theboy

Well after a truely wonderful 10k miles in my A45 its time for a new set of fronts, i dont think ive done too bad considering the power these cars are running. Got price for new P-Zeros £122 each which i thought was ok.

Does this mileage & cost seem about right?

Peedee

iTrader: (4)

What size?

theboy

235 35 19s i think off the top of my head

Shaun

Don't bother with anything other than Michelin Pilot Super Sports.

alistair

My advice would be never to mix - stick with what you already have, or replace all 4

I did it years ago & all is fine until you approach the limit - then one set breaks away whilst the other set still have grip - which unsurprisingly causes the car to behave in an extreme way.

I would never do it again

RS Grant

Agree with all of this.

Funnily enough it was a set of P-Zeros that I had fitted to my first Impreza, replaced two with Eagle F1s and, depending on the amount of traffic near me, it was dangerous/comical in damp conditions.. the back was beyond loose on the P-Zeros. I fitted two more Eagle F1s and the problem went away instantly.

I also agree that MPSS are the tyre of choice at the moment, so I'd be ordering up a set of four and punt the remaining worn tyres on Gumtree/eBay.


Cheers,
Grant

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I don't rate P-zeros. Rubbish in the damp/wet.

Shaun

Dynamically there is nothing wrong with mixing tyres between front and rear axle, however, you need to be aware of what you're doing and the effect it will have.

Since the A45 is predominantly FWD, having a gripper tyre on the front and something that breaks away a bit at the rear wouldn't be a bad thing...... if you want the rear to be a bit more active.

It depends on what type of dynamics you're looking for imo.

alistair

WTF - Dynamically there is everything wrong with mixing tyres - because as you state - it will change the dynamics of the car......

The real problem is that it will make the car behave inconsistently depending on grip levels.

It doesn't just make the car a bit more oversteer biassed - so you can be super macho. The car has less grip overall as power is directed to the wheels without grip.

So you can give me whatever macho bull**** you like about how how you like more oversteer, but I'm not for listening.

I had had a blowout & thought I was doing the sensible thing changing both tyres on the same axle - but they were not the same as the other 2.

I took it on a on a driving day on the wet handling circuit at MIRA - and was called The Wetter the Better with Don Palmer and ex-webmaster here Simon De Banke - both of whom were pretty handy drivers.

After the first lap, Don got out to check the tyres as he was convinced the rears were bald - he thought the car was verging on dangerously undrivable.

Both front & rear tyres had >6mm of tread.

We tried swapping them front to rear and the car was still as useless.

We even swapped a couple from another car that were the same as 2 of mine & the handling was fine - the car was OK, but missing tyres wasn't.

Both Simon & Don drove my car - in all 3 configurations and whilst they could control it, neither thought it was in any way safe with anything other than matching tyres.

The conclusion - was that my car was useless & I became a passenger for the day - Don gave me a place on another of his courses at a significant discount.

So having conducted this 'experiment' in a controlled environment, with highly capable drivers - there is no way on earth you will convince me that mixed tyres are a good idea.

zip106

P-zero corsa on my car - superb in both the wet and dry.
Super sports on the M3 - **** in the wet, but I think that's more the car than the tyre...
(Just changed the rears after 15k miles!)

alistair

I did a quick search - SDB made a reference to mixing tyres in this thread which references our little MIRA experiment -

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...oversteer.html

plenty

iTrader: (13)

I note that the linked thread is more than 15 years old and that Simon de Banke comments that "S-02s are stunningly grippy tyres..." - Bridgestone S-02s are totally outdated by today's standards.

I do not doubt the veracity of this story, but the only way that I can rationalise it is that you must have mixed tyre models of a previous era and of a massively different level of performance. Something that would be difficult to replicate today unless you fitted Michelin PSS or Toyo R888 to one axle and Linglongs to the other.

Mixing tyre brands/models of a roughly comparable tier you will never make the car "dangerously undrivable" as you claim...you might have a slight difference when pushing on which can be compensated for via your driving style, but for most people most of the time the difference will be undetectable. In fact, common tweaks such as changing tyre pressures or suspension settings (for example anti-roll bar stiffness) will have an equal if not great effect to mixing tyres.

alistair

It was a long time ago - and I agree that tyre technology has moved on a good way, as has traction control and other aids.

The tyres were a pair of Bridgestone S01's and a pair of S02's.

The environment on the MIRA wet handling circuit is fairly extreme - and I meant dangerously undriveable there - I drove there and back perfectly well and had been running them for a month or so before that - so I agree that for the vast majority of situations, you will notice no difference.

However, you never know when your going to hit the limit.

I strongly disagree that it makes no difference - you're just not trying hard enough to have noticed it

Shaun was also saying that it made a difference - albeit one that he wanted....

I would never do it again - because I would always have that nagging doubt - even though I drive (slightly) slower these days and usually in a Range Rover, I would still never mix my tyres.

I also run winter tyres - and that's a whole different debate.....

Just my 2 cents worth - take it or leave it - if you feel confident with mixed tyres, then go for it.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

You could extend this debate to mixing old and new tyres of the same make and model.

With 2WD (or part time AWD, like the A45) cars, the driven wheels always outlast the others and on some low mile/gently driven/weekend cars the non-driven tyres can be on the car for many years if not rotated. Certain models and brand are very prone to hardening and perishing with age to the point its visible after only a few years; If the rubber is starting to crack (after just two years in some cases), then the compound has obviously deteriorated and so the tyre's grip properties will be different to a brand new tyre of the same make...again most noticeble in wet, damp and cold conditons.

I'm showing my age here now but I vividly recall the problem I had with my XR3 when I fitted a brand new Pirelli P600 to the passenger side front and had a older P600 of unknown age on the driver's side. The damn thing would just drift to the right under hard acceleration...even with correctional steering! Pretty scary at the time as you don't really want a car to make a bee-line for oncoming traffic every time you give it some beans. Of course a new matching tyre on the drivers side instantly cured the problem.

I'm not a fan of mixing tyres though; My Monaro was originally delivered with Conti-sports on the passenger side an P-zero Rossos on the driver's side. That was not fun. Put both the Rossos on the rear as they had the most tread and it didn't make it it much better with the rear end behaving like a slippery eel at any hint of damp. Put the Conti-sports on the back and the rear end start to behave a bit better, problem was now the damn thing would understeer.

My R32 had mixed tyres too, and that didn't seem to make much difference unless really using it hard and turning off the ESP. The ESP on these is very intrusive on these in that it tends to restricts power before it tells the Haldex to do its thing, but I did find that the more slippery tyres on the front (Pirellis again ), did seem to make it was to send more power to the rear axle when the ESP was off. So there was understeer off-power, but oversteer on-power, which meant it was predictable. Problem was overall braking was affected with the ABS intruding far more than I would like during daily driving. Fresh set of PS3s all round certainly made a big improvement to wet/damp braking, and importantly a steer-to-avoid emergency manoeuvre certainly got me out of the s**t not long after I replaced them - I just know I wouldn't have have been able to change direction like that with the old/mixed tyres.

One more point though...mixed batches of the same tyre...anyone check the date stamp code when they have new tyres to see if they get a set made during the same week? I do That's probably OTT though LOL.

And another thought; Faulty/ internal tyre damage/deformation. I know our BMW has a duff tyre on the rear. Looks fine, matching set...but it has a internal structural deformity thats felt at 15-20mph. In short...pothole damage is the likely curlprit (the wheel aren't bent, tyres are balanced). How does that affect outright handling? Can't say its noticeable in the handling department, but what about on the limits of grip?

Devildog

http://www.blackcircles.com/catalogu...&tyre=27150806