scoobs

Hope you guys/girls can help with this one.

Mate of mine as just had an accident on it Bike. It goes like this:

Trafic que on his side of the road, so he was travelling about 15mph past the que, remaining on his side of the middle line.

Houses to his left with drives leading onto the road. Lady wanting to get out of her drive and travel in the opposite direction to our bike. She is flashed by a car trvelling in the other direction, indicating that she can pull ou in front of her. At which point my mate passes on front of her driveway and he hits her front ofside wing. He's ok, but the question is.

Who is at fault???

Any help on this appreciated.

Scoobs

Luke

Nightmare.... Same thing happend to me last year... I was the car driver. But it never made it to court etc.. He tried an Insurance scam and I got him!!! He is now black listed. Still not sure about who was wrong??

Sheepsplitter

Technically she was joining the road and pulled out in front of your mate. Your mate was already on the road and travelling along it.
The person who flashed her doesn't count as that is really just a 'nothing' signal, that the highway code says you should not use/take notice of(in fact if you do use a flash signal or follow one during your driving test you fail). She interpreted the flash as 'your OK to come out', but it's not up to the driver of the other car to make that decision. Although your mate may have run into her, she put herself in the position and really caused the accident by following an illegal signal and not checking for herself. If this happened to a police vehicle they would almost certainly prosecute her for driving without due care and attention.
If your mate gets his insurers to utilize their legal people, your mate should not have a problem claiming from her.
Tell him good luck.

NeilT

I had a few near misses doing just this during my 10 years worth of biking, IMHO the women is at fault, driving without due care and attention - assuming the bike was riding on his side of the white line.

The problem of course is proving he was riding within his lane. Witnesses may help...

Hope he wasnt badly injured...

Neil

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

Scoobs

Couple of things.

Your m8 may have a bit of contrib negligence to this incident as he was overtaking the queue of traffic.

Lady was coming out of a driveway, which is good. Onus is on her to proceed safely out. If it had been a side road, then your m8 would've had to have been taking more care, & hence a greater % of liability.

I have twice been knocked off by people u-eing through traffic & not seeing me Most of the incidents involving our couriers have been eventually proven (or taken) to be the other parties fault, 'cept the turning right out of a junction, when it's about a 50-50 blame.

Witnesses help & if on a bike, its always an idea to insist on an ambulance, even if you aren't badly hurt. Ambulance means police & forms & therefore proof etc. Just sit in the middle of the road & wait. Also helps in the case of ensuring other party is legal etc. 1st guy that did me got nicked for Due Care & Attention + Bald Tyre & No MOT, so its worthwhile.

Dazzler

I had a similar situation a couple of years back. Guy pulling out from a road on the left, wanting to head in the opposite direction. I was filtering much the same as you when this guy pulled out without looking properly.

The only difference was that he hit me so it proved I was easily in his field of vision, ie, I was in front of the car at the time.

The claim went through without problems thankfully.

Jon1T

Puff - filtering is a bit of a grey area, given that Police bikers also do it - if the biker was not exceeding the speed limit and was excerising reasonable care and attention when overtaking stationary traffic the car driver is solely at fault I would have thought - she should still have looked for any oncoming traffic before pulling out - being flashed means nothing. I don't think the biker would be found to be negligent also unless he was speeding, weaving in and out of traffic etc.....

Always an interesting one, but after communting on bikes into the City for 3 years, bikers do stupid stuff - but car drivers often don't pay attention.

Puff The Magic Wagon!

iTrader: (2)

JonIT

It is a grey area but at the end of the day, you are overtaking a line of stationary or slow moving traffic. Therefore there is an onus on you to take reasonable care.

It could be construed that the woman turning right couldn't reasonably expect to have a bike (or indeed any other vehicle) overtaking the stationary traffic that she was coming through and the oncoming traffic had clearly given way.

Chappy on the bike put himself in a position that someone else might not expect to find someone, hence the negligence (or culpability) that contributed to the accident. He was taking a risk.

If it was a case of the rider being made a paraplegic & damages were sought & it went to the high court, then it is likely that the sum claimed would be reduced by a factor to reflect this on the award. Luckily thats not the case here & the woman's insurance will likely cough as it costs them less in the long-term.

carl

I think it is a plus point in his favour that he was overtaking the line of traffic and not undertaking it

David Lock

IMHO the main fault lies with the guy that flashed as whatever the "book" says it is generally accepted that in those sort of circumstances that is an all clear to proceed signal. If you flash then you have be be 110% sure that it is clear and I would have thought that he should have looked for a bike passing traffic as your mate was. I personally never trust a "flash it's clear" sign unless I have checked it out myself. David

Jodster

Highway code specifically says to double check for motorcyclists when pulling out of a junction. Even if cars are stationary, she should have looked and not relied on someone flashing her out. Driving without care would seem appropriate.

"I was filtering down the outside of a stationary queue of traffic when someone pulled out of a side turning, through the queueing traffic without looking properly and knocked me off". Clean cut case, I would have thought.

Hopefully your mate wasn't going too fast and hasn't been badly injured.

SWRTWannabe

Take a slightly different situation - instead of the traffic queue, imagine there was just a parked car. Your mate is quite entitled to overtake the parked car and if he had been hit then by the woman pulling out of her drive, then she would definitely be at fault.

So, the fact that all the cars were stationary in a queue doesn't really change things, I would have thought.

carl

Yes, but imagine the cars were going faster. The motorcyclist would be in the wrong if he overtook a queue of cars moving at 45mph and then hit the one pulling out, as he shouldn't have overtaken on a road with side-turnings.

Mungo

The bike was on the road and had right of way, the car he hit was joining it and should have checked it was clear to join the road. It wasn't clear and she is at fault, unlees she can prove that the bike was riding illegally - too fast, wrong side of solid white line etc.
The issue of the guy flashing is largely irrelevant. It clearly states in the Highway Code that the flashing of headlights has only one meaning - it warns another road-user of your presence (same as sounding your horn).

DavidRB

The flashing is totally irrelevant. According to section 91 of the Highway Code:

"If another driver flashes his headlights never assume that it is a signal to go. Use your own judgement and proceed carefully."

A court of law will ignore the car driver's statement that someone else flashed her to go. The issue comes down to whether it can be proven that the bike rider had taken all reasonable care and precautions when overtaking a line of stationary traffic.

David Lock

The flashing is totally irrelevant from a legal/technical point of view but the fact remains that if a car flashes then many people - for right or wrong - take that as a signal that it is "clear" to go or they are letting you in - you know what I mean. I have sometimes flashed an emergency vehicle to let them through or whatever; this is the reality of on the road. So I still think that the car driver carries some moral responsibility for what he did. If the woman chose to accept the signal than she is also at fault - she shouldn't have proceeded unless she could herself see it was clear; legally she is the guilty party. David

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

She pulled out, the biker hit her as she tried to make a manouver, she was at fault due to the fact she was coming onto the main road and the biker was already passing slow/stationary traffic on his side of the road at a sensible speed and she should have moved out very slowly into traffic, looking all the time for bikes etc.

Tony

PS, hope your mates ok!

DominicA

i always thought flashing your lights really meant "look i am here" not "you're okay to pass" etc...

DavidRB

David Lock: I know what you mean, but I'm trying to put forward the legal viewpoint. It's all about "paying no attention to signals given by unauthorised road users". I disagree that the flashing ( ) driver carries any blame. The driver who flashed was only giving consent to the woman to pull in front of him, not to pull right across the road. He is in no position to give that authority and it's the woman's fault for thinking he could.

Sadly, I suspect that once lawyers get a sniff of this one, you'll find that people will be able to sue because someone flashed their headlights inappropriately.

NotoriousREV

It is perfectly reasonable to overtake slower traffic as long as you don't have to exceed the speed limit or cross a solid white line. There is no law that says you can't overtake where there are side roads, but clearly it's advisable to be aware of the side roads and any traffic eminating from them.

When she was pulling out, she should have been checking her way was clear, which it wasn't, therefore she was driving without due care and attention.

Ipso facto, ergo, bonio, mange tout, yer honour.

Steve Howat

I get this kind of situation every day at the moment thanks to the roadworks near my work. I overtake queued traffic and there's always someone trying to pull out into the opposite direction of traffic from a side road. You just adapt your riding to suit and expect it.

That said, in the eyes of the law definately the womans fault, not the bike or the guy signalling (though certain blame should go on that other driver for signalling and creating an accident by his actions).

One other thing though... The Biker saw the guy flashing but didn't expect what happened next . Doesn't say much for his road awareness...

BOB.T

That would be one hell of a pile up! I think I'd sit on my drive for a moment or two, regardless of whether or not there's a bike coming

Anyhoo, IMHO, the woman is in the wrong, a flash means " I'm here" and won't be seen as anything else in court so the bloke who flashed isn't to blame either..... in fact that makes the woman double guilty.... hang her! Good job I'm not in the legal proffession isn't it!

Seriously though, I hope all involved are ok, specially the biker

Bob