Evolution of the car previously known as the "ScoobyNet Spec C Project Car"
12 May 2009, 07:18 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Evolution of the car previously known as the "ScoobyNet Spec C Project Car"
Picking up where we left off
I will most probably create a site dedicated to the life of this car, recreating the original articles that were produced for all to read, but have since been “lost” from within ScoobyNet.
In the meantime I thought it would be useful to give a lowdown of what has happened since the last article, which was Engine Stage 3 (way back in early 2008). For obvious reasons I won’t go in to the same kind of detail here, as I will save this for the re-release.
I am sure a number of people will be interested in hearing about what has been happening over the past 8 months. Whilst the development will be continuing, here is an overview thus far:
May – August 2008
The car had been used for various track events (non competitive, except for ScoobyLive) included Snetterton and Donington Park.
I had always had “issues” (in my mind) with the response / spool of the car and something to me never seemed right…. Something was missing.
The only problem I had physically encountered that I knew needed attention was a slight oil leak, which seemed to be coming from the turbo.
Tracktive Solutions, who were now tasked with any work relating to the Spec C, suggested that the turbo should be removed and checked in the first instance.
I will most probably create a site dedicated to the life of this car, recreating the original articles that were produced for all to read, but have since been “lost” from within ScoobyNet.
In the meantime I thought it would be useful to give a lowdown of what has happened since the last article, which was Engine Stage 3 (way back in early 2008). For obvious reasons I won’t go in to the same kind of detail here, as I will save this for the re-release.
I am sure a number of people will be interested in hearing about what has been happening over the past 8 months. Whilst the development will be continuing, here is an overview thus far:
May – August 2008
The car had been used for various track events (non competitive, except for ScoobyLive) included Snetterton and Donington Park.
I had always had “issues” (in my mind) with the response / spool of the car and something to me never seemed right…. Something was missing.
The only problem I had physically encountered that I knew needed attention was a slight oil leak, which seemed to be coming from the turbo.
Tracktive Solutions, who were now tasked with any work relating to the Spec C, suggested that the turbo should be removed and checked in the first instance.
Last edited by Shaun; 12 May 2009 at 07:26 PM.
12 May 2009, 07:28 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
September 2008
I’m not sure anyone was prepared for what was going to be found, but the result was conclusive. The turbo was totally scrap!!! Oh and my up-pipe was disintegrating!!!
This was the extensive list of issues with the turbo:
1) Comp and Exh wheel clipped their respective housings.
2) Bearings had failed
3) Seals had failed
4) Exh housing had cracked
5) Wastegate was twisted
6) Turbine - well you can see for yourself in the proceeding picture!
What could have been damaged WAS damaged.
The issue with the turbo was a combination of too small an exhaust housing, causing excessive heat which fatigued the up-pipe. The fatigued up-pipe started to breakdown internally, passing debris through the turbo which initially destroyed the turbine blades. The heat caused by the boost levels on a small housing, caused the exhaust housing cracks, knackered wastegate and bearing failure.
We suspect the turbo started to fail prior to TOTB 2007 (which explains quite a lot in the cars performance on the road/track). Perhaps I never had a chance of performing well to be honest and I am surprised it went as well as it did.
Brown discolouration was evident on both the inside of the up-pipe and the internal side of the exhaust housing. This backs up the temperature issue theory.
Oh… and the place where the oil was coming from was evident… it was coming out of the turbo, since the seals had gone.
The turbo was duly sent to AET for diagnosis (not that it really needed one!). I will always remember the conversation I had with Andy Taylor at AET.
“Shaun… think of trying to pick water up with a spoon. That is exactly what your turbo is trying to do with the exhaust gases!”
AET, who had supplied previous development turbo’s for the Project were still onboard and sent us a new turbo. This one had a slightly different core and a bigger exhaust housing. Hopefully this time it would stop any of the previously seen heat related problems that contributed to the terminal failure of the previous turbo.
Along with the turbo change the failed up-pipe was also replaced. This time with a Tracktive twin to single scroll up-pipe. This was wrapped before being put on the Spec C.
I’m not sure anyone was prepared for what was going to be found, but the result was conclusive. The turbo was totally scrap!!! Oh and my up-pipe was disintegrating!!!
This was the extensive list of issues with the turbo:
1) Comp and Exh wheel clipped their respective housings.
2) Bearings had failed
3) Seals had failed
4) Exh housing had cracked
5) Wastegate was twisted
6) Turbine - well you can see for yourself in the proceeding picture!
What could have been damaged WAS damaged.
The issue with the turbo was a combination of too small an exhaust housing, causing excessive heat which fatigued the up-pipe. The fatigued up-pipe started to breakdown internally, passing debris through the turbo which initially destroyed the turbine blades. The heat caused by the boost levels on a small housing, caused the exhaust housing cracks, knackered wastegate and bearing failure.
We suspect the turbo started to fail prior to TOTB 2007 (which explains quite a lot in the cars performance on the road/track). Perhaps I never had a chance of performing well to be honest and I am surprised it went as well as it did.
Brown discolouration was evident on both the inside of the up-pipe and the internal side of the exhaust housing. This backs up the temperature issue theory.
Oh… and the place where the oil was coming from was evident… it was coming out of the turbo, since the seals had gone.
The turbo was duly sent to AET for diagnosis (not that it really needed one!). I will always remember the conversation I had with Andy Taylor at AET.
“Shaun… think of trying to pick water up with a spoon. That is exactly what your turbo is trying to do with the exhaust gases!”
AET, who had supplied previous development turbo’s for the Project were still onboard and sent us a new turbo. This one had a slightly different core and a bigger exhaust housing. Hopefully this time it would stop any of the previously seen heat related problems that contributed to the terminal failure of the previous turbo.
Along with the turbo change the failed up-pipe was also replaced. This time with a Tracktive twin to single scroll up-pipe. This was wrapped before being put on the Spec C.
12 May 2009, 08:24 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
The entire job lot would of come to over £50k including the 2nd hand price of the car.... but that includes ALL the work that has been done from day 1 to present.
12 May 2009, 08:25 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
October 2008
The new turbo and up-pipe were fitted and the car went through the process of being mapped by Tracktive.
Since this was the first time this car had been mapped on Tracktives HUB Dyno, comparison with previous runs was impossible. The only comparator we had were the runs completed on AET's HUB Dyno.
Tracktive started the mapping process on the road, reserving the full bore power mapping / runs for the HUB Dyno.
Since I was not able to be with Tracktive when the road mapping took place, I was receiving updates over a week on how things had gone. Richard Bulmer (of Tracktive) was very pleased with how the engine/turbo responded and reported back to me that it felt very lively and was pulling 1bar of boost sub 3k rpm. With the old turbo it had NEVER spooled like that and was more like 3200-3300rpm for 1bar.
As the week progressed the last update I received was that the car was ready for the high power pulls on the dyno and final mapping. One last "story" was told prior to the end of the conversation....
Richard said that whilst mapping on that day (he was driving and his technician Matt, was assisting with the mapping as a passenger).
Richard completed an acceleration run and said to Matt "What do you think?"
Matt replied "Feels quick... what gear was that in, 3rd?"
Richard replied "Nope... 5th"
Matt replied "No way"
Richard replied "OK... I will do it again and you look to see what gear I am in!!"
Richard explained to me that the car pulled that well lowdown and mid-range that it felt like a normal tuned Scoob would pull in 3rd.
I was a tad excited!
The car was being prepared for a Subaru 2.5 ShootOut being held at ZEN that weekend and Richard had planned to finish the car off on the Dyno on the Saturday.... nothing like last minute then!
The new turbo and up-pipe were fitted and the car went through the process of being mapped by Tracktive.
Since this was the first time this car had been mapped on Tracktives HUB Dyno, comparison with previous runs was impossible. The only comparator we had were the runs completed on AET's HUB Dyno.
Tracktive started the mapping process on the road, reserving the full bore power mapping / runs for the HUB Dyno.
Since I was not able to be with Tracktive when the road mapping took place, I was receiving updates over a week on how things had gone. Richard Bulmer (of Tracktive) was very pleased with how the engine/turbo responded and reported back to me that it felt very lively and was pulling 1bar of boost sub 3k rpm. With the old turbo it had NEVER spooled like that and was more like 3200-3300rpm for 1bar.
As the week progressed the last update I received was that the car was ready for the high power pulls on the dyno and final mapping. One last "story" was told prior to the end of the conversation....
Richard said that whilst mapping on that day (he was driving and his technician Matt, was assisting with the mapping as a passenger).
Richard completed an acceleration run and said to Matt "What do you think?"
Matt replied "Feels quick... what gear was that in, 3rd?"
Richard replied "Nope... 5th"
Matt replied "No way"
Richard replied "OK... I will do it again and you look to see what gear I am in!!"
Richard explained to me that the car pulled that well lowdown and mid-range that it felt like a normal tuned Scoob would pull in 3rd.
I was a tad excited!
The car was being prepared for a Subaru 2.5 ShootOut being held at ZEN that weekend and Richard had planned to finish the car off on the Dyno on the Saturday.... nothing like last minute then!
12 May 2009, 09:01 PM
#6
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
October 2008 - The day before the 2.5 ShootOut
This was the day to see what the engine produced as a final check prior to the 2.5 ShootOut.
Once Richard was happy with the mapping, he started a run to baseline a power figure and the car produced just under 420bhp at the HUBS. This equated to approximately what had been seen on AET's Hub Dyno previously.
Looking at the Dyno Plots it was evident that boost at peak power was quite low (circa 1.6bar) and it did not matter what Richard tried, he could not get the boost to increase. Based on the spec of the engine and turbo, this did not seem right, so the investigation started.
The car was equipped with a HyperFlow inner wing induction kit and Richard was slightly concerned at the relative small size of the filter, in respect to the amount of air required for producing around 500bhp at the flywheel.
The first thing he did was to remove the fog lamp cover (to feed the HyperFlow filter better) and try another run. The boost started to go a bit crazy.... he was on to something. He then removed the inner wing pipe and hung it out of the top of the engine bay and found another air filter (which was bigger) and tried it again. As before the boost (and power) increased again.
Since he was in full development mode, he decided to remove the boost control limits and see what boost the turbo could achieve (whilst listening for DET and ensuring nothing bad would happen..... this was all about development afterall and I accepted any associated risks). The boost hit 2.5bar peak and help around 2.1bar at peak power!! I think we may of found the problem then! He was amazed that he heard no DET and that the engine seemed to love the boost.
The engine made a whopping 485bhp / 550lbft at the HUBS!!
Unfortunately time ran away with us, as it was already past 6pm on the Saturday and we had not even started the final boost/fuel trimming on the road. Since Richard had to make a "make shift" modification to my inner wing induction kit, the car was ran again, but this time with sensible boost and the car produced a still credible 435bhp @ the HUBS.
We then went out on the road to map, and because of time (again) Richard had no choice but to finish the map off as a very safe map. Whilst not ideal, at at least made sure I could attend the event the next day and also gave him food for thought for when the car went back in the near future to finish what he had started.
This was the first time I had driven the car with the new turbo, and it was so so different than it had ever been. Response was almost instant and it made boost from nothing, compared to how it had been. I was over the moon with the driveability. In fact I was ecstatic!! I had finally got the driveability that I wanted and the mid-range punch following it.
I was certainly very happy with the new turbo from AET and work that Tracktive had done to make it all work.
This was the day to see what the engine produced as a final check prior to the 2.5 ShootOut.
Once Richard was happy with the mapping, he started a run to baseline a power figure and the car produced just under 420bhp at the HUBS. This equated to approximately what had been seen on AET's Hub Dyno previously.
Looking at the Dyno Plots it was evident that boost at peak power was quite low (circa 1.6bar) and it did not matter what Richard tried, he could not get the boost to increase. Based on the spec of the engine and turbo, this did not seem right, so the investigation started.
The car was equipped with a HyperFlow inner wing induction kit and Richard was slightly concerned at the relative small size of the filter, in respect to the amount of air required for producing around 500bhp at the flywheel.
The first thing he did was to remove the fog lamp cover (to feed the HyperFlow filter better) and try another run. The boost started to go a bit crazy.... he was on to something. He then removed the inner wing pipe and hung it out of the top of the engine bay and found another air filter (which was bigger) and tried it again. As before the boost (and power) increased again.
Since he was in full development mode, he decided to remove the boost control limits and see what boost the turbo could achieve (whilst listening for DET and ensuring nothing bad would happen..... this was all about development afterall and I accepted any associated risks). The boost hit 2.5bar peak and help around 2.1bar at peak power!! I think we may of found the problem then! He was amazed that he heard no DET and that the engine seemed to love the boost.
The engine made a whopping 485bhp / 550lbft at the HUBS!!
Unfortunately time ran away with us, as it was already past 6pm on the Saturday and we had not even started the final boost/fuel trimming on the road. Since Richard had to make a "make shift" modification to my inner wing induction kit, the car was ran again, but this time with sensible boost and the car produced a still credible 435bhp @ the HUBS.
We then went out on the road to map, and because of time (again) Richard had no choice but to finish the map off as a very safe map. Whilst not ideal, at at least made sure I could attend the event the next day and also gave him food for thought for when the car went back in the near future to finish what he had started.
This was the first time I had driven the car with the new turbo, and it was so so different than it had ever been. Response was almost instant and it made boost from nothing, compared to how it had been. I was over the moon with the driveability. In fact I was ecstatic!! I had finally got the driveability that I wanted and the mid-range punch following it.
I was certainly very happy with the new turbo from AET and work that Tracktive had done to make it all work.
Last edited by Shaun; 12 May 2009 at 09:58 PM.
12 May 2009, 09:25 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
October 2008 - The ZEN 2.5ltr ShootOut
Hot from the mapping session (which provided some highs and lows), the Spec C attended the ZEN 2.5ltr ShootOut. Unfortunately the car still required more work (which was highlighted by the previous days events), but at least it was their running.
Whilst I was secretly hoping for 500+bhp at the fly, I knew it was unrealistic to expect that based on the 435bhp HUB Dyno result.... but it should be somewhere near, maybe!
The car was ran and achieved 498.5bhp / 523.6lbft!!
At this point in time it was the most that ZEN had seen on their dyno, with a scoob running a standard fit turbo whilst on VPower. The Spec C was that savage on power that it required double strapping and was run in 5th (the only car requiring BOTH those measures during the day).
If you look at the power graph you can see that the immense torque lowdown (by 3500rpm you see 480lbft!), which not only explains the measures taken to ensure the car did not go skybound on the rolling road, but also backs up my previous comments on how strong this car feels on the road. Regardless of the cars spec (which will be detailed in full further on), these are very impressive results for a bolt on turbo running VPower.
As you can also see the boost levels whilst fairly decent, are certainly conservative compared to what was seen the day before with the inlet mods etc.
Circa 1.9bar peak and 1.7bar at peak power.
The fueling was also run rich as seen by the AFR's. After a quick chat with Richard on the phone, he was adament that improvements could be made.
So the car quickly went back to Tracktive to carry on the work.
Hot from the mapping session (which provided some highs and lows), the Spec C attended the ZEN 2.5ltr ShootOut. Unfortunately the car still required more work (which was highlighted by the previous days events), but at least it was their running.
Whilst I was secretly hoping for 500+bhp at the fly, I knew it was unrealistic to expect that based on the 435bhp HUB Dyno result.... but it should be somewhere near, maybe!
The car was ran and achieved 498.5bhp / 523.6lbft!!
At this point in time it was the most that ZEN had seen on their dyno, with a scoob running a standard fit turbo whilst on VPower. The Spec C was that savage on power that it required double strapping and was run in 5th (the only car requiring BOTH those measures during the day).
If you look at the power graph you can see that the immense torque lowdown (by 3500rpm you see 480lbft!), which not only explains the measures taken to ensure the car did not go skybound on the rolling road, but also backs up my previous comments on how strong this car feels on the road. Regardless of the cars spec (which will be detailed in full further on), these are very impressive results for a bolt on turbo running VPower.
As you can also see the boost levels whilst fairly decent, are certainly conservative compared to what was seen the day before with the inlet mods etc.
Circa 1.9bar peak and 1.7bar at peak power.
The fueling was also run rich as seen by the AFR's. After a quick chat with Richard on the phone, he was adament that improvements could be made.
So the car quickly went back to Tracktive to carry on the work.
Last edited by Shaun; 12 May 2009 at 09:47 PM.
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12 May 2009, 09:54 PM
#8
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
November 2008 - Inlet Mods and Remapping
Now that Tracktive had something to aim for, work started on the inlet side first.
Richard was adament that even the make shift inner kit was no where near big enough and it was also decided that the inner wing needed to be boxed off. Together with ensuring a ram air affect was being utilised, it was also decided to modify the fog lamp cover to provide better air flow.... i.e. create a duct in at the front.
Tracktive found the biggest air filter that could be put inside my wing and made the appropriate fabrication modifications to the rest of the inner wing / fog lamp cover area.
The car was then ready for the HUB Dyno again!
Again, I was not able to be at Tracktive whilst this took place, but received the text message from Richard whilst he was mapping...
477bhp at the HUBS had been achieved!
This was with boost of just under (IIRC) 2bar at peak power.
This figure was already 40+bhp more than had been achieved before the day prior to the Zen ShootOut. Things were looking very very good. If anything it certainly proved that the original HyperFlow air filter was certainly a restriction and a bigger air filter and better ducting was required for outputs approaching and in excess of 500bhp at the fly.
Testing was halted there as I really wanted to try the potential benefits of other types of fuel..... like BIO E85.
Now that Tracktive had something to aim for, work started on the inlet side first.
Richard was adament that even the make shift inner kit was no where near big enough and it was also decided that the inner wing needed to be boxed off. Together with ensuring a ram air affect was being utilised, it was also decided to modify the fog lamp cover to provide better air flow.... i.e. create a duct in at the front.
Tracktive found the biggest air filter that could be put inside my wing and made the appropriate fabrication modifications to the rest of the inner wing / fog lamp cover area.
The car was then ready for the HUB Dyno again!
Again, I was not able to be at Tracktive whilst this took place, but received the text message from Richard whilst he was mapping...
477bhp at the HUBS had been achieved!
This was with boost of just under (IIRC) 2bar at peak power.
This figure was already 40+bhp more than had been achieved before the day prior to the Zen ShootOut. Things were looking very very good. If anything it certainly proved that the original HyperFlow air filter was certainly a restriction and a bigger air filter and better ducting was required for outputs approaching and in excess of 500bhp at the fly.
Testing was halted there as I really wanted to try the potential benefits of other types of fuel..... like BIO E85.
Last edited by Shaun; 12 May 2009 at 09:59 PM.
12 May 2009, 10:21 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
I've had enough for tonight.... me brain and memory has given up. Only 6 months to cover on the next installment! 
Get your Hob **** and coffee ready for tomorrow night.... second thoughts, it might be the night after as I could be picking the car up tomorrow night.... after over 6 months of not driving it!
Get your Hob **** and coffee ready for tomorrow night.... second thoughts, it might be the night after as I could be picking the car up tomorrow night.... after over 6 months of not driving it!
14 May 2009, 08:57 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
December 2008 - E85 Fuel Testing
After some impressive overall results and gains from previous state of tune using VPower, it was decided to see what could be made with different fuels.
I have always been resistant to using other fuel types on this car, especially considering the car had now been set-up for road use (anyone following the previous modification articles would remember it being a track dedicated car).... OK it would still be used on the track, but it was really a road car now. This was further backed up by the fact that it now houses all the standard interior, suspension spring rates have been changed to road spec..... and it even has a stereo, bluetooth hands free kit and sub!!! I really wanted a "sleeper" now! So the ethos of using generally available forecourt fuel was the original remit, as I could not be bothered with messng around with mixing etc.
Since we had reached a certain point with VPower, and based on the conversations already being had concerning BIO Fuel, we thought it would be a good idea to give it a bash.
Something that people do not realise is that running something like BIO Fuel, requires fueling capacities to be increased.... i.e. you need to flow more fuel. Since I was already running 1150cc Injectors and an appropriate fuel system to match, the supply of more fuel was not going to be an issue. Apart from throwing in some different fuel and remapping, that is all that
was required..... a no brainer to test then really!
So, with 40ltrs of Morrisons E85 BIO in hand off Tracktive went to see what the engine would do, or so we thought............
We decided to go for a 20% mix of E85 with VPower. Since the car is equipped with a HYDRA ECU, we were able to utilise several different fuel maps that could be selected at the flick of a switch. I already had two fuel maps, one for VPower and one for "other" Super Unleaded, so it was decided to add a third fuel map for BIO.
If you are not already aware BIO is a Higher Octane fuel with a higher oxygen/alcholol content. In theory, this would allow a bigger and better "bang" with the advantage of more "knock" resistance. Laymans terms more "Power".
Since the fuel map had to be radically changed for BIO, due to the fact that fuel needed to be increased, Tracktive decided to complete some road mapping first to get the driveability right.
At this stage I received some unfortunate news....
Whilst Richard was out completing his first round of road mapping on E85 (cold start initially), he noticed a strong smell of fuel. Because of the fact that my fuel lines in the boot (for the external 044 fuel pump and swirl pot setup I use to stop fuel surge) were of a certain type of Aeroquip hose and can cause fuel to be smelt, he thought nothing of it (the type of aeroquip I have let's vapour escape through the pipework).
The next day Richard had it on the dyno, getting some heat in the engine, prior to doing some full bore runs. Matt his technician was at the front of the car and apparantly had a fit and shouted at Richard to STOP the car immediately. The reason for the panic was that fuel was spraying out of the rails from the brazed areas of the fittings on both rails (I have modifed OE fuel rails to ensure they can run in parallel). I had an immediate call from Richard as soon as he took the rails off, as he found other issues as well. This included swollen pipe work (for fuel) and swollen injector o-rings.
Richard re-brazed both rails, changed the o-rings and relevant pipework. Work then re-started again on the BIO tests. No exact conclusion was drawn to what actually caused these issues.
After some impressive overall results and gains from previous state of tune using VPower, it was decided to see what could be made with different fuels.
I have always been resistant to using other fuel types on this car, especially considering the car had now been set-up for road use (anyone following the previous modification articles would remember it being a track dedicated car).... OK it would still be used on the track, but it was really a road car now. This was further backed up by the fact that it now houses all the standard interior, suspension spring rates have been changed to road spec..... and it even has a stereo, bluetooth hands free kit and sub!!! I really wanted a "sleeper" now! So the ethos of using generally available forecourt fuel was the original remit, as I could not be bothered with messng around with mixing etc.
Since we had reached a certain point with VPower, and based on the conversations already being had concerning BIO Fuel, we thought it would be a good idea to give it a bash.
Something that people do not realise is that running something like BIO Fuel, requires fueling capacities to be increased.... i.e. you need to flow more fuel. Since I was already running 1150cc Injectors and an appropriate fuel system to match, the supply of more fuel was not going to be an issue. Apart from throwing in some different fuel and remapping, that is all that
was required..... a no brainer to test then really!
So, with 40ltrs of Morrisons E85 BIO in hand off Tracktive went to see what the engine would do, or so we thought............
We decided to go for a 20% mix of E85 with VPower. Since the car is equipped with a HYDRA ECU, we were able to utilise several different fuel maps that could be selected at the flick of a switch. I already had two fuel maps, one for VPower and one for "other" Super Unleaded, so it was decided to add a third fuel map for BIO.
If you are not already aware BIO is a Higher Octane fuel with a higher oxygen/alcholol content. In theory, this would allow a bigger and better "bang" with the advantage of more "knock" resistance. Laymans terms more "Power".
Since the fuel map had to be radically changed for BIO, due to the fact that fuel needed to be increased, Tracktive decided to complete some road mapping first to get the driveability right.
At this stage I received some unfortunate news....
Whilst Richard was out completing his first round of road mapping on E85 (cold start initially), he noticed a strong smell of fuel. Because of the fact that my fuel lines in the boot (for the external 044 fuel pump and swirl pot setup I use to stop fuel surge) were of a certain type of Aeroquip hose and can cause fuel to be smelt, he thought nothing of it (the type of aeroquip I have let's vapour escape through the pipework).
The next day Richard had it on the dyno, getting some heat in the engine, prior to doing some full bore runs. Matt his technician was at the front of the car and apparantly had a fit and shouted at Richard to STOP the car immediately. The reason for the panic was that fuel was spraying out of the rails from the brazed areas of the fittings on both rails (I have modifed OE fuel rails to ensure they can run in parallel). I had an immediate call from Richard as soon as he took the rails off, as he found other issues as well. This included swollen pipe work (for fuel) and swollen injector o-rings.
Richard re-brazed both rails, changed the o-rings and relevant pipework. Work then re-started again on the BIO tests. No exact conclusion was drawn to what actually caused these issues.
Last edited by Shaun; 14 May 2009 at 08:59 PM.
14 May 2009, 09:27 PM
#15
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
December 2008 - E85 Fuel Testing Continued
OK... so with these previous issues sorted it was now time to carry on with the E85 testing.
It was now back to the road for carrying on with the driveability mapping. Whilst I was unable to take part in this, I was hearing favourable feedback from Richard on how things were progressing, regarding to how much more livier it was on the road.
Richard was now at a point where he needed to complete the full boost runs on the dyno. As with the previous power level and way it delivered the power on the road with VPower, Richard was now absolutely adamant that any full boost runs with this car would now only be completed on the dyno...... it was simply too dangerous to complete on the road! The dyno mapping date had now been fixed and this date was to be the last week in December..... a belated Christmas present for me!
As I turned up at Tracktive I was presented with one single, life changing question.....
"Has your engine lost water before or had temperature issues?"
I think some of you will realise where I knew this was going to end up!
Richard had explained that during the last bit of road mapping he noticed that the water temp had crept up and the symptoms were pointing towards a dreaded headgasket failure.
Since the car was already on the dyno he explained that we would still go ahead with the full boost runs and monitor.
I was a bit disappointed by the initial results of E85, which produced.....
495bhp / 530lbft at the HUBS
This resulted in circa 18bhp increase over the previous VPower runs. I was certainly expecting a lot more based on what others had experienced...... but in reality this engine was now producing a tad under 500bhp at the HUBS, which is nothing to be sniffed at, when considering it is still using a standard fit/position turbo! I am not aware of any other 2.5ltr Subaru on a standard fit turbo that has achieved figures like that on a HUB Dyno.
Unfortunately that disappointment was nothing compared to what I was about to get!!
Richard tried another run after changing ignition / boost and the inevitable happened..... the water system pressurised and blew most of the water out of the expansion tank.
After re-filling the coolant system and ensuring that it was free of any airlocks, Richard tried again.... the same results.
It was game over!!!
The IMMEDIATE conversation that followed was........
"Right! That's it then. You need to pull the engine and get them Headgaskets changed!!"
No need for tears as I knew exactly what issue could arise as soon as Richard had posed the initial question on my arrival.
So there we have it! After almost 10k miles of abuse on the road/track/dyno, the engine saw it's first real problem. Not great news by any means, but something we hoped would be easy to remedy..... and let's be honest, when you abuse an engine what this had been subjected to in nearly 10k miles, you can not expect 15k oil change intervals and 100% reliability for 100k miles.
**** happens.
Just for info to add to the mix and give you some contextural information on what the engine has being delt.
The engine has had the following life since being built and placed in the car, early 2007.
ScoobyLive event x 2
TOTB event x 1
Santa Pod Strip (standing starts in total at ALL venues - circa 30 with launch control)
Snetterton (open pit lane full day)
Donnington (sessions one full day and afternoon)
Rockingham (sessions 2 days)
Castle Coombe (two sessions)
400+ power runs on various dyno's.
Constant map changes.
Circa 500bhp for most of it's life, sustaining 2bar+ (peak) for the majority of miles, tested at 2.5bar as well.
So.... the next stage of this evolution was about to begin all over again.
OK... so with these previous issues sorted it was now time to carry on with the E85 testing.
It was now back to the road for carrying on with the driveability mapping. Whilst I was unable to take part in this, I was hearing favourable feedback from Richard on how things were progressing, regarding to how much more livier it was on the road.
Richard was now at a point where he needed to complete the full boost runs on the dyno. As with the previous power level and way it delivered the power on the road with VPower, Richard was now absolutely adamant that any full boost runs with this car would now only be completed on the dyno...... it was simply too dangerous to complete on the road! The dyno mapping date had now been fixed and this date was to be the last week in December..... a belated Christmas present for me!
As I turned up at Tracktive I was presented with one single, life changing question.....
"Has your engine lost water before or had temperature issues?"
I think some of you will realise where I knew this was going to end up!
Richard had explained that during the last bit of road mapping he noticed that the water temp had crept up and the symptoms were pointing towards a dreaded headgasket failure.
Since the car was already on the dyno he explained that we would still go ahead with the full boost runs and monitor.
I was a bit disappointed by the initial results of E85, which produced.....
495bhp / 530lbft at the HUBS
This resulted in circa 18bhp increase over the previous VPower runs. I was certainly expecting a lot more based on what others had experienced...... but in reality this engine was now producing a tad under 500bhp at the HUBS, which is nothing to be sniffed at, when considering it is still using a standard fit/position turbo! I am not aware of any other 2.5ltr Subaru on a standard fit turbo that has achieved figures like that on a HUB Dyno.
Unfortunately that disappointment was nothing compared to what I was about to get!!
Richard tried another run after changing ignition / boost and the inevitable happened..... the water system pressurised and blew most of the water out of the expansion tank.
After re-filling the coolant system and ensuring that it was free of any airlocks, Richard tried again.... the same results.
It was game over!!!
The IMMEDIATE conversation that followed was........
"Right! That's it then. You need to pull the engine and get them Headgaskets changed!!"
No need for tears as I knew exactly what issue could arise as soon as Richard had posed the initial question on my arrival.
So there we have it! After almost 10k miles of abuse on the road/track/dyno, the engine saw it's first real problem. Not great news by any means, but something we hoped would be easy to remedy..... and let's be honest, when you abuse an engine what this had been subjected to in nearly 10k miles, you can not expect 15k oil change intervals and 100% reliability for 100k miles.
**** happens.
Just for info to add to the mix and give you some contextural information on what the engine has being delt.
The engine has had the following life since being built and placed in the car, early 2007.
ScoobyLive event x 2
TOTB event x 1
Santa Pod Strip (standing starts in total at ALL venues - circa 30 with launch control)
Snetterton (open pit lane full day)
Donnington (sessions one full day and afternoon)
Rockingham (sessions 2 days)
Castle Coombe (two sessions)
400+ power runs on various dyno's.
Constant map changes.
Circa 500bhp for most of it's life, sustaining 2bar+ (peak) for the majority of miles, tested at 2.5bar as well.
So.... the next stage of this evolution was about to begin all over again.
Last edited by Shaun; 14 May 2009 at 09:37 PM.
19 May 2009, 09:44 PM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
February 2009 - Engine Strip Down and Inspection
Due to work loads at Tracktive the engine removal and strip down did not start until February. This gave plenty of thoughts to how this was going to be approached and what I may do whilst the engine was out of the car.
Initially, as it was thought that it was a headgasket issue it would be a simple heads off, check, prep surfaces on block and heads and replace gaskets..... job done! Things took a different turn though.
Anyway... engine was taken out of the car and the heads were removed. On initial inspection the headgasket failure was confirmed (no surprise there then) and more to the point, on visual inspection the standard 257 block integrity looked fine, with no det showing on the pistons either. Whilst the engine needed cleaning properly and close inspection made, all looked very good so far.
I'm sure that some of you will be thinking, "500bhp through a standard 257 block casing and liners.... I can't believe it stayed together!!".... well believe it! To be honest, I am not the only person who has been able to prove that the 257 block is not perhaps as "pony" as some may lead to believe (if you believe all the horror storys around). Sure, they can have their problems (perhaps headgaskets letting go are one of the inherent weaknesses), but I truly believe that if the engine is prepped, built and mapped well that will certainly stand you in good stead.
For the uninformed, this engine was a standard 2.5ltr case (with some extra machining done), standard liners with Cosworth internals. Engine was prepped and built by Cosworth. Car had been running 500bhp for most of it's (at that point) 9500 miles, which was pushed to 2.5bar boost (which realistically would of been the cause of the headgaskets failure).
Although it was not totally required (and this is where things changed slightly), I agreed with Tracktive that I wanted them to perform a TOTAL strip down of the complete engine. I was interested in what wear and tear had happened during it's life and what if anything else should be replaced. This was more a precautionary thing than a must have. Piece of mind for me really, as I knew what I wanted to get the car ready for..... and that was more of the same power wise, coupled with some hard use on track!!
I was now looking to enter the car in the ScoobySprint Championship!!
Once the engine was completely stripped, everything was inspected and measured.
The only items that needed replacing were the Headgaskets (obviously) and the bigend bearings (crank), which had very slight pick-up and could of stayed in but it was decided to change them since the engine was split. It looked like debris from the previous turbine failure had contaminated the oil ever so slightly.
All piston rings were "mint" with nice shiny edges to bore. Richard said that ring to bore fit had been extremely good. Regardless of ring condition, it was also decided to replace these as well.
Suffice to say that the block was fine and apart from needed a clean-up and prep, it would be used again. Just to underline, that if there had been anything wrong with the block (beyond reliable repair) it would of been skipped.
All in all, very good news.
Due to work loads at Tracktive the engine removal and strip down did not start until February. This gave plenty of thoughts to how this was going to be approached and what I may do whilst the engine was out of the car.
Initially, as it was thought that it was a headgasket issue it would be a simple heads off, check, prep surfaces on block and heads and replace gaskets..... job done! Things took a different turn though.
Anyway... engine was taken out of the car and the heads were removed. On initial inspection the headgasket failure was confirmed (no surprise there then) and more to the point, on visual inspection the standard 257 block integrity looked fine, with no det showing on the pistons either. Whilst the engine needed cleaning properly and close inspection made, all looked very good so far.
I'm sure that some of you will be thinking, "500bhp through a standard 257 block casing and liners.... I can't believe it stayed together!!".... well believe it! To be honest, I am not the only person who has been able to prove that the 257 block is not perhaps as "pony" as some may lead to believe (if you believe all the horror storys around). Sure, they can have their problems (perhaps headgaskets letting go are one of the inherent weaknesses), but I truly believe that if the engine is prepped, built and mapped well that will certainly stand you in good stead.
For the uninformed, this engine was a standard 2.5ltr case (with some extra machining done), standard liners with Cosworth internals. Engine was prepped and built by Cosworth. Car had been running 500bhp for most of it's (at that point) 9500 miles, which was pushed to 2.5bar boost (which realistically would of been the cause of the headgaskets failure).
Although it was not totally required (and this is where things changed slightly), I agreed with Tracktive that I wanted them to perform a TOTAL strip down of the complete engine. I was interested in what wear and tear had happened during it's life and what if anything else should be replaced. This was more a precautionary thing than a must have. Piece of mind for me really, as I knew what I wanted to get the car ready for..... and that was more of the same power wise, coupled with some hard use on track!!
I was now looking to enter the car in the ScoobySprint Championship!!
Once the engine was completely stripped, everything was inspected and measured.
The only items that needed replacing were the Headgaskets (obviously) and the bigend bearings (crank), which had very slight pick-up and could of stayed in but it was decided to change them since the engine was split. It looked like debris from the previous turbine failure had contaminated the oil ever so slightly.
All piston rings were "mint" with nice shiny edges to bore. Richard said that ring to bore fit had been extremely good. Regardless of ring condition, it was also decided to replace these as well.
Suffice to say that the block was fine and apart from needed a clean-up and prep, it would be used again. Just to underline, that if there had been anything wrong with the block (beyond reliable repair) it would of been skipped.
All in all, very good news.
19 May 2009, 10:39 PM
#22
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
March 2009 - Rebuild Process
Due to issues with having parts sent from the US and also delays in having the block and heads prepped at the machine shop, this part of the project took a bit longer than expected.
Through the whole of this project I had always kept Iain Litchfield (Litchfield Imports) updated on progress, especially since Iain had been an integral part to the whole project process from day one. Iain was very interested in how the build would advance... especially when he knew what was being planned.
Suffice to say that Litchfield Imports supplied most of the parts for the rebuild (yeah... I did have to pay for them!!!), sourcing them from Cosworth.
So... what was the plan?!
HeadGaskets
The original headgaskets used were the Cometic ones that Cosworth supplied. These were now being changed in favour of the new Cosworth STOPPER headgaskets. These provide an extra band around the cylinder tops, which provide a better seal and clamp around the cylinders..... ideal for combating headgasket failure, or so the theory goes.
Head Bolts
Whilst the original head bolts were of the Cosworth variety, Cosworth had recently launched better High Performance - High Tensile - High Torque (any more "High"?) head bolts. The idea behind these is that you can apply more torque to the bolts when torquing the head down, which is theory will provide a better overall head to block seal. Again helping against headgasket failure. When stripping the engine down, Richard did state that the head bolts were not as tight as expected, so it was possible that the heads lifted (during the high boost runs) and stretched the bolts, causing a potential headgasket failure.
Bearings
Both small and big end bearings were changed to original build spec with Cosworth bearings.
Piston Rings
Changed to original build spec with Cosworth piston rings.
Valvetrain
Heads were stripped/checked/rebuilt with original valves lapped back in.
Heads and Block
Cylinders were cleaned up, along with block face and head faces cleaned and prepped (skimmed/decked). The block was also line bored for the crank, as Richard mentioned that there was slight wear on the bearings on one side as if the crank was not sitting true. This was corrected for the rebuild.
I think that tops off the rebuild side of things.... oh, apart from one small extra. The compression ratio was to be altered!!
Why?!
Well, if you up the compression ratio you should be able to gain an increase in engine response and theoretically power should be attainable at less boost and ignition. This was something that Tracktive had wanted to try for a while on a high powered Subaru.... so now was the time.
The standard compression ratio (cr) is around 8.1:1 (if you are lucky) and this engine was going to be raised to over 9.1:1. Whilst the theory was sound, we had no idea whether the higher compression would compromise BHP on plain old VPower (with higher compression, using higher octane fuel is were the real advantages can be, but this can also affect what is achievable on lower octane fuels). Richard was confident and I was game for trying it!
So... the rebuild was finished!
Due to issues with having parts sent from the US and also delays in having the block and heads prepped at the machine shop, this part of the project took a bit longer than expected.
Through the whole of this project I had always kept Iain Litchfield (Litchfield Imports) updated on progress, especially since Iain had been an integral part to the whole project process from day one. Iain was very interested in how the build would advance... especially when he knew what was being planned.
Suffice to say that Litchfield Imports supplied most of the parts for the rebuild (yeah... I did have to pay for them!!!), sourcing them from Cosworth.
So... what was the plan?!
HeadGaskets
The original headgaskets used were the Cometic ones that Cosworth supplied. These were now being changed in favour of the new Cosworth STOPPER headgaskets. These provide an extra band around the cylinder tops, which provide a better seal and clamp around the cylinders..... ideal for combating headgasket failure, or so the theory goes.
Head Bolts
Whilst the original head bolts were of the Cosworth variety, Cosworth had recently launched better High Performance - High Tensile - High Torque (any more "High"?) head bolts. The idea behind these is that you can apply more torque to the bolts when torquing the head down, which is theory will provide a better overall head to block seal. Again helping against headgasket failure. When stripping the engine down, Richard did state that the head bolts were not as tight as expected, so it was possible that the heads lifted (during the high boost runs) and stretched the bolts, causing a potential headgasket failure.
Bearings
Both small and big end bearings were changed to original build spec with Cosworth bearings.
Piston Rings
Changed to original build spec with Cosworth piston rings.
Valvetrain
Heads were stripped/checked/rebuilt with original valves lapped back in.
Heads and Block
Cylinders were cleaned up, along with block face and head faces cleaned and prepped (skimmed/decked). The block was also line bored for the crank, as Richard mentioned that there was slight wear on the bearings on one side as if the crank was not sitting true. This was corrected for the rebuild.
I think that tops off the rebuild side of things.... oh, apart from one small extra. The compression ratio was to be altered!!
Why?!
Well, if you up the compression ratio you should be able to gain an increase in engine response and theoretically power should be attainable at less boost and ignition. This was something that Tracktive had wanted to try for a while on a high powered Subaru.... so now was the time.
The standard compression ratio (cr) is around 8.1:1 (if you are lucky) and this engine was going to be raised to over 9.1:1. Whilst the theory was sound, we had no idea whether the higher compression would compromise BHP on plain old VPower (with higher compression, using higher octane fuel is were the real advantages can be, but this can also affect what is achievable on lower octane fuels). Richard was confident and I was game for trying it!
So... the rebuild was finished!
20 May 2009, 08:56 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
APRIL 2009 - FINAL SPEC OF CAR
Car
2003 Spec C in White in full "sleeper" shopping mode trim.
Engine
Tracktive Built 2.5L - High Compression - Cosworth Blue Printed tall engine, comprising of:
Subaru EJ25 STI Engine Case
Subaru STI Forged Crankshaft
Cosworth STOPPER Head Gaskets
Cosworth Forged Connecting Rods
Cosworth Forged Pistons
Cosworth High Performance Piston Rings
Cosworth Race Spec coated Tri-Metal Bearings
Cosworth Oil Pump
Cosworth High Tensile Head Bolts
Cosworth CNC Ported Heads
4 Angle Inlet Valve job
3 Angle & radiused Exhaust Valve job
Back-cut Inlet Valves
+1mm Stainless Steel Intake Valves
Performance Valve Springs
Titanium Retainers
Hardened Steel Spring Platforms
Knife Edge port divider
Cosworth Race Cams
Inlet Manifold Spacers
1150cc Injectors x 4
Hyperflow Monster FMIC
Hyperflow Oil Breather System
Turbosmart re-circ Dumpvalve
3 Port Boost Solenoid
Hyperflow inner wing induction kit with Tracktive Induction Scoop
PowerStation WRC baffled sump
Oil Cooler
External Bosch 044 fuel pump with Swirl Pot with aeroquip fittings
AET drop in GT30 turbo with uprated actuator
Spec C headers with custom Tracktive twin to single scroll up-pipe (wrapped)
MILTEK 3 inch Exhaust System
HYDRA ECU with Launch Control, Anti-Lag, switchable fuel maps and Flat Gear Shifting
Cusco Twin Plate Clutch
API Lightened Flywheel
Parallel Fuel Rails
Large inlet hose
Handling
AST Competition Remote 3-way adjustable Suspension / top mounts
Whiteline rear ARB & anti-dive kit
Wheels
18 inch PFF
18 inch Speedline Corse
T1-R's 225x40x18
R888's 225x40x18
Interior/Exterior
STi Aero Kit (front and rear bumper spats) & STi High Level Rear Spolier
Mudflaps all round
Defi STi Gauges (Oil Temp, Oil Pressure & Boost)
HYDRA ECU Control Panel (Switchable fuel maps, High/Low Boost, Anti-Lag)
Shift Light
Yeah... I know I am teasing a bit, but I am waiting until I get copies of the dyno graphs. It will be worth the wait!!!
Car
2003 Spec C in White in full "sleeper" shopping mode trim.
Engine
Tracktive Built 2.5L - High Compression - Cosworth Blue Printed tall engine, comprising of:
Subaru EJ25 STI Engine Case
Subaru STI Forged Crankshaft
Cosworth STOPPER Head Gaskets
Cosworth Forged Connecting Rods
Cosworth Forged Pistons
Cosworth High Performance Piston Rings
Cosworth Race Spec coated Tri-Metal Bearings
Cosworth Oil Pump
Cosworth High Tensile Head Bolts
Cosworth CNC Ported Heads
4 Angle Inlet Valve job
3 Angle & radiused Exhaust Valve job
Back-cut Inlet Valves
+1mm Stainless Steel Intake Valves
Performance Valve Springs
Titanium Retainers
Hardened Steel Spring Platforms
Knife Edge port divider
Cosworth Race Cams
Inlet Manifold Spacers
1150cc Injectors x 4
Hyperflow Monster FMIC
Hyperflow Oil Breather System
Turbosmart re-circ Dumpvalve
3 Port Boost Solenoid
Hyperflow inner wing induction kit with Tracktive Induction Scoop
PowerStation WRC baffled sump
Oil Cooler
External Bosch 044 fuel pump with Swirl Pot with aeroquip fittings
AET drop in GT30 turbo with uprated actuator
Spec C headers with custom Tracktive twin to single scroll up-pipe (wrapped)
MILTEK 3 inch Exhaust System
HYDRA ECU with Launch Control, Anti-Lag, switchable fuel maps and Flat Gear Shifting
Cusco Twin Plate Clutch
API Lightened Flywheel
Parallel Fuel Rails
Large inlet hose
Handling
AST Competition Remote 3-way adjustable Suspension / top mounts
Whiteline rear ARB & anti-dive kit
Wheels
18 inch PFF
18 inch Speedline Corse
T1-R's 225x40x18
R888's 225x40x18
Interior/Exterior
STi Aero Kit (front and rear bumper spats) & STi High Level Rear Spolier
Mudflaps all round
Defi STi Gauges (Oil Temp, Oil Pressure & Boost)
HYDRA ECU Control Panel (Switchable fuel maps, High/Low Boost, Anti-Lag)
Shift Light
Yeah... I know I am teasing a bit, but I am waiting until I get copies of the dyno graphs. It will be worth the wait!!!
20 May 2009, 10:34 PM
#30
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Engine Bay
HYDRA In-Car ECU Control Panel
Picture of car prior to stickers removed and windows tinted - taken as part of magazine shoot
HYDRA In-Car ECU Control Panel
Picture of car prior to stickers removed and windows tinted - taken as part of magazine shoot
Last edited by Shaun; 20 May 2009 at 10:35 PM.