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So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.

Old 16 November 2016, 07:42 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
I'm not sure why remoaners are moaning anyway. It makes them a minority, which is a badge I'd have thought they'd love to wear
Probably because of this. Think about it.....

Name:  brexit-chart_zpskohw5ygf.jpg
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Remainers knew what they were voting against, and what they were voting for. Leavers didn't really know what they were voting against, and obviously no clue as to what they were actually voting for. Unless they're clairvoyants...

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Old 16 November 2016, 07:45 PM
  #152  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post

So if you can't believe either side of the media what do you do? Surely go by what you see and hear in your personal life. I could sit for hours going through the map of the areas which voted brexit and remain and cross check it against a map of where migrants settle in the UK. I'd lay good money the brexit vote sits in areas of mass immigration. I'd say the remain vote areas are scarcely populated by migrants. You could say the migrants by pure chance have settled in areas occupied by knuckle dragging racist morons who read the daily mail and then go for a fight down the pub, or you could say that those that see the negatives of mass migration have had just about enough despite the name calling, spin and blanket propaganda to brain wash against an exit from the EU.

I'm not sure why remoaners are moaning anyway. It makes them a minority, which is a badge I'd have thought they'd love to wear

Ok,

I will gloss over whether you mean purely EU immigration and the rather different concept of "immigration"

So do the voting stats backup your argument

Highest voting leave, parts of Wales Sunderland etc, have had low immigration

London, Manchester high migration voted remain

So can you provide the stats

You is this just you "thinking"

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Old 16 November 2016, 07:48 PM
  #153  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
Ok,

I will gloss over whether you mean purely EU immigration and the rather different concept of "immigration"

So do the voting stats backup yup argument

Highest voting leave, parts of Wales Sunderland etc, low immigration

London, Manchester high migration voted remain

So can you provide the stats

You is this just you "thinking"

Bristol, large numbers of immigrants, 60% remain, 40% leave. My ward in north Bristol, very large number of EU immigrants, 80% remain, 20% leave. That's why I'm hacked off.
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Old 16 November 2016, 08:02 PM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
Ok,

I will gloss over whether you mean purely EU immigration and the rather different concept of "immigration"

So do the voting stats backup your argument

Highest voting leave, parts of Wales Sunderland etc, have had low immigration

London, Manchester high migration voted remain

So can you provide the stats

You is this just you "thinking"
UKIP tend to overperform in seats with low migration. They do well in areas with plenty of angry white men!
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Old 16 November 2016, 10:16 PM
  #155  
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Boris is doing better and better with every passing day
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Old 16 November 2016, 11:55 PM
  #156  
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Originally Posted by dpb View Post
Boris is doing better and better with every passing day

Yes, he’s doing absolutely fantastic:

…describing a conversation with Mr Johnson about the UK's preferred Brexit outcome, Mr Calenda, Italy's economic development minister, told Bloomberg TV: "His idea is, 'We want to have access to the common market without giving you access in terms of free circulation of people,' and I think this is wishful thinking.

"His answer was, 'OK, but you are selling a lot of what we call Prosecco in the UK... and you will allow us to do this because you don't want to lose Prosecco exports.

"I said, 'Maybe we're going to lose some Prosecco; you're going to lose some fish and chips exports. The difference is I'm going to lose [exports] to one country, you to 27.'




Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37995606
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Old 17 November 2016, 02:10 PM
  #157  
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Post-Brexit pre-truth:

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews...Q&ocid=UE07DHP

Under the Etias system, countries from outside the EU which do not require a full visa to travel to the bloc, will now pay a five euro (£4.29) fee and complete an online form.

The European Commission says filling out the form should take less than 10 minutes and the Etias permit will be valid for five years and multiple trips.


Not as bad as I thought it would be.
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Old 17 November 2016, 03:23 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Sad Weevil View Post
Remainers knew what they were voting against, and what they were voting for. Leavers didn't really know what they were voting against, and obviously no clue as to what they were actually voting for. Unless they're clairvoyants...
We were (are) in the EU. Everybody that voted knew what it is like to live as part of the EU. Those that voted remain voted to keep things as they were, those that voted leave voted for change.
EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR!
To make a sweeping statement that one set (and you are talking about 17m people) was less informed borders on some weird internal racism, xenophobia and bigotry.
The hypocrisy is mind blowing. That because a vote went in the direction you didn't want it to then the other voters must be idiots.

Labelling 17m people with a tag is a very dangerous road to go down.
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Old 17 November 2016, 03:32 PM
  #159  
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Theres millions that have never know it any other way

So how can they possibly know what theyre missing
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Old 17 November 2016, 03:36 PM
  #160  
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Like trump , they presumably felt brexit would spare them the grim reaper / competition
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Old 17 November 2016, 04:05 PM
  #161  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
Ok,

I will gloss over whether you mean purely EU immigration and the rather different concept of "immigration"

So do the voting stats backup your argument

Highest voting leave, parts of Wales Sunderland etc, have had low immigration

London, Manchester high migration voted remain

So can you provide the stats

You is this just you "thinking"
It's about as well thought out as the cherry picking of your argument, ignoring the parts of the east , hereforshire etc. Feel free to provide the stats, an I quite obviously said it wasn't a fact Although obviously you do have a habit of not reading what someone has actually said.
The flip side could always be the areas in which there is high immigration could vote remain because the majority of voters were actually immigrants themselves.
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Old 17 November 2016, 04:12 PM
  #162  
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1st and 2nd gen immigrants are just as likely as anyone to vote for no more immigration
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Old 17 November 2016, 05:02 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by dpb View Post
1st and 2nd gen immigrants are just as likely as anyone to vote for no more immigration
Got the stats, dpb? I'm asking because that's really interesting.

I reckon they're all either brainwashed plastic Westerners and think that just because they're here, it doesn't mean the new ones should come in. Perhaps they think that the benefits here are there for them to reap, not for the new ones. Or, perhaps they think that they have already crowded the place, so we don't need more here to cramp the place even further. Who knows what they think. Therefore, please provide a bit more info, if you have to hand. If not, no worries. I'll do some digging.

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Old 17 November 2016, 05:12 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
an I quite obviously said it wasn't a fact .

you said

"I'd lay good money the brexit vote sits in areas of mass immigration."

I just asked you to back that statement up with data - but you haven't or can't

so in reality it as, I thought (and said) "just a feeling" on your part
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Old 17 November 2016, 05:15 PM
  #165  
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"Just a feeling" is a symptom of the Post-truth.
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Old 17 November 2016, 05:17 PM
  #166  
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I still like this song very much:


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Old 17 November 2016, 05:26 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by Turbohot View Post
Got the stats, dpb? I'm asking because that's really interesting.

I reckon they're all either brainwashed plastic Westerners and think that just because they're here, it doesn't mean the new ones should come in. Perhaps they think that the benefits here are there for them to reap, not for the new ones. Or, perhaps they think that they have already crowded the place, so we don't need more here to cramp the place even further. Who knows what they think. Therefore, please provide a bit more info, if you have to hand. If not, no worries. I'll do some digging.
just need to survey number mex who vote for trump.
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Old 17 November 2016, 06:04 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
We were (are) in the EU. Everybody that voted knew what it is like to live as part of the EU. Those that voted remain voted to keep things as they were, those that voted leave voted for change.
EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE VOTING FOR!
To make a sweeping statement that one set (and you are talking about 17m people) was less informed borders on some weird internal racism, xenophobia and bigotry.
The hypocrisy is mind blowing. That because a vote went in the direction you didn't want it to then the other voters must be idiots.

Labelling 17m people with a tag is a very dangerous road to go down.
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I haven't labelled anyone, or tagged them, or insinuated anything. Certainly didn't suggest anyone was an idiot. Can you honestly say that we were properly informed about the EU, and how it works? I'm still finding out about it, and I've travelled and worked in Europe for the last 40 years. Understanding 40 years of legislation and treaties takes a lot of research. We were given a lot of false information, from both sides. My point is that voting for completely unknown change is a bit of a gamble. We should have been given more proper information, and more time to understand it. I'm not a great fan of many aspects of the EU as I understand it, but opted to vote remain in the end, as better the devil you know rather than the completely unknown. All we were offered as an alternative to remaining, and still are being offered, seems to be a lot of false promises and wishful thinking, rather than something tangible we can get our heads around.
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Old 17 November 2016, 06:24 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Sad Weevil View Post
I think you misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I haven't labelled anyone, or tagged them, or insinuated anything. Certainly didn't suggest anyone was an idiot. Can you honestly say that we were properly informed about the EU, and how it works? I'm still finding out about it, and I've travelled and worked in Europe for the last 40 years. Understanding 40 years of legislation and treaties takes a lot of research. We were given a lot of false information, from both sides. My point is that voting for completely unknown change is a bit of a gamble. We should have been given more proper information, and more time to understand it. I'm not a great fan of many aspects of the EU as I understand it, but opted to vote remain in the end, as better the devil you know rather than the completely unknown. All we were offered as an alternative to remaining, and still are being offered, seems to be a lot of false promises and wishful thinking, rather than something tangible we can get our heads around.
I agree we weren't informed. I said that a while back.
However your statement was that the remainers were informed and the leavers weren't. It's there as plain as day.
You may see leaving as a gamble. But you need to understand those, including me, saw it as a gamble NOT to leave. Not to have the vote again and to remain in the worlds most stagnant economy (notice how there's no denial of that even here).
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Old 17 November 2016, 06:28 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2 View Post
you said

"I'd lay good money the brexit vote sits in areas of mass immigration."

I just asked you to back that statement up with data - but you haven't or can't

so in reality it as, I thought (and said) "just a feeling" on your part
We could go round in circles for a year. Quite obviously I said "I bet" not it's a fact. I bet is a feeling, just as you have 'a feeling' it's not that accurate.
You backed it up with hand picked 'facts' but left out those that proved you wrong. Are you sure you don't work for the BBC? pmsl.
Come back when you've actually got something worth discussing, not just how you misread things.

Last edited by Kwik; 17 November 2016 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 17 November 2016, 06:34 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by dpb View Post
1st and 2nd gen immigrants are just as likely as anyone to vote for no more immigration
I doubt it. The majority of EU immigrants I know (and it's been a lot over the past 6 years) leave a hell of a lot of family back home when they migrate to the UK. Some leave their wives, kids as well as their siblings and parents. To vote against them being able to join them is something I find very hard to believe.
2nd generation maybe, but still would be surprising.
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Old 17 November 2016, 07:12 PM
  #172  
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Originally Posted by ditchmyster View Post
Interesting that you think I could be somehow removed from my roots.

My parents had 7 kids between them, I'm the youngest, no one GAVE me anything, I worked for it all, at one point I had 3 jobs, day job 7am till 5pm, worked in a pub as a barman 3 nights a week and drove a taxi on weekends to get where I am now, along the way to where I am now I did anything that came my way, I've cleaned toilets, worked on a council tip, been a waiter amongst many other things to get by by any means necessary.

What's wrong with people these days is they're not prepared to do things like that, they want it all on a plate and think they have some sort of god given right to own a house, well it's not like that I'm afraid, you have to work your **** off and give up trips to mcdonalds, the cinema, the playstation, Iphones, big screen tv's, the list goes on and on, also lowering ones expectations, what's wrong with owning a one bed flat , I spent the first 5yrs of my life with 4 of us in one room with a radio and a parafin lamp , then we lived in my dads cousins loft for about 3yrs, and that was like luxury with our own toilet instead of a metal pale to pee in, I still remember my dad emptying it every morning. Then we lived in a flat until I was about 15 when we got a council house.

People think that you just get lucky and win the lottery or someone just rolled up and said "there you go mate, here's a 3 bed detached with a garage" my first house was a wreck in a Very dodgy area bought for £50k and it took me 9yrs to fix it up putting everything I had into it, not spending money on old Subarus and complaining about how **** my life is this one I'm in now I paid £25k for all in and I've spent the last 12yrs working on it pretty much alone, living in a foreign country for the most part away from my family, with all that that entails, it's not easy, but that's my choice.

Simple fact is mate if you want things in life you have to get off your **** and do something about it and give up a LOT of things to get there, I grew up with next to f.u . c k. all so it's nothing new to me and I've never been work shy, but this "Poor Me" society that we live in is the problem.
I could get out the violin and play you a much sadder tune of my upbringing, but as you've done everything better than everyone else there's no much point. Maybe one day realise pretty much everyone has had a **** upbringing.
Stick ya 7am to 5pm hours up ya **** and have 4am-11pm on a six day working week.

Your story seems to be 'bought at the right time' rather than actual hardship.

Try buying a house in an area with a half decent market. 1 bed flats here are the best part of £200k in some areas.
Try earning £400k on your toilet cleaner wages 😂. Even at £8 an hour 50 hours a week, it'll take you 20 years without any outgoings.

All I can gather is that you bought 2 **** houses in 2 **** areas, just lucky for you at the right time.
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Old 17 November 2016, 07:50 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
I doubt it. The majority of EU immigrants I know (and it's been a lot over the past 6 years) leave a hell of a lot of family back home when they migrate to the UK. Some leave their wives, kids as well as their siblings and parents. To vote against them being able to join them is something I find very hard to believe.
2nd generation maybe, but still would be surprising.
I find it hard to believe how ill informed you are.
The migrants you seem to be eluding to didn't even have a vote
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Old 17 November 2016, 07:51 PM
  #174  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
your statement was that the remainers were informed and the leavers weren't. It's there as plain as day.
No, that's not my statement. Read it again. Here you go, I'll break it down for you.
"Remainers knew what they were voting against" (unknown change) "and what they were voting for" (no change). Leavers didn't really know what they were voting against (because they were lied to - not their fault) "and obviously no clue as to what they were actually voting for" (no-one did, because we weren't offered a solid alternative, and still haven't been). Now you can read into that what you like, but I am not saying that remainers were better informed, or more intelligent or something. If it came across like that, then I'd better try and express myself better. The key point I'm trying to make is that voting for change, without knowing anything about what this change will be, is not necessarily a good idea. Especially as it will affect future generations.
As far as immigration goes, there was far more the government could have done to lessen the negative effects of it, within the existing EU rules. For some reason, they chose not to, unlike other countries in the EU.
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Old 18 November 2016, 06:02 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Martin2005 View Post
I find it hard to believe how ill informed you are.
The migrants you seem to be eluding to didn't even have a vote
A) it's called citizenship
B) I was actually quoting someone else
C) My original statement was that they may vote remain if they were an immigrant at 'some point'.

So who's Ill informed 😀😂
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Old 18 November 2016, 06:07 AM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by Sad Weevil View Post
No, that's not my statement. Read it again. Here you go, I'll break it down for you.
"Remainers knew what they were voting against" (unknown change) "and what they were voting for" (no change). Leavers didn't really know what they were voting against (because they were lied to - not their fault) "and obviously no clue as to what they were actually voting for" (no-one did, because we weren't offered a solid alternative, and still haven't been). Now you can read into that what you like, but I am not saying that remainers were better informed, or more intelligent or something. If it came across like that, then I'd better try and express myself better. The key point I'm trying to make is that voting for change, without knowing anything about what this change will be, is not necessarily a good idea. Especially as it will affect future generations.
As far as immigration goes, there was far more the government could have done to lessen the negative effects of it, within the existing EU rules. For some reason, they chose not to, unlike other countries in the EU.
Ok, give me factual evidence the leave campaign lied (please use the farage video! &#128512.
Then spend half hour searching for lies from the remain camp.
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Old 18 November 2016, 07:12 AM
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
I could get out the violin and play you a much sadder tune of my upbringing, but as you've done everything better than everyone else there's no much point. Maybe one day realise pretty much everyone has had a **** upbringing.
Stick ya 7am to 5pm hours up ya **** and have 4am-11pm on a six day working week.

Your story seems to be 'bought at the right time' rather than actual hardship.

Try buying a house in an area with a half decent market. 1 bed flats here are the best part of £200k in some areas.
Try earning £400k on your toilet cleaner wages ��. Even at £8 an hour 50 hours a week, it'll take you 20 years without any outgoings.

All I can gather is that you bought 2 **** houses in 2 **** areas, just lucky for you at the right time.
People used to say to me that I had a real chip on my shoulder, I couldn't see it at the time but looking back they were right, you have one too but there's a difference between you and me in that I used my chip to my advantage, you just seem to sit about complaining, I have met many people like you over the years, you're like a big black hole sucking the life out of yourself and everything and one you come into contact with, spreading negativity, even over the internet I can feel it.

You're right though I have done a lot of things, not necessarily better than everyone else but at least I tried if I wasn't happy with something in my life I did something about it I couldn't afford to live in the fancy areas so I went to where I could afford it and made it happen by doing what needed to be done, a lesson you may want to learn from your co workers that leave their families in search of a better life for their offspring, Like I said previously you're the sort that thinks because he's a white man born in the UK that you have some sort of right to be given everything in life and that it shouldn't be so hard to get ahead wake up and smell the coffee pal, Life is difficult, it won't get better by complaining about it.

We are all the masters of our own destiny.

FYI it has taken me about 20yrs to get here and I still have a fair way to go, also the harder I try and the more I do for myself and my family the luckier I get. Strange that.

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Old 18 November 2016, 08:26 AM
  #178  
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Originally Posted by Kwik View Post
Ok, give me factual evidence the leave campaign lied (please use the farage video! &#128512.
Then spend half hour searching for lies from the remain camp.
Bored with all the leavers banging on. You won, get over it.
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Old 18 November 2016, 08:32 AM
  #179  
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Apparently Nige spent Eu money convincing thanet to leave , (unsuccessfully)
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Old 18 November 2016, 09:46 AM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by ditchmyster View Post
People used to say to me that I had a real chip on my shoulder, I couldn't see it at the time but looking back they were right, you have one too but there's a difference between you and me in that I used my chip to my advantage, you just seem to sit about complaining, I have met many people like you over the years, you're like a big black hole sucking the life out of yourself and everything and one you come into contact with, spreading negativity, even over the internet I can feel it.

You're right though I have done a lot of things, not necessarily better than everyone else but at least I tried if I wasn't happy with something in my life I did something about it I couldn't afford to live in the fancy areas so I went to where I could afford it and made it happen by doing what needed to be done, a lesson you may want to learn from your co workers that leave their families in search of a better life for their offspring, Like I said previously you're the sort that thinks because he's a white man born in the UK that you have some sort of right to be given everything in life and that it shouldn't be so hard to get ahead wake up and smell the coffee pal, Life is difficult, it won't get better by complaining about it.

We are all the masters of our own destiny.

FYI it has taken me about 20yrs to get here and I still have a fair way to go, also the harder I try and the more I do for myself and my family the luckier I get. Strange that.

yes, its the whinging blame culture we have

always someone else's fault for people **** lives
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