crap TD04 hybrid upgrade. Help.
23 February 2019, 11:19 PM
#33
I don't know enough about mapping to know whether duty cycles could be seen but I'd have thought if that were an obvious issue he'd have spotted it.
Next thing is to check for boost leak. If that's clear I'm not sure whether to get a harvey up pipe or look for a vf28. Dynos I've seen for them look considerably better than mine in spool, boost and torque.
How do I test the actuator? I have a bike pump with gauge so might be possible. I've not yet tried boosting without actuator connected. That's tomorrow.
Next thing is to check for boost leak. If that's clear I'm not sure whether to get a harvey up pipe or look for a vf28. Dynos I've seen for them look considerably better than mine in spool, boost and torque.
How do I test the actuator? I have a bike pump with gauge so might be possible. I've not yet tried boosting without actuator connected. That's tomorrow.
23 February 2019, 11:25 PM
#34
What injectors are you on? A quick spot the difference between your spec and mine makes me think that that's the route cause. Might also be the reason why the mapper hasn't gone for more boost as the standard WRX injectors won't deliver enough fuel to keep the AFR healthy at higher boost (remember that the hybrid will be providing a higher mass flow rate of air than the standard TD04 will at the same boost, hence why boost has been turned down). I'm on 550cc STI pinks and it made something like 304bhp and 303lbft @ 1.3 bar.
I remember another guy on here who had the same spec as you and got circa 285bhp and was told that the injectors were maxed out.
I remember another guy on here who had the same spec as you and got circa 285bhp and was told that the injectors were maxed out.
24 February 2019, 11:41 AM
#35
Scooby Regular
why don't you take it to a subaru specialist who maps and works on cars they will know whats wrong probably something simple who built the turbo by the way mine was done by craig bellworthy
24 February 2019, 12:15 PM
#36
I replaced plugs and IACV (which had been giving trouble). There is not as much go low down as there was but I definitely notice it doesn't run out of puff past about 5.5K like it used to. Probably by about 4K revs the improvement is noticeable, and it's quite nice at about 6-6.5K, But that's not how I generally drive, and not primarily what I was after. I wanted more low to midrange torque.
24 February 2019, 12:16 PM
#37
24 February 2019, 02:49 PM
#38
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Did you do a boost leak test? I took my FMIC pipe work off once to do a job, put it all back on, all clamps tight but the car just wasn't boosting as expected. I made a tube I could connect at turbo inlet with a Schroeder valve on it, pressurised the system to 1bar and had leaks from several of the hose joiners even know the clamps were tight as well as a leak at the throttle body gasket. It was causing weird pulsations with the boost and not reaching the previous peak pressure. Had to reseat all the hoses and tighten up again and fit new TB gasket. I've also had weak spool which was caused by a crap up-pipe gasket and another time by a cracked exhaust manifold crossover pipe which wasn't noticeably leaking at idle but clearly was when pressures built up in the exhaust when driving hard... just a couple of suggestions anyway, good luck
Last edited by GazJenno; 24 February 2019 at 02:51 PM.
25 February 2019, 04:20 PM
#39
Did you do a boost leak test? I took my FMIC pipe work off once to do a job, put it all back on, all clamps tight but the car just wasn't boosting as expected. I made a tube I could connect at turbo inlet with a Schroeder valve on it, pressurised the system to 1bar and had leaks from several of the hose joiners even know the clamps were tight as well as a leak at the throttle body gasket. It was causing weird pulsations with the boost and not reaching the previous peak pressure. Had to reseat all the hoses and tighten up again and fit new TB gasket. I've also had weak spool which was caused by a crap up-pipe gasket and another time by a cracked exhaust manifold crossover pipe which wasn't noticeably leaking at idle but clearly was when pressures built up in the exhaust when driving hard... just a couple of suggestions anyway, good luck
25 February 2019, 05:31 PM
#40
Scooby Regular
all new nuts bolts and studs and gaskets should of been used when fitting
26 February 2019, 09:31 AM
#41
I don't know enough about mapping to know whether duty cycles could be seen but I'd have thought if that were an obvious issue he'd have spotted it.
Next thing is to check for boost leak. If that's clear I'm not sure whether to get a harvey up pipe or look for a vf28. Dynos I've seen for them look considerably better than mine in spool, boost and torque.
How do I test the actuator? I have a bike pump with gauge so might be possible. I've not yet tried boosting without actuator connected. That's tomorrow.
Next thing is to check for boost leak. If that's clear I'm not sure whether to get a harvey up pipe or look for a vf28. Dynos I've seen for them look considerably better than mine in spool, boost and torque.
How do I test the actuator? I have a bike pump with gauge so might be possible. I've not yet tried boosting without actuator connected. That's tomorrow.
Trev
26 February 2019, 10:45 AM
#42
With all respect, there is no way of getting 330bhp (crank guesstimate) from 380cc injectors at 90%. You'd be very lucky to get near to 300bhp @ 100%. It's a simple physics calculation - there won't be enough fuel supplied to burn the amount of oxygen required to produce that power figure.
26 February 2019, 11:11 AM
#43
With all respect, there is no way of getting 330bhp (crank guesstimate) from 380cc injectors at 90%. You'd be very lucky to get near to 300bhp @ 100%. It's a simple physics calculation - there won't be enough fuel supplied to burn the amount of oxygen required to produce that power figure.
Trev
just to confirm they were 380's.
Last edited by trevsjwood; 26 February 2019 at 12:08 PM.
26 February 2019, 11:35 AM
#44
Rolling roads measure power at the wheels. The 330bhp crank figure is at best a calculation using assumed transmission losses, at worst a guess. It should also be considered what can be produced once on a RR pull doesn't relate to what can actually be replicated, regularly without destruction outside of that controlled environment
Whereas fuel quantity / flow required for any given power is a mathematical equation.
Whereas fuel quantity / flow required for any given power is a mathematical equation.
26 February 2019, 04:24 PM
#45
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Technopug. You're going off topic with this and without any real reason.... but pretty sure if you do the math... 380cc/min from 4 injectors provides enough energy for 1096HP.... after thermal losses, pumping losses etc you'll be looking at 25-30% of that so could have anywhere between 275-365hp usable HP. Not saying you're wrong (330bhp would be a push) but you've gone down a pointless tangent with lots of unknowns... same as the RR argument assuming transmission losses. Although they do estimate transmission losses they do it in a pretty clever/accurate way.
28 February 2019, 09:49 AM
#48
I think what is off tangent, though I don't mind a spot of the tangential occasionally, is that there is (almost) no way injectors, which were not changed, would give a dyno output like that.
28 February 2019, 12:02 PM
#49
Did you check pre-load on the actuator? You probably want about 2 or 3mm pre-load at least, possibly a good deal more
If you have a boost gauge AND you are very careful with your right foot, you can try driving with the vacuum pipe disconnected from the actuator, which will in theory not limit the boost at all. This means you can check that turbo is capable of providing the boost required, and issue is purely with boost control piping etc (e.g. is pill still in the pipe?)
28 February 2019, 12:38 PM
#51
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strange how the inlet temp is 17 degrees cooler than the ambient?
02 March 2019, 12:00 AM
#52
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05 March 2019, 10:10 AM
#53
I could try putting the old actuator and piping back on though I guess I'd need to adjust it myself, which I've not done before. But, as I say, at lift-off following acceleration it does give a pwssshhh sound (which previous one didn't, oddly), which suggests to me something going from fully closed to open, rather than something that's crept partially open or is partially open. Mechanics checking for boost leaks and exhaust leaks today. I did clean the maf sensor, which was dirty, but this has had no effect.
13 March 2019, 11:15 AM
#54
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What injectors are you on? A quick spot the difference between your spec and mine makes me think that that's the route cause. Might also be the reason why the mapper hasn't gone for more boost as the standard WRX injectors won't deliver enough fuel to keep the AFR healthy at higher boost (remember that the hybrid will be providing a higher mass flow rate of air than the standard TD04 will at the same boost, hence why boost has been turned down). I'm on 550cc STI pinks and it made something like 304bhp and 303lbft @ 1.3 bar.
I remember another guy on here who had the same spec as you and got circa 285bhp and was told that the injectors were maxed out.
I remember another guy on here who had the same spec as you and got circa 285bhp and was told that the injectors were maxed out.
remember that the hybrid will be providing a higher mass flow rate of air than the standard TD04 will at the same boost, hence why boost has been turned down
03 April 2019, 04:34 PM
#56
What are your other mods? Hybrid TD04, pink injectors, what kind of exhaust (full exhaust or just DP? catted or not?)? Are you on stock WRX IC?
I remeber that Andy Forrest said something opposite about his hybrids. He recommended running them on 1,3-1,4 boost to achieve full potential.
I remeber that Andy Forrest said something opposite about his hybrids. He recommended running them on 1,3-1,4 boost to achieve full potential.
Original map was for 1.3bar max and that's what the new one was mapped to as well, except boost never reached 1.3bar. Mapper didn't turn boost down.
Still not got to the bottom of the problem. Ignition issues sorted and idle air control valve issues sorted. Haven't taken it back yet to mapper. Still undecided whether to spend on a harvey up-pipe.
It might be going a little better now, but hard to say. It's possible there was some crap in the up-pipe following fitting. Maybe one of the up-pipe gaskets was not a good fit. I dunno. Pain in the ****. For about £800 i was expecting something more than just an extra 20bhp at the top end.
03 April 2019, 09:28 PM
#58
Agreed. You only have to look at the boost plot to know it's not the injectors. The boost control is poor, and you have less boost, and later onset of boost. All bad things!
Did you check pre-load on the actuator? You probably want about 2 or 3mm pre-load at least, possibly a good deal more
If you have a boost gauge AND you are very careful with your right foot, you can try driving with the vacuum pipe disconnected from the actuator, which will in theory not limit the boost at all. This means you can check that turbo is capable of providing the boost required, and issue is purely with boost control piping etc (e.g. is pill still in the pipe?)
Did you check pre-load on the actuator? You probably want about 2 or 3mm pre-load at least, possibly a good deal more
If you have a boost gauge AND you are very careful with your right foot, you can try driving with the vacuum pipe disconnected from the actuator, which will in theory not limit the boost at all. This means you can check that turbo is capable of providing the boost required, and issue is purely with boost control piping etc (e.g. is pill still in the pipe?)
03 April 2019, 09:38 PM
#59
Just read that you changed over boost/vacuum pipes with the new actuator/turbo. Did the restrictor pill remain in the correct pipe? It's key to get boost control working on the oe boost solenoid. There should be a little bulge in the pipe, near the compressor nipple.
04 April 2019, 09:02 AM
#60
Scooby Regular
if thats the case then its a pretty pi%% poor show if the mapper didn't realise / check the boost pill was missing??
any any mechanic for that matter.....
any any mechanic for that matter.....
