dont quote me on that.
as for the turbo i was always told that the vf range could not be rebuilt HOWEVER i believe there is a chap on facebook called craig bellworthy who can rebuild/hybrid them. im not sure but he may be @ central turbo's.
thanks shrek
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:00 PM
  #35  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
Yeah I understand mate,i agree that you don't lose the burble with a RCM manifold fitted but the sound is not as pronounced as the o.e manifold...what I am saying is how much would you contribute that power to the fitting of the RCM manifold?especially with the other mods that you had fitted at the same time...what I am trying to get across is that if you still had the o.e headers fitted you could of ended up with the same total output or even more but i am speaking hypothetically,it was a dam good figure anyway for a WRX.SJ.
im just going off what the mapper told me, he said that the headers were a contributing factor in the power/spool it produced.
yes it was good power for a wrx...........so good that it never made it out of rcm's car park for a trial run as it big-ended itself on their dyno after the final power run
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:01 PM
  #36  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by johno01
thanks shrek
i think alot of people port the vf35 for better flow. i had a major issue with boost but that was down to the fake samco inlet pipe i bought sucking itself shut. swapped it out for a genuine one and it solved the problem
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:04 PM
  #37  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

You won't touch 400bhp with pinks and if you could you would be at 100%+duty cycle,i guess with uprated fuel pump and FPR you could be close, but i would advise you not to be maxing out your injectors....650cc or upwards injectors would be doable.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:06 PM
  #38  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
im just going off what the mapper told me, he said that the headers were a contributing factor in the power/spool it produced.
yes it was good power for a wrx...........so good that it never made it out of rcm's car park for a trial run as it big-ended itself on their dyno after the final power run
Fair enough.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:06 PM
  #39  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
i think alot of people port the vf35 for better flow. i had a major issue with boost but that was down to the fake samco inlet pipe i bought sucking itself shut. swapped it out for a genuine one and it solved the problem
thanks mate, 2 grand for a sc42 is an awful lot but I no it’s worth it. Whereas if I can get 400Bhp for a grand less I’d take that any day if you get me.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:08 PM
  #40  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
You won't touch 400bhp with pinks and if you could you would be at 100%+duty cycle,i guess with uprated fuel pump and FPR you could be close, but i would advise you not to be maxing out your injectors....650cc or upwards injectors would be doable.SJ.
cheers mate, I will get ported headers, new injectors, undecided on turbo....remap...see what happens
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:11 PM
  #41  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
You won't touch 400bhp with pinks and if you could you would be at 100%+duty cycle,i guess with uprated fuel pump and FPR you could be close, but i would advise you not to be maxing out your injectors....650cc or upwards injectors would be doable.SJ.
is there a rule of thump that each 100cc added to the injector will give you X amount of bhp?

i have denso 750cc in my hawk sti and ive always wondered what they are good for?
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:13 PM
  #42  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

John by the sound of it you want to run around the 400 bhp mark?The biggest decision you will make with a Subaru in my opinion is the turbocharger as they are not cheap, fit the right one for the job and you will never have to worry about it letting go an sh1ting itself at those power and torque levels.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:13 PM
  #43  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by johno01
thanks mate, 2 grand for a sc42 is an awful lot but I no it’s worth it. Whereas if I can get 400Bhp for a grand less I’d take that any day if you get me.
it is alot of money. there is a gt3071r on ebay at the minute that im keeping my eye on, if i can get it at a good price i would send it to turbo dynamics for a re-fresh so could possibly save alot of money that way. i had a gt30 before and they hit like a hammer
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:18 PM
  #44  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
John by the sound of it you want to run around the 400 bhp mark?The biggest decision you will make with a Subaru in my opinion is the turbocharger as they are not cheap, fit the right one for the job and you will never have to worry about it letting go an sh1ting itself at those power and torque levels.SJ.
yes mate, plus I will probably get 300 for my current vf35....I bought my last blob with all The mods already done, this is costing me a bomb haha, good job my girlfriend is happy with her scratch cards. If she new the truth about my car I’m not sure where I’d be right now but probably in a barrel of acid dissolving away Brazilian style
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:25 PM
  #45  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
is there a rule of thump that each 100cc added to the injector will give you X amount of bhp?

i have denso 750cc in my hawk sti and ive always wondered what they are good for?
shrek everything comes down to the duty cycle that the injectors are run at, how much fuel that your engine needs for any given bhp figure,in general they state that no injectors should be run at more then 80% duty cycle my 1050cc injectors on my car are at 90%+ so their is a lot of variables to take Into consideration,as I am running 3 fuel pumps and a FPR to parallel fuel lines on my set up, with the right set up your 750cc injectors could take you to the high 400bhp I would estimate.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:30 PM
  #46  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
shrek everything comes down to the duty cycle that the injectors are run at, how much fuel that your engine needs for any given bhp figure,in general they state that no injectors should be run at more then 80% duty cycle my 1050cc injectors on my car are at 90%+ so their is a lot of variables to take Into consideration,as I am running 3 fuel pumps and a FPR to parallel fuel lines on my set up, with the right set up your 750cc injectors could take you to the high 400bhp I would estimate.SJ.
thanks buddy i understand now, its something ive been pretty ignorant to if im honest.

do people still de-cap the pinks? is that a big no-no
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:31 PM
  #47  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
shrek everything comes down to the duty cycle that the injectors are run at, how much fuel that your engine needs for any given bhp figure,in general they state that no injectors should be run at more then 80% duty cycle my 1050cc injectors on my car are at 90%+ so their is a lot of variables to take Into consideration,as I am running 3 fuel pumps and a FPR to parallel fuel lines on my set up, with the right set up your 750cc injectors could take you to the high 400bhp I would estimate.SJ.
you certainly have a masterpiece there mate BUT how reliable are they at that power your running? If I could afford it mate I would tbh
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:33 PM
  #48  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
it is alot of money. there is a gt3071r on ebay at the minute that im keeping my eye on, if i can get it at a good price i would send it to turbo dynamics for a re-fresh so could possibly save alot of money that way. i had a gt30 before and they hit like a hammer
All this turbo talk brings back memories of when I purchased my last one from SC for my project,it just left me with empty pockets and a brass wallet....

but it was worth it!.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:34 PM
  #49  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
All this turbo talk brings back memories of when I purchased my last one from SC for my project,it just left me with empty pockets and a brass wallet....

but it was worth it!.SJ.
beautiful.........
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:37 PM
  #50  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by johno01
you certainly have a masterpiece there mate BUT how reliable are they at that power your running? If I could afford it mate I would tbh
John my car is super reliable now after SC fixed certain niggles for methe only problem that I have now is intercooler hoses blowing off on boost and fuel cost.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:43 PM
  #51  
johno01's Avatar
johno01
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,118
Likes: 673
From: north west
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
John my car is super reliable now after SC fixed certain niggles for methe only problem that I have now is intercooler hoses blowing off on boost and fuel cost.SJ.
what a great problem to have! The guys a scoobyclinic are spot on hopefully I will see you car one day mate
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:46 PM
  #52  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
thanks buddy i understand now, its something ive been pretty ignorant to if im honest.

do people still de-cap the pinks? is that a big no-no
They do shrek but that is the low budget way of doing things my friend blew up his engine doing it like that on his Cosworth running big boost on decapped injectors, it's not worth taking the chance really mate,as you can never be 100% sure that all the injectors will be flowing exactly the same and you will definitely have variables in Flow,its best just to upgrade to injectors that are set and manufactured to flow at their giving cc output.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 06:59 PM
  #53  
m40ttc's Avatar
m40ttc
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 114
Likes: 19
From: The English riviera
Default

I payed £235 last year for as ported headers, that included postage and all new gaskets.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 07:01 PM
  #54  
the shreksta's Avatar
the shreksta
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (20)
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 8,445
Likes: 497
From: hinckley
Default

Originally Posted by m40ttc
I payed £235 last year for as ported headers, that included postage and all new gaskets.
is it on an exchange basis?
is it worth wrapping the std headers?
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 07:16 PM
  #55  
m40ttc's Avatar
m40ttc
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 114
Likes: 19
From: The English riviera
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
is it on an exchange basis?


is it worth wrapping the std headers?
yeah I gave al a few weeks notice and he had a set ready when enginetuner sent him mine.



He didn’t say anything about wrapping them, he just swapped all the heat shields over from my set, I got a uppipe from him that’s wrapped and a turbo blanket which I think made quiet a bit of difference.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 07:34 PM
  #56  
Mich035's Avatar
Mich035
Thread Starter
Scooby Regular
 
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 62
Likes: 4
From: glasgow
Default

Talking of VF35's has anybody or know anybody that has ever bought a complete balanced billet turbo cartridge and fitted it themselves ? Maybe port it aswell , reason a ask is my turbo could do with a refresh and doing it that way is about £200
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 07:41 PM
  #57  
Henrik's Avatar
Henrik
Scooby Regular
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 151
From: London
Default

Originally Posted by the shreksta
thanks buddy i understand now, its something ive been pretty ignorant to if im honest.

do people still de-cap the pinks? is that a big no-no
I don't think anyone ever decapped the pinks (because of the way the pintle cap is attached AFAIK), however the standard WRX injectors (light blue, NOT dark blue) decapped are a thing.

My car was mapped for a running in map on decapped injectors, which I made myself, HOWEVER I also built myself a flow bench for the injectors, and decapped a whole bunch, and picked the best matched set for flow (all within 2% of each other, which is about the variability I've seen with standard injector sets). The decapped do tend to have quite big variability in terms of flow if you just do one set. The set I picked out flowed 730cc at 3 bar, however I had injectors that flowed high 600s and much higher 700s. I even built a jig for the lathe to be able to decap them without mullering them

I never noticed any running / idling problems on mine, and it passed MOT emissions, so I think if you do them "right", they can work very well for not a lot of money.


Regarding pinks, I also ran them up to about 390bhp (Simon's road dyno), but that was at 4bar static pressure (with an adjustable FPR).
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 08:32 PM
  #58  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by Henrik
I don't think anyone ever decapped the pinks (because of the way the pintle cap is attached AFAIK), however the standard WRX injectors (light blue, NOT dark blue) decapped are a thing.

My car was mapped for a running in map on decapped injectors, which I made myself, HOWEVER I also built myself a flow bench for the injectors, and decapped a whole bunch, and picked the best matched set for flow (all within 2% of each other, which is about the variability I've seen with standard injector sets). The decapped do tend to have quite big variability in terms of flow if you just do one set. The set I picked out flowed 730cc at 3 bar, however I had injectors that flowed high 600s and much higher 700s. I even built a jig for the lathe to be able to decap them without mullering them

I never noticed any running / idling problems on mine, and it passed MOT emissions, so I think if you do them "right", they can work very well for not a lot of money.


Regarding pinks, I also ran them up to about 390bhp (Simon's road dyno), but that was at 4bar static pressure (with an adjustable FPR).
A friend of my mate runs De-capped pinks in his bugeye and has for a while now so I guess you can!....What boost was you running to make 390bhp and what was the duty cycle?.SJ.
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 08:57 PM
  #59  
Henrik's Avatar
Henrik
Scooby Regular
20 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
iTrader: (5)
 
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 4,154
Likes: 151
From: London
Default

Originally Posted by stonejedi
A friend of my mate runs De-capped pinks in his bugeye and has for a while now so I guess you can!....What boost was you running to make 390bhp and what was the duty cycle?.SJ.
Interesting - did not know that was possible!

It was 1.54bar on a td05-20g, with a 5 litre can of E85 per brimmed tank of V-power. I don't know what the duty cycle was sadly, but we definitely had to up the fuel pressure massively. Might have even been 4.5 bar static (This was probably back in about 2010 or there-abouts).
Reply
Old Apr 20, 2020 | 09:10 PM
  #60  
stonejedi's Avatar
stonejedi
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (51)
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,439
Likes: 149
Default

Originally Posted by Henrik
Interesting - did not know that was possible!

It was 1.54bar on a td05-20g, with a 5 litre can of E85 per brimmed tank of V-power. I don't know what the duty cycle was sadly, but we definitely had to up the fuel pressure massively. Might have even been 4.5 bar static (This was probably back in about 2010 or there-abouts).
Yeah E85 can do thatEither way that is still a very impressive bhp figure on STI pinks,i would guess that the pinks would off been practically maxed out though.SJ.
Reply

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:56 AM.