MeisterR

A common question many owner ask: How does MeisterR coilovers compare to other brands?
As coilovers are only part of a car's suspensions, and there are many other variable involved; it is often a difficult questions to answer.

So I want to bring up a very interesting "test" that we will be doing.

Here in Houston USA, I meet a driver at a local SCCA Auto Solo event name Lucio D'lsep.
Lucio was an Italian racing driver back in the early 2000's, and have decided to get back into competitive motorsport after being absent for over 12 years.
Here is a picture of him in the former glory days racing with Osella in Rechberg (Austria) back in 2002.



Lucio's current car is a Honda S2000 daily driver that runs in the SCCA Auto Solo STR (Street Touring Roadster) Class.
The good thing about the STR class is that the rules limit modification you can do as well as tyres you can use, thus creating a class that daily street driven cars can compete with each other.





Suspension Issue

Speaking to Lucio, he have been having issue with his car.
He is using an off the shelf Bilstein PSS9 adjustable coilovers, and he just couldn't get the suspension to work with the car.
The tyres just couldn't find grip and the body motion does not feel controlled no matter how he adjust the coilovers, so he is struggling to keep speed through the corners as well as keeping the car on the racing line.
The result is lost traction as well as hitting cones, and this put a time penalty on his result.

MeisterR Suspensions Change

I thought this will make a great opportunity to test the MeisterR coilovers against Bilstein, and will keep things fair as we can get a qualitative (how the suspensions feel on the road) and a quantitative (Lap time) feedback on the same road car driven by the same driver in the same competitive event.

So we got a set of off the shelf MeisterR Zeta-R coilovers, and swap the Bilstein PSS9 coilovers out.



Initial Feedback on MeisterR coilovers

The initial feedback by Lucio is positive after a few days of street use.
Here is what Lucio have to say:

Both the Bilstein and the MeisterR look like serious tools and not toys.
The MeisterR out of the box are ready for the installation, the light weight aluminium top mount included with the MeisterR is the main difference when compared to the Bilstein that need to reuse the top mount from the original Honda suspension.

After 12 years out of racing it’s the first time that I see a suspension with springs coil adjustments independent from ride height adjustments.
This is a great improvement and it mean no more compromise when adjusting the ride height.

Compare to the Bilstein, the MeisterR damping response and compliancy on the irregularity of the street gives you confidence.
You are able to feel the grip and trust the car/tyres, and know that when the grip finish there will be space for correction.
The accuracy of the steering is what impressed me the most with the MeisterR coilovers.
The front of the car is on track followed by the rear even with the non-linear power curve of the S2000 engine trying to mess up your approach to the apex.

It is also more comfortable on softer damping setting.
If your potential girlfriend has already experienced sport cars, she will not complain about comfort as softer damping setting is not so far from the original equipment.

SCCA Result with Bilstein

The last round of the SCCA Auto Solo, Lucio finished in 7th place with 13 competitors total.
While the lap time of 51.297 isn't slow, the additional penalties from hitting cones brought his result down to 7th place.



The next round of the SCCA Auto Solo will be this Saturday 2nd of August, 2015.
We will get the S2000 to the track and hope we finish on the podium, because when you race you race to win.

We will report back in a few days time.

MeisterR

Just to say I got the date wrong, the auto solo event is actually tomorrow.
So i should have some result once everything are updated with SCCA.

One thing I do want to mention is that DO NOT TAKE THE RESULT TOO SERIOUSLY…

It is meant to be a light hearted fun exercise, I am not out to prove MeisterR or Bilstein.
There are still a lot of variable, and it is still subjective one way or the other.

Some feel that I was out with an agenda, and really that wasn't the case.
I would of wait until the result are in before I post anything if it was to ensure MeisterR is better.

I post this up before the event, and will post the result whatever it is
MeisterR being faster or slower makes no difference to me.

That is it, I will report back once result are in.

Jerrick

XPCobra

What were the results?

MeisterR

The result are in, and it was very close racing!





Lucio finish the day 3rd in the SCCA STR class the fastest time of 53.244, only 0.012 second behind 2nd place!
The first 3 place in the class was separated by less than 0.2 seconds...

Lucio time also made him the fastest S2000 of the day, with a 13th overall in raw time.
Pretty respectable considering he is only 6.5 seconds behind the 1st place, and that was a fully prep Racing Go-Kart.

Another interesting thing was we had 2 driver that day using the same car.
Lucio was number 14 who finish 3rd, and Landon who was number 114 and finished 4th.
It was interesting to see as both driver have different preference, so both found the best suspension setting that suit their driving style.
They also tired out each other suspension setting to give a comparison but it was Lucio who was just a little faster in the end.
The next car down is almost 2 seconds behind, so the front runner are fast compare to the rest of the group.






Objective Result

As Auto Solo track layout changes at every event, it is difficult to compare raw track time.
The best way to compare is to use average time between driver who attended both event, so that is what we will do.

In SCCA, each time you hit a cone you add 2 seconds penalty to your total time.
Lucio time in round 7 was 55.297 after a 4 second penalty, so his raw track time was 51.297 which would of place him in 3rd place in the STR class.
We will use the raw time for comparison.

Round 7 (raw time 51.297)
STR class average: 53.76 (beat average by 2.46 seconds).
Total average: 56.65 (beat average by 5.35 seconds).

Round 8 (raw time 53.244)
STR class average: 55.90 (beat average by 2.65 seconds).
Total average: 58.93 (beat average by 5.68 seconds).

Difference between round 7 and round 8
STR class average: 0.19 seconds improvement
Total Average: 0.33 seconds improvement

So all in all, an improvement but wasn’t catastrophic.
The biggest difference was getting 3 clean runs in round 8 vs no clean run in round 7.

The clean run make a huge difference to the final result.
Lucio was ranked 13th overall in round 8, but ranked 65th overall in round 7 just to show the difference.


Subjective Feedback

Getting feedback from Lucio after the end of the day, here is what he have to say:

The car was tested on the street and the 90% of the set up was clean, the remaining 10% set up are based on driver preference.
It was cool to see how Landon and I were able to select different set up to suit our driving preference on the same car, and really show how much difference a few clicks on the damper made to the overall dynamic.

My driving is pretty aggressive and I was able to maintain the car ON the track with just one penalty on the first run Vs the previous race where I was not able to obtain a clean run in the all day.

Adjusting the suspension to a softer setting for the 45 minute drive home was also impressive.
I was not used to have a comfortable feeling in this car and at one point I visually checked the tire's pressure to see if everything was fine.
The best proof was my 16 years old daughter in the passenger seat who does not have a lot of experience in sport car felt comfortable enough to take a nap during the driving home.

Overall, it has been a big improvement and I am please with the result.


Conclusion

So that is it, an improvement but not a huge amount as expected.
Auto-Solo only give about 60 seconds worth of track time and speed aren’t fast, so a lot of importance are place on the tyres and how much traction it can generate.

The S2000 never made it out of second gear on the day, and this type of tight track favour the lighter MX5 / Miata.
To be able to keep up with cars that is 500lbs lighter is quite an impressive achievement given the fact that there aren’t enough “straight” to allow the S2000 to use it’s upper power band.

I hope this was an interesting read, and we certainly enjoy the experience working with the driver.
3rd place finish aren’t back, but we will hope to see 1st place in the future.

Jerrick

Tidgy

Hate to say it but US are not UK roads, but interesting read none the less

MeisterR

We have been doing UK roads for years, it is US roads that are new to us.

To be honest the US roads aren't bumpy like the UK country back roads.
What it does have problem with is the "joint" when driving on their motorway... it is quite harsh when you are going over them at 70mph.
And they have lots of joint, and the road are very long as everything is quite far away in Houston.

So if you drive on a hard suspension for a hour long journey, it does get "painful" pretty quickly.

Jerrick

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Have you sorted the knocking rear shock that folk were complaining about?
IMO you can't compare miester r with pss9s

MeisterR

I haven't heard of any knocking issue in the rear since we went to the press steel rear top mount.
If there is an issue let me know, because I am always happy to help.

The issue with the Impreza is that the way the rear suspension are designed, the rear wind screen become a perfect amplifier for noise.
So any suspension noise will go straight into the cabin and made worst than it is.
But this is more of a problem for the GD.

To be honest, this isn't really a comparison as there are just many variable.
We did just as well on the track, and the driver is happier with MeisterR, but then that is a subjective view.

Like I said, this is just a light hearted fun exercise, don't take it too seriously.

Jerrick

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Ok thanks Jerick, I would however like to see a comparison with the gt1 against the big player suspension

Tidgy

If you wanna send me a free set to try on my type r then I don't mind giving feedback lol

MeisterR

To be honest, a "objective" test in suspension is going to be difficult.
But if you look at an "all purposes" car, then Steven Peeler's EVO6 running the GT1 from last year MLR Sprint Series would be a good one to look at.

It is a road driven sprint car, running in the most competitive class (Class B).
As the turbo size were limited, you don't get a giant difference between power output in the class.
What that means is suspension, tyres, and setting are the thing that make or break the time.

We finish the championship in 2nd place (tie for point for 1st place, but 2nd place due to having less 1st place finish).
Within that class, cars are running KW, Ohlins, Nitron, and even JRZ...

I am not saying that proves anything, but MeisterR can certainly hang with the big names within a competitive class.


Well, can't do free set.
But we could provide 0% finance for 12 months with £0 deposit if that helps.

Jerrick

Tidgy

darn, was worth a try

MeisterR

Well, you don't try you don't get... so we can respect that.

Jerrick

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Have you made any competition spec stuff for the gc8 platform?

MeisterR

We can as the GT1 can be custom build specifically for competition use.
We already designed valving with high cracking pressure specifically for us with semi-slick / slick tyres, with great success in competitive event such as the MLR Sprint Series.

Jerrick

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

I know peeler had your suspension on the 6.
Who else in the sprint series is running your components? If you don't mind me asking if course

joe v3sti

iTrader: (8)

Also what is the rep on gt1 for the gc8

MeisterR

As far as I can remember in the MLR Sprint, the only person using the MeisterR GT1 was Peeler.
So for him to come 2nd in the championship (tie for 1st place in points too! ), among a sea of 30+ cars in Class B using Ohlins, Nitron, JRZ... not bad result at all.

I don't think we have sold any GT1 for GC8 yet because we have been improving things over the past year.
It is only as of a few months ago that the GT1 are complete as we have ran out of things to improve.

You know how it is, as an engineer you just always see a little bit that you an do better, so you do

Jerrick

MeisterR

Just an update on this as we just had Race 9.

I am happy to report that Lucio have taken 1st place in Class.



There is 12 race in the season, so we will see how the end of the year go.
The last race will be on December 6th.
We hope for a podium finish in the championship, will see how it goes.

Jerrick

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

I'm actually starting to think these are doing well suspension wise. It's always to be weary of a newcomer of suspension to subarus but on the paper seems to be doing well.

What's prices of the gt1 for gc8 jerreick and also zeta s or whatever you call it?
Is it just 2 types of coilovers you do?

MeisterR

We have been doing loads racing wise, mostly just to help competitors doing what they love doing.
We took 2nd and 3rd place in the British Drift Championship this year, and we only sponsor 2 car in the pro-class within a sea of competitors.
We help secure 1st place in the Japanese Drag Championship and also set a new 4WD ET record of 8.369 with a custom made drag GT1 suspension.
So 2015 have been good to us.

The GT1 is £1650, and these are custom build unit design to compete with the like of Ohlins DFV.
As for the Zeta-R, RRP is £769 and we are doing a group buy at the moment while stock last.

Jerrick

Dazzles Fiesti

iTrader: (2)

Jerrick

Do you have any suppliers in Canada?

Many thanks

Dazzle

IanG1983

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking forward to getting mine from the group buy and will give you some feedback from the Nurburgring when I'm there next

MeisterR

Sorry Dazzle, we don't have any supplier in Canada at the moment.
But we are currently starting up MeisterR USA, so we will have a head office closer to you in the next few months.

Enjoy, got plenty of customers who been to Nurburgring and back, so far I haven't got any complains.

Jerrick

MeisterR

Just to post up the latest update on this.

Lucio have finish 1st place at Race 10 also.



As you notice, there is only 3 competitors this round because they are the main challenger to the championship.
With this 1st place finish, Lucio will lead into Race 11 and Race 12 on December 5th/6th at the Royal Purple Raceway in Baytown, Houston.

However, it will be very tight as there is less then single place worth of points between the 3 competitors.
So who ever do the best in the next two rounds will take home the championship trophy as no one has a big lead at all.

We will report back with some news, hopefully it will be gold but there are no guarantee in racing.

Jerrick

Iain FSTI

iTrader: (1)

Meister R can you show us a pic of the top mounts used with your suspension and the Bilsteins?
Was there a difference between the two?
I don't want to **** on your chips or anything, but that component alone especially if replacing a tired old one, would have a fair benefit on handling and steering accuracy.
I put some refurbed PSS10's on my M3 this year and was very pleased indeed with the outcome but the process also involved replacing front and rear top mounts with considerably better (spec and condition) versions, and I wouldn't just attribute the improvement to replacing the dampers and springs by themselves, as the top mounts have to take some of the credit.
All that said if your top mounts and the old ones look identical, I'll take it all back
Cheers
Iain

MeisterR

Not at all, as I said it wasn't a scientific test, just a bit of fun.
We use a spherical bearing top mount on ours, the PSS9 uses the OEM rubber top mount.
The S2000 is a double wishbone suspension, so camber / caster are not affected via the top mount and the shaft are held in the standard position.

You can't compare that to the MacPherson Strut setup like the M3 where the top mount have a huge effect on the suspension geometry.
M3 especially benefit from a lot of caster, and that is where offset top mount can really make a huge difference on those car.

Either way, the season is over now and I'll do an official update later.
But Lucio done 5 races since the swap to the MeisterR coilovers.
The result are: 3rd, 1st, 1st, 1st, and 2nd.
Yes, we did win the Houston STR class championship.

Jerrick