So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
22 June 2018, 08:28 AM
#2823
Scooby Regular
but anyway - the Manufacturing of UK cars by UK car companies has been for gone decades - before even the EU/SM/CU
What membership of the EU/SM/CU promoted was the inward investment of foreign companies such as Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Ford/BMW etc to build cars here - in state of the art productions lines
This then promoted a secondary industry in cutting edge research and design together with a supplier ecosystem feeding of the large foreign direct investments
Brexit takes a sledgehammer to all that - which is why we will see car manufacturing and the associated design and support industries move to the EU - it is simply inevitable
Much like Rolls Royce engineering and now Airbus
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...-scenario.html
from Airbuses risk assessment (downloadable as a PDF)
In the absence of a Brexit agreement, UK aerospace companies will not be covered anymore under existing regulatory approvals including EASA approvals. All UK companies will need to transfer their DOA, POA and MOA into the EU. This means that should a single supplier not be certified, its parts cannot be installed and consequently prevent the delivery of aircraft. It is therefore vital that the EU supply chain gets duly prepared.
but then I posted a comment about the airline/aerospace industry being fvcked over a year ago
but detailed risk assessment aside from the press release Airbus are pretty clear
"In any scenario, Brexit has severe negative consequences for the UK aerospace industry and Airbus in particular. Therefore, immediate mitigation measures would need to be accelerated. While Airbus understands that the political process must go on, as a responsible business we require immediate details on the pragmatic steps that should be taken to operate competitively. Without these, Airbus believes that the impacts on our UK operations could be significant. We have sought to highlight our concerns over the past 12 months, without success. Far from Project Fear, this is a dawning reality for Airbus. Put simply, a No Deal scenario directly threatens Airbus’ future in the UK."
and still the flat earthers will say .........
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 June 2018 at 08:32 AM.
22 June 2018, 09:23 AM
#2824
Scooby Regular
Not sure quite where to start with this claptrap
but anyway - the Manufacturing of UK cars by UK car companies has been for gone decades - before even the EU/SM/CU
What membership of the EU/SM/CU promoted was the inward investment of foreign companies such as Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Ford/BMW etc to build cars here - in state of the art productions lines
This then promoted a secondary industry in cutting edge research and design together with a supplier ecosystem feeding of the large foreign direct investments
Brexit takes a sledgehammer to all that - which is why we will see car manufacturing and the associated design and support industries move to the EU - it is simply inevitable
Much like Rolls Royce engineering and now Airbus
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...-scenario.html
from Airbuses risk assessment (downloadable as a PDF)
In the absence of a Brexit agreement, UK aerospace companies will not be covered anymore under existing regulatory approvals including EASA approvals. All UK companies will need to transfer their DOA, POA and MOA into the EU. This means that should a single supplier not be certified, its parts cannot be installed and consequently prevent the delivery of aircraft. It is therefore vital that the EU supply chain gets duly prepared.
but then I posted a comment about the airline/aerospace industry being fvcked over a year ago
but detailed risk assessment aside from the press release Airbus are pretty clear
"In any scenario, Brexit has severe negative consequences for the UK aerospace industry and Airbus in particular. Therefore, immediate mitigation measures would need to be accelerated. While Airbus understands that the political process must go on, as a responsible business we require immediate details on the pragmatic steps that should be taken to operate competitively. Without these, Airbus believes that the impacts on our UK operations could be significant. We have sought to highlight our concerns over the past 12 months, without success. Far from Project Fear, this is a dawning reality for Airbus. Put simply, a No Deal scenario directly threatens Airbus’ future in the UK."
and still the flat earthers will say .........
but anyway - the Manufacturing of UK cars by UK car companies has been for gone decades - before even the EU/SM/CU
What membership of the EU/SM/CU promoted was the inward investment of foreign companies such as Honda/Toyota/Nissan/Ford/BMW etc to build cars here - in state of the art productions lines
This then promoted a secondary industry in cutting edge research and design together with a supplier ecosystem feeding of the large foreign direct investments
Brexit takes a sledgehammer to all that - which is why we will see car manufacturing and the associated design and support industries move to the EU - it is simply inevitable
Much like Rolls Royce engineering and now Airbus
https://www.airbus.com/newsroom/pres...-scenario.html
from Airbuses risk assessment (downloadable as a PDF)
In the absence of a Brexit agreement, UK aerospace companies will not be covered anymore under existing regulatory approvals including EASA approvals. All UK companies will need to transfer their DOA, POA and MOA into the EU. This means that should a single supplier not be certified, its parts cannot be installed and consequently prevent the delivery of aircraft. It is therefore vital that the EU supply chain gets duly prepared.
but then I posted a comment about the airline/aerospace industry being fvcked over a year ago
but detailed risk assessment aside from the press release Airbus are pretty clear
"In any scenario, Brexit has severe negative consequences for the UK aerospace industry and Airbus in particular. Therefore, immediate mitigation measures would need to be accelerated. While Airbus understands that the political process must go on, as a responsible business we require immediate details on the pragmatic steps that should be taken to operate competitively. Without these, Airbus believes that the impacts on our UK operations could be significant. We have sought to highlight our concerns over the past 12 months, without success. Far from Project Fear, this is a dawning reality for Airbus. Put simply, a No Deal scenario directly threatens Airbus’ future in the UK."
and still the flat earthers will say .........
how many of the 100 UK car manufacturers over the past 100 years are still in business? or didnt you know there has been that many? from your comment i would guess not
How many of those who have survived are still british owned?
It's pretty clear no mater what happens or whats said you know better and its going to be doom and gloom. Your using speculation and opinion as fact yet we don't know what will happen. If you claim you do know what will happen then your are lying plain and simple becuase no one knows what will happen in the future.
22 June 2018, 09:37 AM
#2826
Scooby Senior
If the wage squeeze wasn't hurting enough, now tax rises are coming to fund the NHS because that Brexit dividend doesn't exist.
I actually approve of the tax rises though, its what has been needed all along! Maybe if they had raised taxes 20 to 30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the state we are in now!
As Hodgy pointed out above, **** is starting to hit the fan with industry now. This sentence sums it up for me: "Far from Project Fear, this is a dawning reality for Airbus." I don't think project fear was far wrong, it was just never going to happen over night and the weak pound has somewhat countered the effects in the beginning, but at the same time driven inflation which is now really hurting.
Meanwhile, I'm sure Ree-Smogg and his fellow rich Tory elitists are doing exceedingly well, both financially and furthering their political careers.
I actually approve of the tax rises though, its what has been needed all along! Maybe if they had raised taxes 20 to 30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the state we are in now!
As Hodgy pointed out above, **** is starting to hit the fan with industry now. This sentence sums it up for me: "Far from Project Fear, this is a dawning reality for Airbus." I don't think project fear was far wrong, it was just never going to happen over night and the weak pound has somewhat countered the effects in the beginning, but at the same time driven inflation which is now really hurting.
Meanwhile, I'm sure Ree-Smogg and his fellow rich Tory elitists are doing exceedingly well, both financially and furthering their political careers.
22 June 2018, 11:50 AM
#2827
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you obviously have no idea of the history of the british car industry if you think thats claptrap.
how many of the 100 UK car manufacturers over the past 100 years are still in business? or didnt you know there has been that many? from your comment i would guess not
How many of those who have survived are still british owned?
It's pretty clear no mater what happens or whats said you know better and its going to be doom and gloom. Your using speculation and opinion as fact yet we don't know what will happen. If you claim you do know what will happen then your are lying plain and simple becuase no one knows what will happen in the future.
how many of the 100 UK car manufacturers over the past 100 years are still in business? or didnt you know there has been that many? from your comment i would guess not
How many of those who have survived are still british owned?
It's pretty clear no mater what happens or whats said you know better and its going to be doom and gloom. Your using speculation and opinion as fact yet we don't know what will happen. If you claim you do know what will happen then your are lying plain and simple becuase no one knows what will happen in the future.
I'm really not sure the nationality of the owner of a company is important is it...it's all the positive 'stuff' it being in business and employing people does that's important...isn't it?
I was always under the impression the UK car industry failed was because it couldn't build a product that was of an acceptable level at a competitive cost...?
22 June 2018, 12:37 PM
#2829
Scooby Senior
The period of loss may be short to medium term, but to recover to where were are (or at least were before the Brexit vote) will take decades if at all and that is definitely a long term loss!
22 June 2018, 12:37 PM
#2830
Scooby Regular
I'm really not sure the nationality of the owner of a company is important is it...it's all the positive 'stuff' it being in business and employing people does that's important...isn't it?
I was always under the impression the UK car industry failed was because it couldn't build a product that was of an acceptable level at a competitive cost...?
I was always under the impression the UK car industry failed was because it couldn't build a product that was of an acceptable level at a competitive cost...?
22 June 2018, 02:50 PM
#2831
Scooby Senior
Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand or are you so clouded with Brexit euphoria that you're currently not capable of understanding?
The downfall of the UK (as in British owned, British made) car manufacturing industry happened in the 70's and 80's, so of course it was nothing to do with Brexit!
I stand to be corrected, but I'm not aware of any significant car manufacturers that are 100% owned and manufactured in the UK. A couple of manufacturers e.g. Ford, Vauxhall (opel), JLR, have been around in the UK since well before we joined the EU. Others e.g. Honda, Nissan, are non EU manufacturers that have created new manufacturing bases in the UK as a direct result of the UK's membership of the EU and attractive subsidies and corporate tax structure offered by the government of the time of the investment (in most cases Thatcher). For all major manufacturers in the UK in todays market, the same factories are producing vehicles for both the domestic and EU wide markets. Generally, each model will be produced on a single production line. E.g. some Vauxhall models will be produced in the UK with Opel badges and shipped to Europe, while other models will be produced at the Open factory in Germany with Vauxhall badges and shipped to the UK.
In the vast majority of cases, there are more vehicle models manufactured in the UK that are exported to the EU than sold domestically (yes there may be a few exceptions, but saying the "Nissonda Rhdonly" sells more in the UK doesn't invalidate the argument!). As such, the additional costs attributed to Brexit with no customs union or trade deals to cover vehicle manufacturing, it will be significantly cheaper to shift manufacturing to the continent such that only UK sales are subject to any new tariffs and trade within the EU which accounts for the majority of sales remains unaffected (actually there may be savings from shifting to cheaper labour in Eastern Europe and attractive investment kickbacks). The majority of the additional costs for the UK will most likely be passed on to the UK customer. And all that is without even considering the vehicle type approval argument! Sure, "Nissonda" may still manufacture the "Rhdonly" in the UK if it still makes sense to do so, but the total vehicle production would be fraction of what there previously was.
Its also important to consider, that manufacturers aren't going to just close sites overnight. Each model has a lifecycle and generally when a model changes, then the production lines are upgraded and new tooling is produced before manufacturing of the replacement is started. No manufacturer will move production of an exiting line because the moving costs will be higher than the Brexit costs. The move will come at the end of a model life-cycle (usually every 5 years or so). One by one, as each model reaches then end of its production run, the UK manufacturing wil be cut and cut until there is nothing left except for Morgan hand building 20'odd wooden cars a year the same way they used to in the 30's!
The downfall of the UK (as in British owned, British made) car manufacturing industry happened in the 70's and 80's, so of course it was nothing to do with Brexit!
I stand to be corrected, but I'm not aware of any significant car manufacturers that are 100% owned and manufactured in the UK. A couple of manufacturers e.g. Ford, Vauxhall (opel), JLR, have been around in the UK since well before we joined the EU. Others e.g. Honda, Nissan, are non EU manufacturers that have created new manufacturing bases in the UK as a direct result of the UK's membership of the EU and attractive subsidies and corporate tax structure offered by the government of the time of the investment (in most cases Thatcher). For all major manufacturers in the UK in todays market, the same factories are producing vehicles for both the domestic and EU wide markets. Generally, each model will be produced on a single production line. E.g. some Vauxhall models will be produced in the UK with Opel badges and shipped to Europe, while other models will be produced at the Open factory in Germany with Vauxhall badges and shipped to the UK.
In the vast majority of cases, there are more vehicle models manufactured in the UK that are exported to the EU than sold domestically (yes there may be a few exceptions, but saying the "Nissonda Rhdonly" sells more in the UK doesn't invalidate the argument!). As such, the additional costs attributed to Brexit with no customs union or trade deals to cover vehicle manufacturing, it will be significantly cheaper to shift manufacturing to the continent such that only UK sales are subject to any new tariffs and trade within the EU which accounts for the majority of sales remains unaffected (actually there may be savings from shifting to cheaper labour in Eastern Europe and attractive investment kickbacks). The majority of the additional costs for the UK will most likely be passed on to the UK customer. And all that is without even considering the vehicle type approval argument! Sure, "Nissonda" may still manufacture the "Rhdonly" in the UK if it still makes sense to do so, but the total vehicle production would be fraction of what there previously was.
Its also important to consider, that manufacturers aren't going to just close sites overnight. Each model has a lifecycle and generally when a model changes, then the production lines are upgraded and new tooling is produced before manufacturing of the replacement is started. No manufacturer will move production of an exiting line because the moving costs will be higher than the Brexit costs. The move will come at the end of a model life-cycle (usually every 5 years or so). One by one, as each model reaches then end of its production run, the UK manufacturing wil be cut and cut until there is nothing left except for Morgan hand building 20'odd wooden cars a year the same way they used to in the 30's!
22 June 2018, 05:10 PM
#2832
Scooby Regular
Are you deliberately trying to misunderstand or are you so clouded with Brexit euphoria that you're currently not capable of understanding?
The downfall of the UK (as in British owned, British made) car manufacturing industry happened in the 70's and 80's, so of course it was nothing to do with Brexit!
The downfall of the UK (as in British owned, British made) car manufacturing industry happened in the 70's and 80's, so of course it was nothing to do with Brexit!
22 June 2018, 08:23 PM
#2835
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There mus actually be figures out there for proportion flat earthers amongst brexiters v general population
would be intresting to know wouldnt it
just to confirm anyway !
would be intresting to know wouldnt it
just to confirm anyway !
22 June 2018, 10:30 PM
#2836
Scooby Regular
all loony tune nutcases - everything from Evolution denial, Climate change denial, anti vaxxers, lizard people, chemtrails, 911 twooferism, moon hoaxers and flatearthers - and Brexit
not every Brexit voter is a crank, but every crank voted Brexit
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 June 2018 at 10:44 PM.
22 June 2018, 11:11 PM
#2838
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Pick a crank, any crank, from David Icke to Melanie Philips, Minford and piers corbyn via James Delingpole
all loony tune nutcases - everything from Evolution denial, Climate change denial, anti vaxxers, lizard people, chemtrails, 911 twooferism, moon hoaxers and flatearthers - and Brexit
not every Brexit voter is a crank, but every crank voted Brexit
all loony tune nutcases - everything from Evolution denial, Climate change denial, anti vaxxers, lizard people, chemtrails, 911 twooferism, moon hoaxers and flatearthers - and Brexit
not every Brexit voter is a crank, but every crank voted Brexit
26 June 2018, 12:58 PM
#2841
But at least we're taking back control! Control of very little, but control.....
All those countries will be rubbing their hands at trade deals, because they know we'll be so worse off we'll be willing to take anything!
All those countries will be rubbing their hands at trade deals, because they know we'll be so worse off we'll be willing to take anything!
27 June 2018, 11:51 AM
#2842
Scooby Regular
and the stark warning from BMW, Honda and others that they will simply move investment into the EU (which they are already doing btw - BMW investing in expanding their Netherlands plant)
Honda told the Financial Times on Tuesday that it stored only enough parts to keep its Honda Civic production line in Swindon going for 36 hours. The car giant added it would need a warehouse the size of 42 football pitches to keep enough parts in stock to last for just nine days.
not surprising that the SMMT said after a conference yesterday
“There is no credible ‘plan B’ for frictionless customs arrangements, nor is it realistic to expect that new trade deals can be agreed with the rest of the world that will replicate the immense value of trade with the EU. Government must rethink its position on the customs union.”
because all we have is continual "they need us more than we need them" flatearth nonsense
even JRM's hedge fund has opened an office in Dublin - what utter mugs and thickos he must take Leavers for
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 27 June 2018 at 11:55 AM.
27 June 2018, 11:52 AM
#2843
Scooby Regular
and blue passports - never forget blue passports !!!
27 June 2018, 12:50 PM
#2844
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but many many more than that,
and the stark warning from BMW, Honda and others that they will simply move investment into the EU (which they are already doing btw - BMW investing in expanding their Netherlands plant)
Honda told the Financial Times on Tuesday that it stored only enough parts to keep its Honda Civic production line in Swindon going for 36 hours. The car giant added it would need a warehouse the size of 42 football pitches to keep enough parts in stock to last for just nine days.
not surprising that the SMMT said after a conference yesterday
“There is no credible ‘plan B’ for frictionless customs arrangements, nor is it realistic to expect that new trade deals can be agreed with the rest of the world that will replicate the immense value of trade with the EU. Government must rethink its position on the customs union.”
because all we have is continual "they need us more than we need them" flatearth nonsense
even JRM's hedge fund has opened an office in Dublin - what utter mugs and thickos he must take Leavers for
and the stark warning from BMW, Honda and others that they will simply move investment into the EU (which they are already doing btw - BMW investing in expanding their Netherlands plant)
Honda told the Financial Times on Tuesday that it stored only enough parts to keep its Honda Civic production line in Swindon going for 36 hours. The car giant added it would need a warehouse the size of 42 football pitches to keep enough parts in stock to last for just nine days.
not surprising that the SMMT said after a conference yesterday
“There is no credible ‘plan B’ for frictionless customs arrangements, nor is it realistic to expect that new trade deals can be agreed with the rest of the world that will replicate the immense value of trade with the EU. Government must rethink its position on the customs union.”
because all we have is continual "they need us more than we need them" flatearth nonsense
even JRM's hedge fund has opened an office in Dublin - what utter mugs and thickos he must take Leavers for
"**** business"
27 June 2018, 01:34 PM
#2845
Scooby Senior
So, that smarmy **** Rees-Mogg is prepared for Brexit by moving his investment fund to Dublin!
https://www.ft.com/content/38987fe2-...3-6c13e5c92914
Nice to see him practicing what he preaches!
https://www.ft.com/content/38987fe2-...3-6c13e5c92914
Nice to see him practicing what he preaches!
27 June 2018, 10:50 PM
#2846
Does this shock you? Nigel Lawson who chaired the Brexit campaign has applied for residency in France. These ***** wants brexit but they have no intention of paying for it.
27 June 2018, 11:16 PM
#2847
Nigel Lawson has said he loves Europe ,not the EU. completely different.
Re financial, it's just common business sense. My involvement in a manufacturing business has opened an European branch. My investments are predominantly outside UK and Europe, because they give the best returns. When the UK has left the EU, and becomes an attractive investment, I will probably choose to invest
Re financial, it's just common business sense. My involvement in a manufacturing business has opened an European branch. My investments are predominantly outside UK and Europe, because they give the best returns. When the UK has left the EU, and becomes an attractive investment, I will probably choose to invest
27 June 2018, 11:31 PM
#2848
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Nigel Lawson has said he loves Europe ,not the EU. completely different.
Re financial, it's just common business sense. My involvement in a manufacturing business has opened an European branch. My investments are predominantly outside UK and Europe, because they give the best returns. When the UK has left the EU, and becomes an attractive investment, I will probably choose to invest
Re financial, it's just common business sense. My involvement in a manufacturing business has opened an European branch. My investments are predominantly outside UK and Europe, because they give the best returns. When the UK has left the EU, and becomes an attractive investment, I will probably choose to invest
28 June 2018, 02:21 AM
#2850
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How and why should we suddenly become an attractive place to invest in is the key here ?
Unless of course we're relying here on forcing the EU to fall apart
Unless of course we're relying here on forcing the EU to fall apart