MeisterR

MeisterR has*been working over the past 2 years on the development of an amazing British engineered suspension.*
We didn't want to make something simply different, we wanted to make the best and compete with the best offerings on the market.*
We have finally arrived at the finish line and the new MeisterR GT1 Coilovers are finally ready.

The GT1 coilovers are developed*in collaboration between MeisterR and Black Art Design (BAD).*
BAD is a well known British suspension company responsible for many race winning cars.*
Their portfolio range from the DAX Rush, Noble, Classic Austin Martin, to the fastest privateer Ford RS200 in the Colorado Pike Peaks.

The GT1 coilovers have many custom in-house made parts that are truly cutting edge engineering.*
As there are so many technical features on the GT1 coilovers, we are still compiling a presentation that can show off these features in an easy to read format.

But here is a little teaser video I made up for the GT1 Coilovers




The GT1 coilovers retail at £1650, and we want to provide a few benefits to members that may be interested.

Here are a few points we are thinking about and we want the community's opinion.

1. *Life-Time Warranty on hydraulic function to the original purchaser: *
That is right, the GT1 damper is built to such a high specification that technically speaking, unless it is physically damaged (such as a bent / scored shaft), it will continue to operate forever… even under racing condition.*
However, parts exposed to the element will wear over time so you really can't give a lifetime warranty on those, but the actual damper itself will continue to function for years, we are that confident of the quality.

The warranty means, if you go to Nurburg every weekend and a damper failed after a run 3 years later, we will rebuild it for free.*
If you crash into the Armco and bent the rod, or run into the gravel and scored the damper shaft causing the damper to fail, then it isn't cover.*Sounds pretty fair?

2. *Upgrade from Zeta-S / Zeta-R / Europa to GT1 Coilovers:
We feel that some MeisterR owners would want to upgrade to the GT1 in the future.*So we want to make an upgrade program for those who have purchased the Zeta-S / Zeta-R / Europa coilovers.*
Our initial thought is, you can purchase a set of GT1 coilovers, and after installation you can send back your old set of MeisterR coilovers and we will refund you £350 (Around 50% of the purchase price) for your old set.*
That way you get a brand new set GT1 in your hand, and there is no need to try to sell the old set of suspensions or wait for a rebuild.

So what do you think of the life-time warranty and the upgrade option with the GT1 Coilovers?
Do you have anything else that you feel could be beneficial to the end user.

We are always open to opinions and suggestions.

Jerrick / Edwin

sweden

iTrader: (2)

Be interesting to see how they compare to bilsteins as its the same price range

Good idea for upgrading customers, what sort of spare parts will be available (just in case dmg at the track )

MeisterR

To be honest, I am really confident that the GT1 is the best suspension you can buy at it's price range.

While the outside of the GT1 look similar to the Zeta-R, the internal is completely different.

I'll try to name a few parts, but there are quite a lot:
1. GT1 Piston: Precision CNC Aluminium: there are quite a few feature in this piston, I will work put up the details later.
2. GT1 bump stop: Progressive rate bump stop design to come into play progressively to aid comfort.
3. GT1 damper shaft seal: CNC made in house using Ultrasound tested Austrian Polyurethane.
A normal damper will never exceed 40 bars of pressure, our shaft seal is rated to 400 bars.

This damper shaft seal is one main reason we offer a Life-time Warranty, because it is actually that good.
Like I said before, the life-time warranty is for the life of the original purchaser, but no limitation on time or miles.
The long as nothing is physically damaged such as a bent rod or a score shaft, we will rebuild it free of charge if oil leak because the shaft seal fail.

BAD have use this seal in Rally Cars that come back for a rebuild 5 years later and the seal look new.
This isn't something that can be bought off the shelf, that is why we make them in house.

We haven't done any back to back testing against the Zeta-R (also it is something difficult to quantify).
But we know the GT1 will out last the Zeta (or any other suspension for that matter) pretty much in a test of durability.

The GT1 use an ultra high heat index hydraulic oil from Millers, what that mean is the GT1 will not suffer fade issue no matter how hard you push the suspensions (BAD use the same oil in Rally cars).

All the internal of the GT1 are made in the UK (most of the bits are CNC machined… in Essex), and assemble at BAD headquarter in Essex also.

All in all, we done everything possible to improve the suspension performance and durability.
A lot of the engineering are bespoke and way above what are normally seen in the suspensions world; we want the GT1 to be a suspension that will set a new bench mark.

Jerrick

sweden

iTrader: (2)

Will there be an option to have the outside/springs refurbed, of course they would get a wipe down at the weekend but not the care of say a rally car.

MeisterR

Springs is an exposed moving metal part, so they will wear and have surface corrosion over time.
This will not affect the springs performance in any way.
If you want to refurb the springs, new springs are only £30 each, so it is probably cheaper to get new springs in 2-3 years time should you want to refresh.

As the the external, there really isn't much to refurb.
We even custom made a coilover cover to protect any moving part (i.e. the piston shaft / seal), so you shouldn't have any issue at all.

Jerrick

MeisterR

A quick view of the first few set of the new MeisterR GT1 coilovers.

Mitsubishi Evolution X [ CZ4A ] ( Also available for EVO4 CP9A to EVO9 CT9A )




Toyota GT86[ ZN6 ] / Subaru BRZ [ ZC6 ]




Nissan Skyline R32 GTR [ BNR32 ] ( Also available for R33 / R34 / R35 )




We will have more technical details for release soon.

Jerrick

MeisterR

We are just back from displaying at Autosport International with the MeisterR GT1 as it's centre piece.
Here is a few photo of our "little" stand.







A lot of interests from many owners regarding the GT1 coilovers.
Many have heard about the GT1 but it was not until they see the internal parts of the GT1 in person that they are thoroughly impressed.

We have a lot of data to present so we will bring out more details regarding the GT1 once we organise them.

Jerrick

Tidgy

send me a free set to test for you and i'll let you know what i think,,,,,,,,, hahahahaha

MeisterR

Not quite in a position to do that, but we are confident that the GT1 can compete with anything on the market (including the likes of Ohlins DFV, KW, etc) and provide performance that will not disappoint owners.

Jerrick

Tidgy

was worth a try

Wouldie

And will these GT 1 coilovers fit any Subaru ie 2001 wrx ?

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

How would you compare the GT1's against EXE-TC's ?

MeisterR

Yes, the development of the GT1 is the technology.
The idea is that we can build the GT1 technology into any of our existing MeisterR setup.

So we will be able to provide the GT1 in the full range of Subaru coilovers we have from GC8 to the GR.

That is difficult to answer because I do not know what the EXT-TC are like.
Until we put one on the dyno, and look at all the seals of the damper, it is very difficult to gauge it's performance and quality.
What I don't want to do is make a "guess", because that type of response is no good to anyone.

I can tell you about the GT1 coilovers, because we know everything about it.
The GT1 are engineered by us as a fast road / track set up and comes with a lifetime warranty, that point alone separate it out from other suspension manufacturer.
The aim is to provide great fast road performance that is comfortable and compliant, but with the damping necessary to produce great result on those competitive track days.
The GT1 are design to compete with high end suspension such as Ohlins DFV.

The GT1 use advanced engineering and CNC production, to give us the right vehicle dynamic that a fast road / track user want.
Many of the parts originated from Black Art Design rally suspension experience that had been proven through the years of usage

So we know the GT1 are design to do a job, do the job well, and do it for a long time.
And that is why we back it with a lifetime warranty because the suspension are designed not to fail, with many of the internal parts engineered and produced in house.

Is it better than EXE-TC / Ohlins DFV / Nitron R1 / etc.
That is difficult to answer.

However, from a suspension engineer / vehicle dynamic engineer point of view, the MeisterR GT1 are not left "wanting" in the performance category.
It is exactly what you want to see a suspension do on a fast road / track day / tarmac rally vehicle.

Jerrick

PedroFT

iTrader: (1)

So you guys sell top hats in separate?
Looking for some rear top hats for a GC.

MeisterR

We can, but our rear top mount are design for our dampers.
So they may or may not fit other suspensions, it isn't something we will know.

Jerrick

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Have these been vigorously tested and is there anyone in the Subaru world bought them and opinions of them?
How do these compare to the top coilovers etc

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

And what does the lifetime warranty actually include?

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Life time warranty seems to include internals only, the bit that isnt likely to fail....

Without the external resivoir like others within the price range I cannot see how they can have damping as good as the competition. The amount of oil held is vital with the damping characteristics. The more oil, the more compliant you can make them.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Yes I skim read earlier lol.

I want to see/know comparisons now they been out for a while, and tbh you don't get internal warranty with any coilovers afaik, tein, blistein, kW onlind, exe, ast etc, when they need rebuilding and they do, some more than others and you got to pay, some are big bucks too (as you know also with exe), the kW however I see hardly need rebuilding and last for years.

Jerrick, has there been any back to back testing or even the pro's comparing them now they been out for a while now

Ascottie75

I know John @ BAD quite well, funny enough im going over to see him on Thursday to collect my old coilovers that he has just rebuilt for me.

I know him through the Aston Martin garage i used to work at, John @ BAD made our coilovers for our Aston racer and a couple of our customers Aston's also ran B.A.D coilovers

John knows his stuff (ex Leda guy) and im sure that the GT1 will be an epic coilover.

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Was just reading a review on mlr sprint car which came first in his class twice on the gt1s and 6th overall

MeisterR

To be honest, not really as we have been making changes along the way.
We keep finding little things to improve, from feedback of customers as well as result of competitive use.
I would say it is only the last 2 months we finalise our latest official launch version as we are now going to offer the GT1 in both USA as well as UK.

The latest version got a whole new internal piston design because we want to provide better damping response especially for the track use owners.
The net result was actually a better road suspension as well.
Feedback from our tester on prototype all report back better damping response as well as feeling more planted for road use vs. the previous generation of the GT1 which they were happy with already.

So we are happy with the latest design.

The lifetime warranty covers the "hydraulic function" of the damper.
Basically if there is no physical damage (scored shaft, bent rod, etc), we will rebuild the damper if it ever leaks.

We don't care if you put the GT1 on a Ring Taxi at Nurburgring, the long as there is no physical damage, we will rebuild the damper 5 years down the line.

the reason for this is because the GT1 use a unique, in house engineered, and in house manufactured CNC shaft seal.
A normal damper will not see more than 40 bars of pressure, this seal is rated at 400 bars.
This seal is also very hard, and therefore does not wear from normal operation.
What that mean is unless something physically "cut" the seal, the damper will carry on functioning forever.

Pretty sure no other manufacturer are willing to provide this level of warranty.
Because we are literally covering a moving, wear and tear parts.
The reason for that is because we made this wear and tear part not to wear and tear with precision material.

Jerrick

DoZZa

iTrader: (4)

Jerrick

Can you answer this post please?

I am in the market for a good set of coilovers. I am not looking for a bone shaking ride and need something that is going to be compliant on the type of rubbish pot hole filled roads I have to drive on!

What are these coilovers like on a day to day basis on normal, ie rubbish, UK road surfaces? I drive mainly B roads, lots of country lanes and sometimes a few A roads.

I am currently leaning towards a set of the Bilstien B16's.

But I would like to hear what you have to say about the comfort of these coilovers before I make a choice.

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Ohlins for me next few months

bustaMOVEs

iTrader: (31)

Re this question jerrick https://www.scoobynet.com/suspension...l#post11832141 last post.#9.

I want to know how you would compare (well without saying yours is better lol,)
I'm going to buy kW v3 for my classic, I don't want issues or rebuild in a couple of years etc like most hence choosing kW.
I want to use my car for 'hard' trackday use mainly and set up as that, with the odd usual good weather road blasting, I drive my car hard so I'd like something that will enspire me confidence and not make car skittish, but overall a excellent rebound for all types of rd and obviously first class on track.
So compare it to KW v3 as that's what I'm leaning towards for above reasons.

MeisterR

Okay, lets start with the oil questions first.
Oil volume does not affect compliancy at all.

Oil viscosity changes with heat, the way oil are graded in its ability to remain a stable viscosity is call "heat index".
Generally a good high heat index hydraulic oil will be around the 180 mark.
More oil volume does mean a damper will remain more consistent during hard usage, because there are more oil to distribute the heat.
If you have less room, another way to do that is to use better oil.
The GT1 uses one of the highest heat index hydraulic oil on the market from Millers Oil, with a heat index of 345.
BAD have been using this oil on Rally cars on years, and they don't suffer heat fade because the oil is able to remain stable under hard use.

The main thing with compliancy is the damping force.
More specifically is the cracking pressure of the compression curve.
If you have a damper with high cracking pressure, what that mean is the damper will not move until that pressure is achieved.
The result is feeling every little bump on the road because those little bump do not generate enough pressure for the damper to move.
What that mean is you are riding on 4 solid rod because the damper isn't moving and hydraulic oil do not compress.
This is commonly used on race damper because that also provide better steering response as well as apply pressure to "slick" tyres to generate traction.

MeisterR GT1 uses a variable digressive shims stack.
This comes out of BAD long years of experience.
By using variable shims thickness and stacking them in a digressive format, we are able to provide softer cracking pressure on softer adjustments while retaining the peak damping force figure.
What that mean you can have compliancy, as well as control on the softer setting for road use.

On stiffer setting, the bleed adjuster close, and the cracking pressure increase.
This will allow cars to have that crisp turn in response as well as pushing the tyres to generate heat and traction during track days.

All you have to do is twist a **** on the top of the damper, will take you less then 2 minute to go from comfort street to track attack setting.

Hope that answer a few question.


Okay, I will break this down into 2 parts base only on facts.

1. Specification of the suspension
2. Ability of the driver in using the suspension

1. Specification of the suspension

KW V3: No top mount, Adjustable Twin-Tube Damper, 2-way compression and rebound independent adjustments.
MeisterR GT1: Front and Rear top mount included, Adjustable Mono-tube Damper, 1-way compression and rebound combined adjustments.

Top mount is a easy thing to understand, one has it and the other doesn't.
Mono-tube and Twin-tube will have a forever debate on superior performance, but generally speaking the Mono-tube is a superior performance damper design because it has an internal high pressure gas charged chamber.
This help prevent cavitation under hard usage.
Mono-tube also use larger piston, it allows better damping response as well as having better control over heat under hard usage vs. the twin-tube dampers.

Those are pretty straight forward physical difference base on performance.

2. Ability of the driver in using the suspension

An advantage of the KW is that it is a 2-way suspension if you know how to adjust it.
The disadvantage of the KW is that it is a 2-way suspension if you do not know how to adjust it.

How do you adjust a 2-way suspension?
Generally for track, you want to be running about 100% critical rebound damping force.
And you want to adjust the compression to what ever the track surfaces will allow.
Generally speaking, you want to have a 1:2 ratio for track use, and about a 1:3 ratio (compression to rebound) for fast road use.

Now here is the questions... how do you adjust the KW?
How do you know when to increase the compression, or decrease it.
How do you know what damping force are provided at what adjustment so you know you are at 100% critical rebound?
Because unless you have a damper dyno of every damping adjustments, it is literally impossible for you to dial it in.

You can forget about asking KW for damper dyno, I already had a customer with an EVO who got a set of V3 and tired that, got no useful info as a reply.
So if you have a team supporting you and you will have all the damper dyno sorted, the KW V3 can allow good adjustments especially if you are have different track surfaces (rain, gravel, etc).
If you do not know what you are doing and do not have track side support, then you are just turning a **** and hope it works.

On the MeisterR GT1, the reason we stick with a 1-way adjustable system is because the compression to rebound ratio are pre-determined during the assembly.
So we made sure the critical damping will normally be within the first 5 clicks from full hard, and the ratio are correct.
So as you dial it down, the softer setting will work fine for road use and is compliant.
On the track, you will be near the top end so that is the full potential of the damper pushing weight onto the tyres.

This way you adjust the damper using the "butt dyno".
Too hard? soften it.
Too soft? stiffen it.
What ever setting you are at, the damper should be working at a ratio and damping figure that is vehicle dynamically functional, because we design them to work that way from the get go during assembly.
The down side is you cannot have independent adjustments, so you cannot reduce compression force without reducing rebound force when it suddenly decide to rain on the track.

So there you have it.
Both have pros and cons, and it greatly depending on what you want.
MeisterR GT1 use mono-tube because it provide a more consistent and repeatable damper, that is easy to adjust by novice.
KW V3 use a twin-tube damper as that is what they have been using for many years, allows more adjustment, but difficult to adjust correctly unless you have a lot of knowledge on vehicle dynamics, as well as data necessary to make the adjustments.

What suit your usage better is for you to decide.
I hope that helps.

Jerrick

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the reply there.

However I don't actually see anything there that makes them better than any of the high end products.

I run EXE-TC'S fast road set up on my 500+hp gc8, and having been to their workshop and asked exactly the same questions as you have been asked they almost verbatim told me what you have said.

However it was about their own product. So I don't see it has really answered the question to be honest.

EXE TC offer a new seals kit with their suspension that does exactly what yours does. Specifically designed for rallying etc.

They have a larger volume of oil within their damper to enable better heat management than yours, they also use the highest quality oil possible. Let's face it, you aren't going to advertise using cheap **** oil. And more oil within a damper is always better.

They use the same dynamic damping/rebound adjustment settings like yours although their system is somewhat progressive through out. Not just on the softer end of the scale.

Cracking pressures were all explained and also the use of helper springs to keep the wheel in contact with the road more. The EXE-TC'S Are a proper fast road set up and are easily as co.pliant as the standard suspension.

Their damper is made of stainless steel and will not corrode etc. What is yours made of? It looks like any other anodised/powder coated damper.

I would say the two most important things when buying a high end coilover are missing from yours. A decent damper made from quality materials. And an external reservoir.

MeisterR

Well, I was never asked specifically about MeisterR GT1 coilovers, and I got to remain a bit neutral.

You seems to be very uptight on this oil issue, so lets visit this again.
Is more oil better? Yes... Does it really matter? That depends.
If your oil isn't heating up to the point of having viscosity changes, damping figure is stable through the usage... what does having more oil do?
Nothing much... weight a bit more, maybe marginally more stable temperature, but that's about it.

It is like having a big exhaust on a turbo car, less back pressure is better.
But if you are only running 280bhp, and you have 3.5" exhaust that already have very little back pressure.
Do you really benefit from having a 4" exhaust that will have even less back pressure?
At some point, you hit a diminishing return point due to the usage.

So in the exhaust case, if you are running 600 horsepower, then you want that 4" exhaust.
In the oil case, if you are going to rally the car, then you want more oil.
Pretty straight forward answer, but oil volume do not affect the dynamic of the damper; it has nothing to do with compliancy of the damper.

Okay, onto the MeisterR GT1 coilovers.

The MeisterR GT1 for starter run 2 piston inside, with 2 wear tape.
This twin piston design spread the load along with the guide block to provide reinforcement for the damper against side load.
We went for this design as we can provide high strength similar to an inverted damper, without actually going to an inverted design which have other maintenance issue with them for "Fast Road & Track" user.
This upright design mean you don't have to worry about grease drying on the outer seal, or the adjustment dial seizing due to exposure to the element; issue that inverted damper could suffer.
It also mean you can just adjust the damping by opening the bonnet instead of crawling on the ground to reach behind the wheel; never nice on a cold, wet, muddy lay-by.

We manufacturer our own CNC shaft seal using ultrasound tested Austrian polyurethane.
Our damper shaft seal have extremely low over lap, and this reduce stiction on our damper massively.
The GT1 damper on the dyno show a stiction figure of 3lbf.
The damper shaft seal is also rated to 400 bars of pressure (a damper wouldn't exceed 40 bars), and due to the hard material it also does not wear.
This is why we offer a lifetime warranty because that seal isn't suppose to fail unless physically damaged.

We use a custom moulded progressive bump stop, this work similar to the Eibach ERS Secondary Springs.
Our bump stop are designed to mechanically crush then materially crush.
The bump stop start at 7lbf and progressive load to 400lbf over 70% of its crush travel.
With this bump stop, you can engage it without even knowing, and it is all to improve road compliancy.

We don't use helper springs on our kit as springs rate are design for fast road & track use, and that mean they are sensible keeping wheel frequency under the 2.0Hz.
When you use helper springs with this type of setup, you are giving up compression travel as the weight of the body will create enough droop travel already.

I just notice that the EXE-TC is a single perch coilovers, where MeisterR use a dual perch design having independent spring pre-load and ride height adjustments.
So that is why GT1 don't need a helper spring also, because we can achieve our ride height using the coilovers adjustments while keeping the main springs constantly loaded without the need for helper springs.

The MeisterR GT1 retails at £1650, and we are doing an initial launch offer at £1295, that includes VAT and UK delivery.
How much is the EXE-TC? Last I check it was around £2000.
They are great suspension, but you got to compare apple to apple in regards to price.

If you want to get fancy, we can do 3-way adjustable dampers with remote canister.

We can make the body out of carbon steel, stainless steel, even alloys if you are really worry about corrosion.
We can plate them in anything your wallet can afford, we even plated a damper rod in Titanium Nitrate not too long ago because customer request it to be gold.

The down-side is cost, I think for our 3-way you are looking at £3500 to start.
Will go up ward to £5000 depending on what you are doing.
And realistically, it is way beyond what people need for a fast road & track car.
BAD put these type of suspension on competitive race car, with every intend to stand on the podium at the end of the race (and most of them do).

So coming back down to affordable suspension price of the GT1, I'll be happy to pitch it against any suspension you can name within the fast road & track circle.
We design the GT1 suspension to go up against the like of Ohlins DFV, so we certainly aren't going to do half a package that suck and make a fool of ourself.

Jerrick

MeisterR

Just to check if there are any other question, not sure if I either went too technical or not given enough on my previous answer.

So if someone got something they aren't sure, let me know and I'll help clarify it.
Because there was a few question sad all of them require a bit of an in-depth answer.

Jerrick

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

do these have pillowball top mounts? Any noise issues with them...?