Subaru Discussion Forums

Go Back   ScoobyNet > Community > Non Scooby Related
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Non Scooby Related Anything Non-Scooby related

Welcome to ScoobyNet.com!
Subaru forum
Welcome to the ScoobyNet.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18 November 2005, 12:16   #1
tonybooth
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: In Faecorum Semper Solum Profundum Variat
Posts: 2,334
Send a message via MSN to tonybooth Send a message via Skype™ to tonybooth
Default Driving a SORN'd Vehicle - Implications

I am due to pick up a car that I have bought tomorrow that is currently declared SORN by the current registered keeper. I asked him to tax it for me but as he no longer has it insured that isn't an option.

I will have it insured but won't get the insurance documents until early next week. I need to drive it back from Surrey to Leeds. I reckon if I get stopped the worst that could result is being made to pay back tax. Surely the circumstances are genuine enough that they wouldn't clamp me on the M1

These SORN things along with other silly rules for VIC checks and number plate purchases have no effect on the criminals but just make life more awkward for the masses.

TONY
tonybooth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 12:24   #2
ozzy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 10,505
Default

The worst that can happen is the Police refer you to the DVLA for no tax. The Police/DVLA will most likely accept your story as long as you can prove there was no gap in the SORN/tax. If they wanted to be @rsey, the DVLA could fine you 40 and ask you to pay the back-dated tax. If you don't pay the fine it would double to 80.
ozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 12:26   #3
TelBoy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,938
Send a message via MSN to TelBoy Send a message via Yahoo to TelBoy
Default

According to the form you get though, they mention a 5,000 fine, no??
TelBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 12:36   #4
ozzy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 10,505
Default

That's the maximum fine and would depend on how long they saw a tax gap. The tricky part would be proving it hadn't been driven during the SORN period.
ozzy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:26   #5
Dr Hu
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,491
Default

Quote:
drive it back from Surrey to Leeds
Easy - just don't drive on any roads that may have ANPR on them - i.e motorways & Dual carriageways mainly....best keep off A roads too, B roads may be tricky, best keep to the back lanes.......its not far......

LOL - it is a biatch all this rules about SORN, and the biggest biatch will be when they introduce the no insurance clause too (coming v soon!) - you cannot have a vehicle uninsured at any time.....as a classic car owner that is a real b4stard!
Dr Hu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:33   #6
TelBoy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,938
Send a message via MSN to TelBoy Send a message via Yahoo to TelBoy
Default

Really??? What's the logic behind THAT little gem of legislation..??
TelBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:36   #7
stevencotton
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: behind twin turbos
Posts: 2,710
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TelBoy
Really??? What's the logic behind THAT little gem of legislation..??
As motorists we are guilty until proven innocent!
stevencotton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:39   #8
TelBoy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,938
Send a message via MSN to TelBoy Send a message via Yahoo to TelBoy
Default

But seriously, if i have a classic car declared SORN, why won't it remain MY choice whether to insure it or not? I don't understand.
TelBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:42   #9
PG
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Perthshire
Posts: 6,397
Default

got any mates with a garage ? Get a shot of their trade plates ?
PG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:47   #10
Scooby-Doo
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: X5 and MCS JCW country....London :)
Posts: 2,223
Default

Book it in to your local MOT station then I believe you can drive it to that station.
Scooby-Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 13:57   #11
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby-Doo
Book it in to your local MOT station then I believe you can drive it to that station.
Correct! I used to use this ruse regularly from Tilbury/Southampton docks; itll **** off an Police officers that you encounter but the law doesnt limit the distance that you may travel.

Tel; a gentleman of your means wont be affected by the proposed legislation because it doesnt affect vehicles that are parked in your detached six car garage!


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 14:00   #12
TelBoy
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: God's promised land
Posts: 80,938
Send a message via MSN to TelBoy Send a message via Yahoo to TelBoy
Default

LOL, so what ARE the rules then? If it's on private property you're exempt?
TelBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 14:04   #13
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

My understanding, is that if the vehicle is parked on closed private property, a garage or a drivaway for example, then it neednt be insured. Leaving the unused vehicle uninsured but taxed on the highway will be verboten.
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 14:16   #14
TopBanana
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,780
Default

Put some fake plates on it and camoflague it
TopBanana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 14:18   #15
Milamber
ESC Oil Burning Division

 
Milamber's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: England
Posts: 18,455
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

Isn't "the worst that will happen" that car your car will get crushed?
Milamber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 15:31   #16
lucylastic
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybooth
I will have it insured but won't get the insurance documents until early next week. I need to drive it back from Surrey to Leeds. I reckon if I get stopped the worst that could result is being made to pay back tax. Surely the circumstances are genuine enough that they wouldn't clamp me on the M1

TONY
Your insurance company can send you a covernote by courier and have it to you this afternoon (presuming you're not in Lands End and they in John O'Groates).
lucylastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 15:59   #17
scoobyster
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Sheffield / North Wales
Posts: 1,163
Default

My flatmate's new insurers didn't send him a certificate, they provided a pdf file for him to print his own, the PO were happy with this when he went for tax. It looked like it had been knocked up in Word in about 2 mins, which is another idea
scoobyster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 16:11   #18
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

The DVLA prohibit the use of downloadable certificates for taxing cars. I did wonder whether GPOs knew/cared though...

Does anyone know whether Post Offices refer to the ABI Insurance data base? The reason I ask is that insurers have 14 days to add your details and if they do itll be nearly impossible to insure this car...


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 18:28   #19
CrisPDuk
Scooby Regular
 
CrisPDuk's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: The Cheshire end of the emasculated Cat & Fiddle
Posts: 9,369
Send a message via Yahoo to CrisPDuk Send a message via Skype™ to CrisPDuk
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GC8
My understanding, is that if the vehicle is parked on closed private property, a garage or a drivaway for example, then it neednt be insured. Leaving the unused vehicle uninsured but taxed on the highway will be verboten.
It is currently, and always has been AFAIK, illegal to park an uninsured vehicle on the public highway, so in what way is the proposed new legislation different?
CrisPDuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 19:18   #20
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

I used to think that too; but apparently it wasnt illegal to keep the vehicle on the highway as long as it had an excise license. Ive read a similar editorial in two seperate magazines so Im confident that theyre correct.


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 19:22   #21
dexter
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 412
Default

It`s illegal to keep a vehicle on a road if it`s not insured, and it`s also illegal to keep it on a road without a current tax disc.
dexter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 20:01   #22
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

""using a vehicle on a road or other public place without third party insurance" as required by Section 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988" Quoted from the DfT website

Keeping and Using are distinctly different.

Read the proposal here


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 23:18   #23
Dr Hu
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jul 1999
Posts: 2,491
Default

Quote:
We propose to introduce legislation making it an offence to be the registered keeper of a vehicle the use of which is not insured in accordance with section 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988. Such an offence would not require the police to prove that the vehicle was in use on the road. Subject to certain exemptions, the possession of a vehicle without valid insurance would be an offence. Liability would rest with the keeper of the vehicle.
hmmmm - dont like the sound of the 'an offence would not require the police to prove that the vehicle was in use on the road' bit...one could interpret that in a few ways.....
Dr Hu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 23:31   #24
ChrisB
Moderator
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: Staffs
Posts: 23,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GC8
The DVLA prohibit the use of downloadable certificates for taxing cars. I did wonder whether GPOs knew/cared though...

Does anyone know whether Post Offices refer to the ABI Insurance data base? The reason I ask is that insurers have 14 days to add your details and if they do itll be nearly impossible to insure this car...


Simon
I'd also wonder if PO counter staff could tell the difference between a good colour print of a PDF and what turns up in the post...
ChrisB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 November 2005, 23:33   #25
sti-04!!
Scooby Senior
 
sti-04!!'s Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Passing ...............
Posts: 13,317
Default

At minimum wage i dont think they would care
sti-04!! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 01:24   #26
hades
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: From Kent to Gloucestershire to Berkshire
Posts: 2,905
Default

These days, most 2nd hand car dealers sell cars without tax. In many cases, people will go and pick up the car with an insurance cover note (any decent company will get you a cover note next day) and then drive it to the post office to get the tax. If you have the receipt, the cover note, etc and can show you've just bought the car and are heading to a post office, I'd think you'll have to be very unlucky for them to nick you. What's to stop you getting a cover note and picking up tax somewhere near where you buy the car?

The PO will pick up that it's SORN'ed but won't prevent you getting a new tax disk - in the same way, many cars where the dealer cashes in the tax disk before selling it on will show as already having tax. That doesn't stop them from issuing a new tax disk.
hades is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 10:14   #27
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisB
I'd also wonder if PO counter staff could tell the difference between a good colour print of a PDF and what turns up in the post...
Im thinking along the same lines Chris; the problem lies with the register. If the Post Office staff refer to this (as the VRO staff do) then the vehicles wont appear to be insured.

Im already caught in a Catch-22 with the local VRO. My motor trade insurance certificate is downloaded so the certificate cant be used to register cars and the vehicles wont/cant appear on the insurance because they dont have a registered number.....


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 12:51   #28
CrisPDuk
Scooby Regular
 
CrisPDuk's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: The Cheshire end of the emasculated Cat & Fiddle
Posts: 9,369
Send a message via Yahoo to CrisPDuk Send a message via Skype™ to CrisPDuk
Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by GC8
I used to think that too; but apparently it wasnt illegal to keep the vehicle on the highway as long as it had an excise license. Ive read a similar editorial in two seperate magazines so Im confident that theyre correct.


Simon
As the recipient 10 years ago of an IN10 (6 points & 150) for having an engineless car on the road outside my parents house taxed but uninsured, I can assure you that this is not the case


Incidentally, my mistrust of the Police and Courts stems from this occassion too. When the police came to my parent's door to ascertain the status of the car, they stated that they had recieved a complaint from a neighbour (the car had been there less than 12hrs by this point), They informed me that if I moved the car within 24hrs I could go down to the station, receive a police caution and thatr would be the end of it. No problem, moved the car, got the caution, carried on with my life. Four months later I received a registered letter saying that a date for my magistrates court appearance, with respect to driving a car whilst un-inisured, had been set for the following week Long story short, I turned up, the prosecution lied, the magistrates believed I was guilty from the moment I stepped into the box, I came away 150 lighter, but far wiser Unfortunately, none of my subsequent personal encounters with either establishment has removed this mistrust, merely reinforced it
CrisPDuk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 12:59   #29
GC8
On the Edge~In the Hedge!

 
GC8's Avatar
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sheffield; Rome of the North
Posts: 17,575
This is my Scooby.  To set up your own Scooby, go to your user cp, and click 'Edit Settings'.
Default

Im not really sure how to reply to that. Youre arguing that youre correct based on what happened, but its apparent that you were prosecuted when you hadnt broken the law.

The lesson to be learnt there; is that under no circumstances do you speak under caution and always elect to go for jury trial.


Simon
GC8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 14:19   #30
Leslie
Scooby Regular
 
Trader Score: (0)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 39,892
Send a message via ICQ to Leslie
Default

Yes I think insuranced was only needed if it was driven. But parked on the public roads needs Tax.

Les
Leslie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19 November 2005, 14:19
 
 
 
Reply

Tags
car, drive, driving, dvla, fine, guilty, innocent, motor, proved, rules, sorn, sorned, trader, vehicle, whilst


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:32.


Important - Opinions expressed are not necessarily the opinions of ScoobyNet or any individuals directly or indirectly involved in this website or the companies and individuals associated with it. No responsibility is taken or assumed for any comments or statements made on this or any associated or relating bulletin board. Your personal information will be kept private except to comply with applicable laws or valid legal reasons.
Email Backups