Martin McGuiness dead!
22 March 2017, 07:26 PM
#61
On another note I had a girlfriend who I lived with and her sisters husband was a decorated Para and went to all the remembrance gatherings all over the world. He was a genuinely nice guy and served in numerous places including N.I. he owned a pub and with the inevitable odd lock in and a few loose tongues with a drop of drink used to say it was a disgrace the way the Catholics were treated.
22 March 2017, 08:57 PM
#64
Yet again no valid argument, just insults.
But you just like your mate Trooper, gave up the right to a valid opinion, you're both complicit in the killing of innocent people... so hardly in a position of strength from which to comment.
You're both for all intents and purposes are no different to those you condemn.
Save your bull $h!t propaganda for the dead people of all the wars you've been involved in where allied forces bombed people from 10.000 feet and wiped out innocent civilians along with the "enemy" of the greedy money mad billionaires that you really serve.
Sad but true my friend.
But you just like your mate Trooper, gave up the right to a valid opinion, you're both complicit in the killing of innocent people... so hardly in a position of strength from which to comment.
You're both for all intents and purposes are no different to those you condemn.
Save your bull $h!t propaganda for the dead people of all the wars you've been involved in where allied forces bombed people from 10.000 feet and wiped out innocent civilians along with the "enemy" of the greedy money mad billionaires that you really serve.
Sad but true my friend.
You're no friend of mine and you have no idea what I may or may not have done during my time in the military, or where I might have served.
It's sad that you so hate the country of your birth that you must constantly revile it, but I guess the British people rejected you and you'll never forgive us for that.
23 March 2017, 06:33 AM
#65
You're no friend of mine and you have no idea what I may or may not have done during my time in the military, or where I might have served.
It's sad that you so hate the country of your birth that you must constantly revile it, but I guess the British people rejected you and you'll never forgive us for that.
It's sad that you so hate the country of your birth that you must constantly revile it, but I guess the British people rejected you and you'll never forgive us for that.
There you go again... putting words in my mouth and making yet another one of your very poor attempts to psychoanalyse me.I'll help you out shall I... despite what you might think... I don't "hate" England or anything else for that matter... it's a strong emotion that I'd rather not carry around.
I'm a realist that's been around long enough to recognise bull $h!t when I see it... all this for Queen and Country, helping poor innocent civilians is Bollocks... it's all about serving greedy £ucker$ (see what I did there) and making sure the status quo is maintained.
Soldiers, Police are pawns in this game... which basically boils down to "do what we say or else" ... the or else part is... they come along with their 'Gang'... because that is all it is
...and bully the 'whom so ever they choose' into doing what they want... by force Now you and your comrade dress yourselves and the situation up anyway you like... but that ... 'my friend' ... is the reality...
P.S;
I live where I do so as to have as little to do with it all as possible.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 23 March 2017 at 08:12 AM.
23 March 2017, 09:53 AM
#67
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Here's a question for those in this thread with a military background.
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
23 March 2017, 10:24 AM
#68
It's irrelevant where you served or what you did or did not do... just by joining the military... you became part of ALL acts committed by said forces... like it or not you became co-accused... and as such are as guilty as those pushing buttons or pulling triggers.
Signing up means you agree with and abide by rules regs and actions, and basically give up your rights to independent thought...
So basically you're no different from the rest of us, "do what we want / do as you're told or else."
But hey I don't expect you to get it... and it's not my job to try to enlighten you... that's a journey we must all make alone.
23 March 2017, 11:31 AM
#69
Here's a question for those in this thread with a military background.
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
The only difference is they get paid to murder legally. It appears that might be back firing on them now. There's a few court cases going on for unlawful killing.
23 March 2017, 11:45 AM
#70
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Here's a question for those in this thread with a military background.
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
Where ever you stand on what happened during the troubles, at the end of the day Martin McGuiness and the likes were all fighting for what they believed in. Now i'm going to make a sweeping assumption that those of you who enlisted did so to fight for what you believe in, so what makes you right and them wrong?
23 March 2017, 12:34 PM
#71
This whole thing makes me so sad. And all over two different versions of the same fairy story.
I wonder how many of you actually lived through the Troubles? I mean were alive and taking notice, when it all kicked off?
And how many are just regurgitating history as it's written?
I wonder how many of you actually lived through the Troubles? I mean were alive and taking notice, when it all kicked off?
And how many are just regurgitating history as it's written?
23 March 2017, 01:40 PM
#72
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Anyone posting on here who thinks the IRA were just "freedom fighters" seeking to rid their country of the oppresive British are very much mistaken.
Whilst I have certain sympathy with the original "cause", the IRA (and equally the UDA, UVF and all) latterly had evolved into highly organised criminal organisations, concerned more with the generation of wealth than "the cause"
My father had signifcant business interests in Northern Ireland. That business (and many others) had to pay significant sums to faceless men to ensure "nothing bad could happen" The extortion rackets were rife.
He was there on a weekly basis throughout the troubles. As a family we lived with that as I was growing up and I remember it well.
McGuiness was a murderer. No question. As were many on either side. But you can't bring back the dead. And irrespective of his reasons for doing so, you cannot and must not ignore the lives saved as a result of his part in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
Am I glad he's dead? Absolutely. Do I hope he suffered? Without question. But there has to be balance.
Whilst I have certain sympathy with the original "cause", the IRA (and equally the UDA, UVF and all) latterly had evolved into highly organised criminal organisations, concerned more with the generation of wealth than "the cause"
My father had signifcant business interests in Northern Ireland. That business (and many others) had to pay significant sums to faceless men to ensure "nothing bad could happen" The extortion rackets were rife.
He was there on a weekly basis throughout the troubles. As a family we lived with that as I was growing up and I remember it well.
McGuiness was a murderer. No question. As were many on either side. But you can't bring back the dead. And irrespective of his reasons for doing so, you cannot and must not ignore the lives saved as a result of his part in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
Am I glad he's dead? Absolutely. Do I hope he suffered? Without question. But there has to be balance.
Last edited by Devildog; 23 March 2017 at 01:44 PM.
23 March 2017, 01:48 PM
#74
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23 March 2017, 01:51 PM
#75
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Just thought I'd answer this bit as I forgot.
It's irrelevant where you served or what you did or did not do... just by joining the military... you became part of ALL acts committed by said forces... like it or not you became co-accused... and as such are as guilty as those pushing buttons or pulling triggers.
Signing up means you agree with and abide by rules regs and actions, and basically give up your rights to independent thought...
So basically you're no different from the rest of us, "do what we want / do as you're told or else."
But hey I don't expect you to get it... and it's not my job to try to enlighten you... that's a journey we must all make alone.
It's irrelevant where you served or what you did or did not do... just by joining the military... you became part of ALL acts committed by said forces... like it or not you became co-accused... and as such are as guilty as those pushing buttons or pulling triggers.
Signing up means you agree with and abide by rules regs and actions, and basically give up your rights to independent thought...
So basically you're no different from the rest of us, "do what we want / do as you're told or else."
But hey I don't expect you to get it... and it's not my job to try to enlighten you... that's a journey we must all make alone.
Ditch
You are so full of **** sometimes, you really are.
Not only that but your post above contradicts itself. How can you be "as guilty as those having pulled the trigger" having "given up your right to independent thought".
You really do get out of your depth sometimes
Its you who rarely "gets it" Your posts are clear evidence of that.
23 March 2017, 01:53 PM
#77
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23 March 2017, 01:55 PM
#78
A well written piece from another Forum.
For many Roman Catholics living in Ulster, there was no future in a place riven with blatant everyday discrimination against catholics at every level. The whole state apparatus was rigidly controlled at every level.
The evidence for this is now readily available by independent academics, mostly from English universities. But perhaps it's best exemplified by quoting some of the eminent Unionist protestant politicians of the day: Lord Brookborough and William Craig, both N Ire Prime Ministers in the Unionist controlled Stormont government. "I will not have a catholic (working) about the place: While I am in charge, no catholic will ever be employed in this place (Stormont)" Other blatant examples was that of allocating council controlled housing to single unmarried protestants while catholic families with several children languished for years on housing waiting lists.
The 1960's era was when disadvantaged catholics became more aware and unaccepting of this discrimination. Greater media awareness and an increased catholic educated middle class articulated the injustices, leading to the formation of the civil rights movement.
The attempts towards equality were met by the Unionist majority politicians through excessive police brutality. The police force (RUC) and their reservists (the B Specials) were almost entirely protestant and controlled by the unionist government.
When whole areas of Belfast and Derry were being subjected to violent attacks, burning out houses etc at the hands of "loyalist" gangs (usually poorly educated protestant youths from impovrished areas feeling 'threatened' by what they saw as uppity catholic/nationalist/republican demands) eventually the British army was called in by Westminister to protect catholic areas. Rev Ian Paisley and the like were much to blame for whipping up such violence.
This is the background to young impressionable catholic men like McGuiness becoming involved in what they saw as an effort to protect their communities, and out of this the provisional IRA was born. The British government, as in virtually every other colonial dispute, (Palestine;India;Kenya;Cyprus etc) made a complete mess of handling the situation. For example: internment was introduced. This imprisoned without charge or trial large numbers of young catholic men simply on the basis of religion and spurious claims of being anti the state. This, and other grievances provided fertile ground for the beginning of the armed struggle against both the British government and Unionist domination of all aspects of N. Ireland life.
The tragedy of so many lost lives, soldiers, police and civilians is hugely regrettable, and I do not attempt to condone it in any way. But in attempting to understand long standing historical grievances (which in Ireland go back centuries) and the origins roots and development of the N. Ireland "troubles" is much more complex and demanding than simply engaging in "whataboutery", and blaming "the other side", from one's own possibly limited perspective.
N Ireland is a much better place now despite all the current uncertainties. And it's largely thanks to people like McGuiness and Paisley who eventually matured to realise we have more in common than what separates us, and that for the common good we have to learn to live and work together through all our differences.
For many Roman Catholics living in Ulster, there was no future in a place riven with blatant everyday discrimination against catholics at every level. The whole state apparatus was rigidly controlled at every level.
The evidence for this is now readily available by independent academics, mostly from English universities. But perhaps it's best exemplified by quoting some of the eminent Unionist protestant politicians of the day: Lord Brookborough and William Craig, both N Ire Prime Ministers in the Unionist controlled Stormont government. "I will not have a catholic (working) about the place: While I am in charge, no catholic will ever be employed in this place (Stormont)" Other blatant examples was that of allocating council controlled housing to single unmarried protestants while catholic families with several children languished for years on housing waiting lists.
The 1960's era was when disadvantaged catholics became more aware and unaccepting of this discrimination. Greater media awareness and an increased catholic educated middle class articulated the injustices, leading to the formation of the civil rights movement.
The attempts towards equality were met by the Unionist majority politicians through excessive police brutality. The police force (RUC) and their reservists (the B Specials) were almost entirely protestant and controlled by the unionist government.
When whole areas of Belfast and Derry were being subjected to violent attacks, burning out houses etc at the hands of "loyalist" gangs (usually poorly educated protestant youths from impovrished areas feeling 'threatened' by what they saw as uppity catholic/nationalist/republican demands) eventually the British army was called in by Westminister to protect catholic areas. Rev Ian Paisley and the like were much to blame for whipping up such violence.
This is the background to young impressionable catholic men like McGuiness becoming involved in what they saw as an effort to protect their communities, and out of this the provisional IRA was born. The British government, as in virtually every other colonial dispute, (Palestine;India;Kenya;Cyprus etc) made a complete mess of handling the situation. For example: internment was introduced. This imprisoned without charge or trial large numbers of young catholic men simply on the basis of religion and spurious claims of being anti the state. This, and other grievances provided fertile ground for the beginning of the armed struggle against both the British government and Unionist domination of all aspects of N. Ireland life.
The tragedy of so many lost lives, soldiers, police and civilians is hugely regrettable, and I do not attempt to condone it in any way. But in attempting to understand long standing historical grievances (which in Ireland go back centuries) and the origins roots and development of the N. Ireland "troubles" is much more complex and demanding than simply engaging in "whataboutery", and blaming "the other side", from one's own possibly limited perspective.
N Ireland is a much better place now despite all the current uncertainties. And it's largely thanks to people like McGuiness and Paisley who eventually matured to realise we have more in common than what separates us, and that for the common good we have to learn to live and work together through all our differences.
23 March 2017, 09:53 PM
#82
Anyone posting on here who thinks the IRA were just "freedom fighters" seeking to rid their country of the oppresive British are very much mistaken.
Whilst I have certain sympathy with the original "cause", the IRA (and equally the UDA, UVF and all) latterly had evolved into highly organised criminal organisations, concerned more with the generation of wealth than "the cause"
My father had signifcant business interests in Northern Ireland. That business (and many others) had to pay significant sums to faceless men to ensure "nothing bad could happen" The extortion rackets were rife.
He was there on a weekly basis throughout the troubles. As a family we lived with that as I was growing up and I remember it well.
McGuiness was a murderer. No question. As were many on either side. But you can't bring back the dead. And irrespective of his reasons for doing so, you cannot and must not ignore the lives saved as a result of his part in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
Am I glad he's dead? Absolutely. Do I hope he suffered? Without question. But there has to be balance.
Whilst I have certain sympathy with the original "cause", the IRA (and equally the UDA, UVF and all) latterly had evolved into highly organised criminal organisations, concerned more with the generation of wealth than "the cause"
My father had signifcant business interests in Northern Ireland. That business (and many others) had to pay significant sums to faceless men to ensure "nothing bad could happen" The extortion rackets were rife.
He was there on a weekly basis throughout the troubles. As a family we lived with that as I was growing up and I remember it well.
McGuiness was a murderer. No question. As were many on either side. But you can't bring back the dead. And irrespective of his reasons for doing so, you cannot and must not ignore the lives saved as a result of his part in bringing peace to Northern Ireland.
Am I glad he's dead? Absolutely. Do I hope he suffered? Without question. But there has to be balance.
23 March 2017, 10:14 PM
#83
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You Sir are full of it everything has to be funded by something as your fathers business did/does. Your signature says it all to me personally, Responsible Rottie Owner well generally their owned by insecure little big men and The real world you most definitely are not in. I have just returned home from Mr McGuiness's funeral to see your B******t and wonder quite were you get your opinions from. There must of been an awful lot of people today who are wrong.
In a lot of cases they acted like nothing but low life thugs, bullying and terrorising their own communities with threats, protection rackets, smuggling and drug dealing. (Although they always tried to portray themselves as anti drugs....)
Sure some were there for "ideological" reasons, others were there because they were criminals/thugs who only wanted to line their own pockets whilst hiding behind the banner of PIRA/OIRA/CIRA/RIRA.... whatever the latest incarnation is
24 March 2017, 12:11 AM
#84
How exactly is he "full of it" when you admit "everything had to be funded by something"?
In a lot of cases they acted like nothing but low life thugs, bullying and terrorising their own communities with threats, protection rackets, smuggling and drug dealing. (Although they always tried to portray themselves as anti drugs....)
Sure some were there for "ideological" reasons, others were there because they were criminals/thugs who only wanted to line their own pockets whilst hiding behind the banner of PIRA/OIRA/CIRA/RIRA.... whatever the latest incarnation is
In a lot of cases they acted like nothing but low life thugs, bullying and terrorising their own communities with threats, protection rackets, smuggling and drug dealing. (Although they always tried to portray themselves as anti drugs....)
Sure some were there for "ideological" reasons, others were there because they were criminals/thugs who only wanted to line their own pockets whilst hiding behind the banner of PIRA/OIRA/CIRA/RIRA.... whatever the latest incarnation is
24 March 2017, 12:13 AM
#85
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24 March 2017, 12:21 AM
#86
Ditch
You are so full of **** sometimes, you really are.
Not only that but your post above contradicts itself. How can you be "as guilty as those having pulled the trigger" having "given up your right to independent thought".
You really do get out of your depth sometimes
Its you who rarely "gets it" Your posts are clear evidence of that.
You are so full of **** sometimes, you really are.
Not only that but your post above contradicts itself. How can you be "as guilty as those having pulled the trigger" having "given up your right to independent thought".
You really do get out of your depth sometimes
Its you who rarely "gets it" Your posts are clear evidence of that.
We've been here before and I've just ignored you... why... because your a typical establishment pompus self rigtheous superior 4r$ehole that thinks he knows it all, thing is it's easy to make snide remarks about everyone and everything when you come from a privileged background and had life handed to you on a plate.
You're just another spoilt **** with a good education that thinks it makes you intelligent... well news flash smarty pants... you're just an other mug.
24 March 2017, 12:31 AM
#88
Wow! you guys really are fixated with the emotion of Hate... Like I said before... I DON'T HATE ANYTHING... clear enough for you???????????
As I said before, I don't fit into your boxes my friend... I'm an Individual... I see, think and feel for myself... no one tells me what to think, see or feel... I don't follow the crowd... NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.
I get that you find this hard to comprehend because there aren't many like me.
I see what's going on here, if you don't, as I said before... "it's not my responsibility to enlighten you" you'll either get there or you won't matters not to me.
Now go and play devils advocate with someone of you're own intellect and understanding... leave us superior beings to be getting on with more important matters.
As I said before, I don't fit into your boxes my friend... I'm an Individual... I see, think and feel for myself... no one tells me what to think, see or feel... I don't follow the crowd... NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.
I get that you find this hard to comprehend because there aren't many like me.
I see what's going on here, if you don't, as I said before... "it's not my responsibility to enlighten you" you'll either get there or you won't matters not to me.
Now go and play devils advocate with someone of you're own intellect and understanding... leave us superior beings to be getting on with more important matters.
24 March 2017, 12:34 AM
#89
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Wow! you guys really are fixated with the emotion of Hate... Like I said before... I DON'T HATE ANYTHING... clear enough for you???????????
As I said before, I don't fit into your boxes my friend... I'm an Individual... I see, think and feel for myself... no one tells me what to think, see or feel... I don't follow the crowd... NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.
I get that you find this hard to comprehend because there aren't many like me.
I see what's going on here, if you don't, as I said before... "it's not my responsibility to enlighten you" you'll either get there or you won't matters not to me.
Now go and play devils advocate with someone of you're own intellect and understanding... leave us superior beings to be getting on with more important matters.
As I said before, I don't fit into your boxes my friend... I'm an Individual... I see, think and feel for myself... no one tells me what to think, see or feel... I don't follow the crowd... NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL.
I get that you find this hard to comprehend because there aren't many like me.
I see what's going on here, if you don't, as I said before... "it's not my responsibility to enlighten you" you'll either get there or you won't matters not to me.
Now go and play devils advocate with someone of you're own intellect and understanding... leave us superior beings to be getting on with more important matters.