147_TS

So to cut it short - moving to capital city with no parking space, very narrow streets in historic centre and many traffic jams. I'm driving a BMW 525xdT dinosaur. Need something smaller, more agile, just as quick or quicker. And i need help

1) Rear seats a must, the one behind driver should take an adult (i'm 175cm, that's about 5ft 9in?) and there must be some boot space
2) Don't care about number of doors
3) Must be a quick car
4) Must be a NEW car, not used
5) Price limit is roughly 40.000 Eur (36.000 GBP)
6) Lower insurance than 525xd (insurance here is based on engine size and car value, not power, so 2 litre turbo with 300hp is cheaper to insure than 3 litre with 200hp)
7) Affordable running costs - decent service intervals (current 525xd is once per year or 20k kilometres), affordable spare parts and servicing, average fuel consumption around 23-25mpg (should be able to handle 400km/250miles relaxed highway trip on a single tank), i don't care about depreciation
8) Should be a suitable DAILY DRIVER!

Was looking around and found some candidates:

Mini Cooper JCW - just perfect, but rear seats seem to be made for someone without legs? Can anyone confirm? Also lacking a proper boot space.

Civic Type-R - love the looks, seems spacious inside, but underpowered on paper? I know numbers aren't everything, thus why i'm asking. Lack of turbo makes future tuning a bit more difficult. Also heard some stories about sloppy interior quality - regular rattles, which are further highlighted by firm ride.

Leon Cupra R - nice outside, horrible inside. Haven't seen cheaper looking interior in a long while. Also most reviews claim that fuel consumption for regular Leon Cupra is just horrible, yet they praise Golf Mk5 GTI/Audi S3 with almost identical engine for being frugal. Where is the truth?

Golf Mk6 GTI - seems great as a whole package, if not a bit underpowered, but nothing a mild tuning cannot fix. Apparently it's very dull to drive though? Not to mention i have certain aversion towards anything VAG, this includes Cupra above.

New Megane RS (250hp) - handling of Renaultsports is famous, but there are rumours about French cars and reliability, mainly electronic nibles. True or pub talk?

Impreza WRX STI - can get a decent price on this, but is the maintenance really that expensive? Fuel, break pads and all those consumables.

Alfa Brera 3.2 Q4 or 2.4JTD - always liked this, long time Alfa fan and former owner. But rear seats apparently lack leg room and the car feels a bit slow and heavy? Can't deny that it's an emotional choice, as most Alfas

BMW 130i - can get a good price on this in exchange for my current 525xd, seems rather rapid, but insurance won't be much lower due to big engine and i'm not sure about the goofy looks. Then there's 123d, but tbh, i'm scared to hell of so much torque on rear wheels in such a short car

The list is rather varied i know, and you probably think i don't know what i want when i mix Coopers, Alfas, Subarus and BMWs. But all those cars seem rapid compared to 525d, they are smaller and cheaper. And i don't mind different approach to driving different cars. I'm not THAT picky and can pretty much adapt to any car characteristics, as long as it can cast a grin on my face when thrashing it during weekend. In any case, I'm open to other suggestions or user's experience

Matteeboy

I'd shortlist the 4WD STI and the RWD 130i. If running costs matter, the 123d is VERY good on fuel, very quick and has very low emissions. And it's properly quick. I had a 120d as a courtesy car (I have a 335d Touring) and was very impressed - lovely handling and nicely screwed together.

I have a vicious hatred of the Brera -yes it's pretty but dire to drive and weighs far too much. The 3.2 will guzzle fuel and the 2.4JTD engine is quite simply crap.

I think the rest will feel cheap and nasty compared to the BMW you have (apart from the Golf) and the FWD will annoy you.

nisr227

A bit confused on how you can buy New but tune it too, unless you want to invalidate warranty?

Others could be Audi S3 or new Scirroco R (but you don't like VAG), Focus ST or RS, or CTR Champ White (with LSD) but are they still too big? or Clio 200 Cup (voted best drivers small car by evo).

Anyway, if you want to tune, many you've mentioned have all sorts of options/packages from specialist tuners, including the CTR who can do wonders with them (like a refined S/C) so being N/A shouldn't be overlooked.

But at £38k (slightly above your budget), I'd go for something very very special from Litchfield or be it expensive...... Impreza Sti Type 20 (Hatchback)...very very fast with warranty. http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/s...asp?shopmenu=2 Problem is MPG and insurance need to be looked into!...................in fact forget that, it will cost to run it.

147_TS

There are certain mods which either do not invalidate warranty in this country or dealerships never look at them. I'm planning to install a custom exhaust manifold and cat-back system as a first mod. Second is getting some better air-filter or such to help the engine breath. After those two are done, i'm getting a custom ECU to take advantage of these mods. Then some light-weight wheels, suspension and maybe breaks, depends how good breaks does the new car have. These are mods which majority of dealerships overlook over here, or they don't mind them, and they do not have very negative effect on running costs. Once the warranty expires, i might take on some more intrusive stuff like s/c if its NA engine, or bigger turbo if its turbocharged already depending on my available cash and whether i will need to consider running costs in 3 years time, or whether i will just ignore it and go ahead. For now i have other expenses, so must take it slowly with car to not get some money sinkhole. And no, none of the cars you mentioned are too big, they are just the right size i'm looking for. Should be somewhere around regular hatchback size, give or take. But Clio is perhaps a bit too small I still need rear seats that could accomodate an adult, and at least some usable boot space. Also i can't imagine driving for 300 miles in a tiny car like Clio. I still consider myself young, yet nearing 30 and i'm starting to like at least some comfort for my soon-old bum

In regards of S3 or Roc R... those things are so overpriced it's not funny. Sure they are fast, but i'm not paying that price for cramped VW or its rebadged cousin. For the price of decently equipped S3 without satnav i can buy 2 new CTRs in base spec, or buy one and modify it to hell. I was seriously considering Golf R20 when i first heard of it, i was willing to submit to the VAG, but after the pricing has been announced, i made up my mind If i could get decently equipped Golf with R engine and FWD for around 30.000 GBP, i might be in. For 40.000? Not so much. That's 130i territory which is miles away both with engine and with driving fun.

Focus RS is all sold out here by now, we only got 5 cars for our country, because Ford decided that country with 5-million people doesn't have big enough market for more RS's. Would have to look for some imported one, but can't do that for accounting reasons. Focus ST is decent and very spacious, but i can't stand the interior. It might be of good quality, but i hate just looking at it and its layout. Even Impreza, Civic or Renaults are better off, at least for my taste, not to offend any Focus owners.

CTR Champ White... not sure... i'm not a fan of white colour on CTR, so would prefer Black or Red regular CTR and then just get LSD from Mugen or somewhere. I have seen quite a few aftermarket LSDs for CTR which were not even that expensive.

In respect of Impreza - i'm not from UK, so don't have access to these special models, only stock WRX STI. And as mentioned before, Impreza STI's running costs are scaring me a bit. I'm not sure i can afford that at the moment.

_Tim_

Where are you from?

147_TS

Slovakia. Just don't come here to save on insurance please You would soon be running away anyway.

_Tim_

AHOJ! Lots of Slovakians round here - but they tend to drive £500 ****ters and don't bother with insurance.

Sounds like you're looking for something modification-friendly. Hard to beat a Scoob for that, it has to be said (although I got very bored with mine very quickly).

147_TS

Cool, you even remember how to say "hello"

And yes i know about the cheapskates. I have lived in UK for 5 years during my uni studies and was rather embarassed with the behaviour of most of my countrymen i encountered It's not even that different back at home, many people are driving cars in desolate condition or without insurance, but government is slowly cracking down on them. Luckily most of the turds are just uneducated people who came to UK thinking they will earn big cash, and do not reflect the mentality of a regular person from Slovakia. Talk about the damage communism can deal

nisr227

How can you plan what mods you going to do without even knowing the car yet?....each one will prefer different ways of tuning surely?

Re an LSD on a CTR, awesome! Makes the world of difference, drove my mates with a Quaife ATB LSD on his EP3 CTR and you can really feel it digging in out of corners. They are about £650 here in the UK but its about £300 fitting. Combined with a Kpro remap to drop the vtec cut in much lower and a geometry realignment its a completely different car, the same for the new model.

Tuned right they can be awesome, just check out the rave reviews and how fast the new UK Mugen is, don't let the lower power figure (compared to turboed cars like the RS) put you off. Only problems with CTR's is you'll either love the thrashing, or you don't, I love them even coming from a tuned turbo car before.

147_TS

I don't need to know my car to "plan" the basic mods. I have always installed those "basic" mods on all my previous cars, bar my current coal burner (which has at least uprated brakes and a remap). I haven't owned/seen a single car where a custom exhaust system, bigger brakes or better suspension would have a negative effect on performance or handling. Naturally i'm not ordering the parts already, i can't do that until i have my car. I wouldn't even call it a plan. It's just something i usually do with all my cars if they are worth it and i intend to keep them for longer.

Anyway, so far i'm leaning either towards a cheaper CTR with some basic mods right away at the beginning and s/c after warranty is gone, but i'm not sure i will be patient enough to wait for warranty to expire It's 3 years or something, seems like eternity. Or 130i/123d if i can get a decent price on those and slowly upgrade that one as i save money. Bimmers seem much faster in stock form. And even after warranty is gone on CTR, apparently it torque-steers like crazy when supercharged. RWD is free of that trouble. And then there is still that Megane RS 250, can't get if off my mind. Also FWD, but at least has some trick diff like Revo Knuckle to reduce torque steer. Quite a few owners of R26 are jumping the ship after 1-2 years of ownership though, which raises some doubts about reliability, not sure if this is imporved with new gen Meganes.

Sometimes i feel like a woman shopping for shoes. So many hot hatches, yet none is perfect. Would just buy them all and drive different one each day. I think i should buy a lottery ticket

ScoobyDoo555

Golf R? Should get a basic one for about that?

The Golf (imho) isn't a dull drive - certainly not to be confused with the mk3 or 4!!!

The mk6 is a *little* bit more refined than the mk5.

The Cupra is a great car, but personally I can't stand the interior

The Audi S3 again, is a nice car, but imho, IS dull to drive - especially after my S4. I test drove the S3 back-to-back with the GTI, and well, the golf won hands down.
The S3 was quicker in a straight line, but BORING in the bends.
Obviously, in wet weather, probably a different matter, as grip would be better with 4wd

Just my 2p

Dan

woollyg

Hi everyone, thought I would jump into this forum as I dont know how to start a new thread yet.
I'm considering a new well almost new 2007 Impreza 1.5 hatchback, does anyone know if the interior cabin space
is smaller than the saloon Impreza ? I'm 6ft 4 and my kids need to be able to sit behind me.

Thanks for any input

zip106

That was some Googling ..... a 7 year old thread...

Littleted

Have the JCW Coupe at the moment, but just PXed it for my next chariot. you are right about the rear seats, don't get me wrong you can get 4 adults in but only if your drive with the steering wheel in ya face, this was one of the reason i eventually decided on a new one.

The wife has the Clubman S, which is by far a better built more lux car, and i do know now they have the JCW version which also benefits from 4wd, speed wise the JCW is fast and fun, if you compare the 231bhp JCW to the Wifes 191 Cooper S there worlds apart, much more angry aggressive throttle etc.

The coupe JCW is not a bad price think all in with Service plan and a few extras mine was 23k, as opposed to the Clubman of the wifes that's was nearer 29k but was near fully loaded.

I did look at the Civic also, nice car that always like Civics, but Hondas PCP deals were pants when i was looking.

How about the new 140i or 240i, pretty impressive against the M2 and 10k cheaper ( obviously wont hold its price as well though), just a pity the don't do any kind of Xdrive variant in the new 40i engine yet!!!....



good luck

Uncle Creepy

Littleted, what's your next chariot?

Littleted

440i with Mperformace Kit with Exhaust..which takes it to 360bhp.

like this Creepy, not everyones favorite, but ticked the boxes for me, and great to drive, just wish they did Xdrive in it but not in the RHD yet

http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1244896

exhaust sound

Uncle Creepy

Nice!