Shaun

To get the best from RWD you need to be able to exploit it..... that's not most people.

I've had a 500+bhp RS500, so am well too aware of talent needed to have "fun". I'll put my hand up and say I didn't have such talent..... not that I couldn't have stuck at it and gained the experience, but it simply wasn't for me.

It's alright saying that RWD gets you that focussed pure driving experience, but we're not all after that. What is fun to one person, maybe different to a n other persons interpretation of it.

Personally I want something that is sure footed and will handle whatever I do to the loud pedal (within reason), in a stable and confident manner. 4WD/AWD gives me that.

There is every point to AWD, as much as there is to RWD or FWD. It's horses for courses, which can be down to the individual as much as anything else.

john banks

Not crashed RWD, and not against it with modest power, just much prefer a good AWD setup that doesn't corrupt the steering when there is a big turbocharged engine involved and in this case there is a lot of propulsion and neutralisation that torque to the front wheels can offer. When I have driven RWD in the wet, I don't find it exciting, just surprisingly wayward at relatively low accelerative forces. It is frustrating enough waiting for the front end of the GTR to straighten up before you can go WOT in the wet, driving an Audi that should be less fun I actually find more fun because it deploys torque much more cleanly, but without ploughing into understeer. I suspect more modest powered RWD cars would feel less frustrating than the GTR in the wet because they have more sensibly sized tyres and don't put as much power to the rear.

In the same way you perceive me to be anti RWD, I perceive you to consider AWD almost as bad as FWD, but that is why there is a choice in the market. We're evangelists for different teams. I don't see you converting me to 500+ BHP RWD any time soon, given where I live and the competency/stability/performance I enjoy from AWD. It isn't like I want to go sideways out of junctions at half throttle in the wet for fun.

R500 is lightweight, GT86 doesn't have much power, P1 has competitors that are AWD. The only 458 test I saw in the rain suggested it was struggling somewhat.

Matteeboy

Well to me, a good RWD car just feels "right" in a way that's hard to define. And if you do overcook it, your front wheels are trying to do two jobs at once.

I'm no race driver; just a little extra training. Maybe you all floor it out of every bend? Maybe you prefer an on/off style of driving?

Yep I've had a few "wahheyy" moments but nothing to worry about; 95% of the time it's just understeer-free, fun driving in a small RWD car with a big engine; the two main ingredients to enjoyment in my eyes.

A tuned-to-death little engine with 4wd just lacks appeal.

Shaun

Apart from the odd squirt, my days of driving fast on our UK roads are long gone.

These kinds of cars can reach 100mph without breaking a sweat, so unless you're on a track or doing something illegal, I can't quite understand how the benefit of RWD vs any other drive comes into it tbh.

I can get a real buzz from going down twisty B road at 60mph, just because my Scoob is so torquey, extremely directional and agile. I can't see RWD giving me any more of a buzz.

john banks

I prefer a tuned large engine with AWD. These engines just melt tyres on RWD.

A good AWD system will IMHO tend to slight oversteer without threatening to spin. It does this by looking at steering angle, raw rate, throttle position, vehicle speed but will avoid overpowering the front tyres.

None of my AWD cars since the Subaru understeer where a RWD also wouldn't understeer.

With the Audi, in the wet, with about the same power going to the back wheels as the M135i, you can drive it on/off style, and to me that is impressive. The GTR which depending on speed and slip puts much more to the back wheels requires balancing throttle with steering lock unwind in the wet, but it doesn't understeer like you seem to fear it might. In the dry, the GTR is the best of all worlds, Audi in the wet.

Matteeboy

Mine is extremely torquey (peaks at 1300rpm too), agile and probably "directional" if I knew what that meant. And most certainly understeers less (if at all). But it'll also powerslide, oversteer and get all playful if the conditions allow. It's three dimensional driving as opposed to two.

Shaun

I get hardly any understeer in mine. Castor has been increased to 6degs, so I get camber when I need it... on turn in and through the turn.

I have driven a hatch STI for instance, and that understeers much more imo. But even that doesn't detract from it's driveability.

If I want to play with the diff adjustments I can do, whilst it's not like the older Type R diff, it still makes a difference in torque split.

When I say directional, I mean the car happily changes direction very quickly. It can be very "pointy", which if you're not used to that kind of sharp direction change, may need some getting used to. Small inputs to steering make a big difference. The quick rack helps with that.... something I'm aware is similar on the M135i.

At the end of the day none of this is about what is the best, it's about what one person finds more pleasing than a n other. It's all very subjective, unless you're taking it from a pure drivers perspective and/or comparing lap times. For a road car (imo) of this type, it has to be about fun. Fun can mean so many things to so many people.

Matteeboy

Agree with that!

urban

iTrader: (1)

Yep, I changed marques last year and bought a V8 AMG merc.
I went through two sets of tyres in 8K - and I thought I was behaving to a degree.

lozgti1

bugger me.638 posts about a knackered ladies waitrose shopping car