zip106

And their reason for choosing it - because it's cheaper.

Autocar really aren't the force they once were.

Matteeboy

It's not just that; it's the handling, the overall package.

A chap I know fairly well sold his M3 two months after he got it; couldn't stand the noise or the handling. I think they're great but but not for everyone.

Renting one for a bit should be fun though

zip106

As much as I like the look and thought of a small hatch/coupe, we've just outgrown them as a family.


It's strange though, that the M4 appears to be getting somewhat slated in group tests, yet the M3 getting lots of praise.

Looking forward to 3 years with it and being able to chuck it back when it's depreciated massively!
(I also think my Spyder won't be getting used much..)

Matteeboy

I much prefer the M3 to the M4 too. I also preferred the saloon E90 to the Coupe E92.

I think you'll appreciate the NA power delivery and proper steering of the Spyder a lot. A great weekend car compared to the more "do it all" M3.

It'll feel slow though

Matteeboy

Ted; just seen this. Great spec, good price California.

http://www.vwcaliforniaclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=7977&p=70142#p70142

Littleted

Ahh thanks...I'll have a look

Vtec-Abuser

Interesting read this - if not a bit childish at times.

For me they are all pretty close in stock form once up and rolling, but after having driven them all extensively and also strapped all 3 to my Vbox, I would have them in this order -

A45
M135i
S3

This is rolling performance though and if we are taking 'off the line' comparisons then the BM is always going to lose initially. 0-60 times have never really bothered me though to be honest as it is mostly based around the launch. But I can't see how a stock M135i is ever going to beat a stock S3 0-60 when running the same gearbox (manual vs manual / auto vs S-tronic). I don't care what the manufacturers figures say.
My previous car was a 135i Coupe DCT N55 and with software that would run a 12.7 at Pod. Stock S3's are running that time and although the S3's terminal speed is a fair bit slower, it just shows you how long it would take the BM to catch it (around 110mph) after losing out off the line.

Me and a group of mates are heading to Santa Pod this Sunday to have a good old tear up and I think the results should add some light to this debate. If you are free Matteeboy get yourself down there? There is also a A45 vs Golf R day on the 4th Oct if you fancy that. There will a whole manner of stock and tuned cars attending, so you could happily pitch the M135i against some stock cars to see how it fairs..

Attending this Sunday will be -

A45 with RENNtech Stage 1
M135 Auto with JB4 (EWG/FF Harness + Intake)
8v S3 SB S-Tronic with TMC Tuning box and full TB exhaust

I dare say there will be a bit of fun on the way down too and I imagine them to all be pretty close once rolling. The S3 and A45 will obviously have the advantage time wise at the track, but I predict that the terminal speeds will be pretty close.

Place your bets..

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Welcome back Walt!

Matteeboy

Interesting stuff - sadly The Pod is about five hours drive from me!
Keen to hear how the M135i fares - there's a vid of one doing 60 in 4.4s and 100 in 10.3s using launch control so they are definitely nippy. Don't forget that it has a fair bhp and torque advantage over an S3 as well as grippier tyres. Also don't forget how many incredibly quick cars are RWD too...

Vtec-Abuser

Don't disagree with that mate, but they don't specialise in their 0-30 times. It's just when they are up and rolling they then start to rip!
These times you are referring to - is it from this video?


If so then the car definitely gets an awesome start no doubt and his 0-60 would be well in the 4's. Only problem is it appears that this is recorded on a stopwatch and from his speedo. Is this correct? If so then you may as well stick a wet finger in the air IMO.
I have seen M135i's crack the 10's (10.9) 0-100 in the RS3 vs M135i Chris Harris vid. But that was recorded properly (Vbox) and was driver only. Can't ever see a stock car getting those figures when 2 up, sorry.
I thought these times you were throwing into the conversation were some sort of GPS recorded times, not some youtube vid vs the stopwatch!?!?!

Matteeboy

The guy has proper timing kit; he does the Pod quite regularly.

CH's time was pre launch control.

Autocar got 4.6s to 60 in a much slower manual.

However I wouldn't say it IS a 10.3s to 100 car - I'd say sub 11s which has been proven many times. 4.4 to 60 isn't unrealistic at all though.

The S3 is definitely quick and I'm sure it leaps off the line to 30 but with less power, 10bhp/tonne less, less torque and what it has comes in much later (M135i peaks at 1300rpm), it's a slightly slower car on anything but soaking wet roads. And it uses an unpleasant engine. And a hateful DSG box. And in Evo's track test, the M135i was markedly quicker.

I saw one stickered up at a dealer last week - £42k - :loll:

Vtec-Abuser

I would like to see what he used to time it, as I just don't buy it mate, sorry. Especially 2 up! Plus when I read the thread on BabyBMW that this chap posted about his vid, I never remember seeing anything about using a Vbox or similar.
We have tested my mates M135i many times stock and tuned and his times pretty much replicated CH's times when stock (and that was 1 up). Also launch control doesn't necessarily make it any quicker. My mate has tried both LC and just holding the car on the brake and building the revs up before releasing. He found the later to be the best method.
Same can be said for the chap who ran 13.0 in his stock car. He found his best results were from not using LC (see BabyBMW).

Oh and I don't want to burst your bubble mate, but the car used by Autocar on their road test that recorded a 4.6 0-60 time, was actually an auto ;-)

Rather than chucking claimed figures about the M135i on to every thread that is posted on here. Why don't you take the car to some of the events like 1/4 mile, 30-130, Vmax etc and see for yourself how the car compares with others mate? It's much more fun and you will see that magazine tests don't always reflect the 'real world'. Or even better, take the M lite for a hoon and hang it's **** end out round some twisty roads. That's the real advantage it has over other hot hatches and one thing I miss about my 135i.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Mattie it's LEO RS/Mitchy260 posting. Or as he's known here, Walter Mitty.

LEO-RS

Maz, that's twice now in this thread, are you for real? Do you even know what a Walt is

I'm the chap with videos, vbox charts and displays, 1/4m time slips, dedicated threads and enough evidence to back everything up with that guys like yourself go running into your corners making yourselves look like prized plums arguing black is white when presented with the evidence.

With 14k+ posts to your name, you really should know better, a little bit of research would lead you to the fact that I'm a Scotsman and Vtec Abuser and many other forum names he is known as hails from the East Midlands. We have both been around the German car tuning scene in the UK for many years now, we know each other, are well known and we both go to regular race days and meet others (You should give it a go instead of hiding behind your keyboard ) . Yep, you guessed it, we are 2 different people that live about 400m apart

Nothing he has said there is untoward, M135i's are quick motors on the move but they are not suited for the dragstrip being rear wheel drive. If you knew anything about cars Maz, you would realise that to get a rear wheel drive car to launch well, you need perfect conditions and a top driver otherwise the car just bogs down and slides off the line. As said, M135i's are doing 14sec 1/4 mile times at Crail, a million miles away from S3's/Golf R's and A45's. In this game, evidence is everything...

http://www.crailraceway.co.uk/showdr...ate=2014-03-30

Give me an analysis on those times Maz Just to help you along, the 107mph terminal speeds are telling us the car is quick and has the power, (Needs 300bhp+ to do 107mph) In addition, the 2.4-2.8 60ft times tell us the car was seriously struggling for grip and/or being launched poorly. Now if you use the same website and go look at S3's/A45's/Golf R's, you will see the 60ft times below 2.0 and the terminal speeds around the same but the times much quicker. That's how much advantage there is in the 4wd launch even though all cars cross the line at roughly the same mph, drag racing, try reading up on it

Matteeboy

VTEC; yep they used that slower manual(as I said!) so the auto would/should be quicker.

Anyway fair comments though and I never quote Joe's times as fact. It's a mid 4s to 60, sub 11s to 100 car; that's plenty nippy enough for me.

Sadly Cornwall is absolute turd for any track work; we have naff all here. But out of season, our roads are pretty awesome. Well apart from this morning when some tit in a huge tractor almost hit me and I clipped a low wall trying to avoid getting flattened.... Nice little scrape at the bottom of the rear bumper/arch - ARRRGHHHHH!!!!!

Me and a mate (who has just bought an E46 M3 cab) are plotting a Castle Combe or Thruxton day soon.

And aside from niggling about fractions of a second, it's great we have this choice of "hyper" hatches to choose from; all awesome fun and b4stard quick with room for kids and the shopping too!

LEO-RS

Exact same engine in the 235i Mattee?

What are they tuning upto and are they having the same problems as Audi/Mercedes with warranty flags?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Hiding behind a keyboard? That's rich coming from you after you were metaphorically butt f'cked by David (Trout) for doing just that. It's funny that your alter ego failed to respond and yet you were quick to fire in. It's also uncanny that your literacy, sentence construction and writing style mimics that of 'your mate'. It's also strange he appears on a thread to back you up having had a two year sabbatical previously. Nice try Walt!

Vtec-Abuser

Oops, edit alert on my part.. I meant to say the Autocar M135i test was done in an auto, NOT MANUAL.. Doh! I remember the test well mate as I was looking at one at the time of changing the 135i coupe.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/m135i

However, your last comment is probably the most sensible one I think I have seen you post on here.. All great cars for different people tastes..

As for Maz - Yes you're right, I've been rumbled... Leo is my alter ego

LEO-RS

Dearo dearo dear Myself and Trout had banter with reference to my TTRS vs his GT3RS, it was always friendly with myself being labelled a hairdresser and him as someone going through a midlife crisis (Tacky stickers, loud wheels on a beautiful car) It never once got heated nor was ''I butt f*cked'' having proven how quick my TTRS accelerated and then out accelerated his

If you weren't so stupid, you would surely backtrack through posts of vtec abusers to determine that we are not the same people, he owned the same M135i when I had my TTRS, the only BMW I have owned is an M5, he has been here 10+yrs but yet this is the first accusation that we are the same people

Seriously buddy, you need to lay off the shandy's

Ben, Ill come down to Pod on Sunday mate and race you in your A45, either that or you travel the 500m north and we will do it at Crail

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Was that deliberate?

Vtec-Abuser

Edited just for the grammar police

Vtec-Abuser

But you can't race yourself, surely?

Matteeboy

Same engine but the M235i has about 5bhp more (but is very slightly heavier) due to a slight tune up.

Stock bhp is 320bhp for mine but a fair few seem to have shown 340ish once run in (TBH that's about third hand information).

A JB4 gets you to 360/370ish but a fair leaps in torque from peak 335ish lbs-ft to over 400. I posted a vid of some utterly nutty tuned up South American example that was way over 400bhp - that's VERY quick.

For the tuners the usual options are a JB4 (Birds, DMS and others do their own maps), aftermarket LSD (Birds, about £1600, I'm tempted), firmer shocks (a few options but MUCH harder to do if you have Adaptive suspension - which I haven't), lighter alloys. The brakes are very strong (made by Brembo) so rarely upgraded - bizarrely they are bigger (345mm) at the back than the front (340mm).

The N55 engine is a tough one to crack so the N54 (in the old 135i and the 1M) is a better choice for hardcore tuners at the moment.


It's not all perfect - you need to handle with care near/on the limit (I've had a few "waaa hey" moments), the steering is direct but naff all feedback but generally it's a pretty darn good package and great for really long trips as well as blasts - something which the S3 is probably also good at but which the A45 and Golf R are just too firm (and the Megane 265).

Wifey got 37mpg back from London yesterday too and she doesn't hang about.

Didn't VTEC have a 135i (the earlier shape - not the M135i)?

Vtec-Abuser

Yes I did...

Oops sorry, I mean he did... I mean I did, he did, I did. Oh **** knows, I'm confused now. Can't remember which member I am logged in as

LEO-RS

Not going to argue that a highly stung 2.0T engine is anywhere near as good as the 3.0t engine in the BMW, of course, they're not. Mercedes have to boost their turbo at 1.8bar to get to that 360hp and as posted in your video, the S3/Golf R at 300hp are not as punchy and feel a little underpowered in comparison even though they do post quick standard car times due to their launch and grip capabilities, the transmission flatters the times, not the engines. Of course, we should really compare RS vs M vs AMG, the 2.5T Audi engine is a peach too Fuel economy wise, yes, staggering really, all on a cruise can get close to or even break 40mpg, how times have moved on from the old Impreza/Evo days of 18mpg

Matteeboy

Yes that five pot engine is a gem - I think it only comes with the Q3 RS now?

Boyakasha

iTrader: (2)

Hi LEO-RS, how's it going bud?

I've got another little motor for you to try and beat. You gave the GT-R a good try in Your TT-RS, so I thought I'd lower the stakes for you

Good to see you're still winding folk up, not seen you on the GT-R forum for a while though

PS we definitely need to get the Big Race sorted for next year, I'll get Bainsey on the case.

Marc

Littleted

Is that your a45 boo?

Boyakasha

iTrader: (2)

It sure is, loving it. Not hit 1000 miles yet so still running it in but it's a cracking motor.

LEO-RS

Hey there Marc, nice collection you have there, I'm good ta

The A45's are cracking little cars. I was so close to getting a CLA45 a few weeks back but put that on hold until details of the new RS3 are released. As for the big race, I've just managed to crack an 11.90 in a new model S3, so you better bring your GTR if you want to walk away with the trophy again