NHS Is on its knees...Ive seen it.
29 November 2016, 08:47 PM
#1
NHS Is on its knees...Ive seen it.
Well folks I have seen the beginning of the end of this great service..
Cut a long story short , I had to take my daughter into A and E at Salford Royal on Monday. My wife had taken her to Fairfield Hospital in Bury the week before and they had done their usual trick of sending her home with Codeine tablets as the answer. She suffers with IIH which is basically high pressure of the fluid in her skull which should normally drain away on its own naturally.18 months ago she lost over 50% of her vision due to this not being treated quickly enough and now has no peripheral vision and can see only a small area directly in front of her. She eventually had a shunt fitted to remedy the fluid build up, but unfortunately started again with the headaches which is the main sign of a problem.
Anyway got to Salford at 1115 am.
Saw Triage at 1300 hrs.
Called back in for blood tests at 1400.
Saw doctor at 1515.
X-Rays at 1600.
Sat in a cubical until it was needed for another patient . Then sat in the corridor until gone 2000 pm.
Finally got her in a ward at 2015 ,from 1115 that morning .
The level of numbers in the waiting room did not drop below 50 people all day. I know this as I had to keep going out to feed the parking meter via the A and E entrance.
The corridors all afternoon where rammed, double stacked with trolleys with people on waiting for treatment. Old folk being sick and left on their own with porters literally bumping their way through with other patient's as it was that busy and crowded.
I wondered why the corridor's where filled with Ambulance crew and after speaking to a nurse she informed me they have to stay with the patient they bring in until they have been handed over officially to a nurse /doctor in the hospital. They are not allowed back to their job on the road until this has been done which is why another patient ,70 odd yrs old ,who was in there had had to wait 2 hours for an ambulance after collapsing at home with just his frail old wife with him who could not lift him back up off the floor.
Just thought I would give you my experience which absolutely shocked me to see. I have to say the treatment from all the nurses etc was first class if not slow through no fault of their own. They all remained calm and carried on as though this was everyday normal to them so my hat goes off to the staff at Salford but my word ,this cannot continue the way it is. I don't know how they do it but the service is stretched to the limits.
Hope its not too long winded but I thought it was worth sharing as we all expect this service to be available as and when we need it but to me its not far off saturation point.......
Cut a long story short , I had to take my daughter into A and E at Salford Royal on Monday. My wife had taken her to Fairfield Hospital in Bury the week before and they had done their usual trick of sending her home with Codeine tablets as the answer. She suffers with IIH which is basically high pressure of the fluid in her skull which should normally drain away on its own naturally.18 months ago she lost over 50% of her vision due to this not being treated quickly enough and now has no peripheral vision and can see only a small area directly in front of her. She eventually had a shunt fitted to remedy the fluid build up, but unfortunately started again with the headaches which is the main sign of a problem.
Anyway got to Salford at 1115 am.
Saw Triage at 1300 hrs.
Called back in for blood tests at 1400.
Saw doctor at 1515.
X-Rays at 1600.
Sat in a cubical until it was needed for another patient . Then sat in the corridor until gone 2000 pm.
Finally got her in a ward at 2015 ,from 1115 that morning .
The level of numbers in the waiting room did not drop below 50 people all day. I know this as I had to keep going out to feed the parking meter via the A and E entrance.
The corridors all afternoon where rammed, double stacked with trolleys with people on waiting for treatment. Old folk being sick and left on their own with porters literally bumping their way through with other patient's as it was that busy and crowded.
I wondered why the corridor's where filled with Ambulance crew and after speaking to a nurse she informed me they have to stay with the patient they bring in until they have been handed over officially to a nurse /doctor in the hospital. They are not allowed back to their job on the road until this has been done which is why another patient ,70 odd yrs old ,who was in there had had to wait 2 hours for an ambulance after collapsing at home with just his frail old wife with him who could not lift him back up off the floor.
Just thought I would give you my experience which absolutely shocked me to see. I have to say the treatment from all the nurses etc was first class if not slow through no fault of their own. They all remained calm and carried on as though this was everyday normal to them so my hat goes off to the staff at Salford but my word ,this cannot continue the way it is. I don't know how they do it but the service is stretched to the limits.
Hope its not too long winded but I thought it was worth sharing as we all expect this service to be available as and when we need it but to me its not far off saturation point.......
29 November 2016, 09:00 PM
#2
Scooby Regular
Well folks I have seen the beginning of the end of this great service..
Cut a long story short , I had to take my daughter into A and E at Salford Royal on Monday. My wife had taken her to Fairfield Hospital in Bury the week before and they had done their usual trick of sending her home with Codeine tablets as the answer. She suffers with IIH which is basically high pressure of the fluid in her skull which should normally drain away on its own naturally.18 months ago she lost over 50% of her vision due to this not being treated quickly enough and now has no peripheral vision and can see only a small area directly in front of her. She eventually had a shunt fitted to remedy the fluid build up, but unfortunately started again with the headaches which is the main sign of a problem.
Anyway got to Salford at 1115 am.
Saw Triage at 1300 hrs.
Called back in for blood tests at 1400.
Saw doctor at 1515.
X-Rays at 1600.
Sat in a cubical until it was needed for another patient . Then sat in the corridor until gone 2000 pm.
Finally got her in a ward at 2015 ,from 1115 that morning .
The level of numbers in the waiting room did not drop below 50 people all day. I know this as I had to keep going out to feed the parking meter via the A and E entrance.
The corridors all afternoon where rammed, double stacked with trolleys with people on waiting for treatment. Old folk being sick and left on their own with porters literally bumping their way through with other patient's as it was that busy and crowded.
I wondered why the corridor's where filled with Ambulance crew and after speaking to a nurse she informed me they have to stay with the patient they bring in until they have been handed over officially to a nurse /doctor in the hospital. They are not allowed back to their job on the road until this has been done which is why another patient ,70 odd yrs old ,who was in there had had to wait 2 hours for an ambulance after collapsing at home with just his frail old wife with him who could not lift him back up off the floor.
Just thought I would give you my experience which absolutely shocked me to see. I have to say the treatment from all the nurses etc was first class if not slow through no fault of their own. They all remained calm and carried on as though this was everyday normal to them so my hat goes off to the staff at Salford but my word ,this cannot continue the way it is. I don't know how they do it but the service is stretched to the limits.
Hope its not too long winded but I thought it was worth sharing as we all expect this service to be available as and when we need it but to me its not far off saturation point.......
Cut a long story short , I had to take my daughter into A and E at Salford Royal on Monday. My wife had taken her to Fairfield Hospital in Bury the week before and they had done their usual trick of sending her home with Codeine tablets as the answer. She suffers with IIH which is basically high pressure of the fluid in her skull which should normally drain away on its own naturally.18 months ago she lost over 50% of her vision due to this not being treated quickly enough and now has no peripheral vision and can see only a small area directly in front of her. She eventually had a shunt fitted to remedy the fluid build up, but unfortunately started again with the headaches which is the main sign of a problem.
Anyway got to Salford at 1115 am.
Saw Triage at 1300 hrs.
Called back in for blood tests at 1400.
Saw doctor at 1515.
X-Rays at 1600.
Sat in a cubical until it was needed for another patient . Then sat in the corridor until gone 2000 pm.
Finally got her in a ward at 2015 ,from 1115 that morning .
The level of numbers in the waiting room did not drop below 50 people all day. I know this as I had to keep going out to feed the parking meter via the A and E entrance.
The corridors all afternoon where rammed, double stacked with trolleys with people on waiting for treatment. Old folk being sick and left on their own with porters literally bumping their way through with other patient's as it was that busy and crowded.
I wondered why the corridor's where filled with Ambulance crew and after speaking to a nurse she informed me they have to stay with the patient they bring in until they have been handed over officially to a nurse /doctor in the hospital. They are not allowed back to their job on the road until this has been done which is why another patient ,70 odd yrs old ,who was in there had had to wait 2 hours for an ambulance after collapsing at home with just his frail old wife with him who could not lift him back up off the floor.
Just thought I would give you my experience which absolutely shocked me to see. I have to say the treatment from all the nurses etc was first class if not slow through no fault of their own. They all remained calm and carried on as though this was everyday normal to them so my hat goes off to the staff at Salford but my word ,this cannot continue the way it is. I don't know how they do it but the service is stretched to the limits.
Hope its not too long winded but I thought it was worth sharing as we all expect this service to be available as and when we need it but to me its not far off saturation point.......
It's gotta be a funding thing and I can't see how money can keep being funneled away from where it is needed. The NHS is in a state and I'm not sure the reasons behind it.
Is it too much immigration sucking up resources and overcrowding?
A super aged country with not enough funding to cope with the levels of aged people needing services?
Not enough taxation in place to cover the standard needs?
A lack of staff, through funding being redirected to other services?
Here in the US I hate how much it costs but the service you receive really is amazing. Should we have some kind of hybrid of that in the UK? Surely, without further funding, we will be unable to keep a 'free' NHS going.
29 November 2016, 10:04 PM
#4
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I'm pretty sure the whole recent hours / j clark dispute was just the openers for attempting to squeeze more out of the system
because no gov is going to ask for more cash from you or I ( when anybody /everbody realises its the only way fwd)
because no gov is going to ask for more cash from you or I ( when anybody /everbody realises its the only way fwd)
30 November 2016, 01:23 AM
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To the OP. Sorry to hear about your gal but I am surprised that you seem to know so little about the current state of the NHS. Surely you have a friend or relative who has experienced similar? It's appalling. The NHS can be very inefficient and wasteful but hospitals need more beds to take people in, more doctors along with more nurses and more support care outside to get shot of the bed blockers. I think getting more beds is achievable but finding a few thousand doctors takes time. And many simply bugger off to Australia or elsewhere as the NHS stress and low pay to start with is s,hit. Writing off uni fees as a starter would help.
I don't think the public would rebel against a 1 or 2p tax rise if they could see it actually going into the health service. My personal view would be to stop HS2 and use that money to help.
David
I don't think the public would rebel against a 1 or 2p tax rise if they could see it actually going into the health service. My personal view would be to stop HS2 and use that money to help.
David
Last edited by David Lock; 30 November 2016 at 01:25 AM.
30 November 2016, 01:30 AM
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30 November 2016, 07:40 AM
#7
All over the BBC news this morning about this very subject. 46000 hours lost by Ambulance service waiting to hand over patients and then failing to meet response time targets....
Health tourists don't help but no one has managed this as yet, wastefulness,paying £10 for a light bulb change, overpaying grossly for medical supplies,nobody seems to deal with the nitty gritty fundamental issues . I can only put it down to poor management. Sad state of affairs ,and I'm not sure it can be fixed...
Health tourists don't help but no one has managed this as yet, wastefulness,paying £10 for a light bulb change, overpaying grossly for medical supplies,nobody seems to deal with the nitty gritty fundamental issues . I can only put it down to poor management. Sad state of affairs ,and I'm not sure it can be fixed...
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30 November 2016, 07:48 AM
#8
Scooby Senior
30 November 2016, 08:07 AM
#9
Coincidence but the BBC are running an article about this subject on the TV news this morning. I personally haven't been to AandE in 6 years and I believe that people should go when it is genuinely an energency/very serious. My partners sister-in-law is a massive worrier and she'd clog up the AandE deptartment with a sprained wrist- I expect there's hundreds of thousands of people like her who go to AandE when not necessary.
30 November 2016, 08:07 AM
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Sorry to hear about your daughter, hope she's ok 
It always seems to me that the ratio of 'management' vs front line staff (nurses/doctors) is a little off, I would love to know what it truly is. The £10 to change a light bulb is more than likely not far from the truth, unfortunately it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was a 'manager' in charge of light bulbs, with several assistants to boot
It always seems to me that the ratio of 'management' vs front line staff (nurses/doctors) is a little off, I would love to know what it truly is. The £10 to change a light bulb is more than likely not far from the truth, unfortunately
it wouldn't surprise me in the least if there was a 'manager' in charge of light bulbs, with several assistants to boot
30 November 2016, 08:07 AM
#11
Well, my recent experiences have left me with nothing but admiration for our NHS.
Problems?
Of course...an ageing population, more births, more h&s surrounding births, health tourists, people jumping the queues by going private, but mostly an increasing population trying to use the same resources that were OK for millions less, plus more and more expensive tests available and used.
And yes, I'd pay more tax, gladly, but ONLY if it were ring fenced.
Problems?
Of course...an ageing population, more births, more h&s surrounding births, health tourists, people jumping the queues by going private, but mostly an increasing population trying to use the same resources that were OK for millions less, plus more and more expensive tests available and used.
And yes, I'd pay more tax, gladly, but ONLY if it were ring fenced.
30 November 2016, 09:15 AM
#12
Some areas of the nhs are brilliant, others are cack.
From personal experience I have it has not been brilliant. About 5 years ago I suffered a collapsed lung. I ended up in hospital for a month.
I was taken to a local hospital, where I had a couple of drains put in and put on suction. My lung lining was too punctured to re inflate, so was referred to Guys in London.
The referral was done by email, nobody bothered to open and read the email for a week.
While waiting at my local hospital, I was able to get out of bed and walk around, used to sit in the park for a bit, one of the male nurses in the respiratory ward I was in used to come out on his 5 min tea brake and chain smoke about five ****. But the hospital would still ring my missus and ask if she had seen me cos I had gone missing.
Went up to London for surgery, had my lung lining scrapped so it would stick to the outer lining and stay inflated, and the top of my lung removed and stapled.
The lung lining was so bad, it was like trying to staple cellophane, so wasn't getting any better.
I was given exercises to inflate the lung, a peddle box I had to peddle while sitting in the bedside chair, while the suction was turned up to full, which feels like someone trying to pull your lungs through your rib cage.
One of the drain tubes hadn't been put in correctly, and every time I peddled blood would spurt out of my side, over the chair and the floor. I spoke to a doctor who looked and said it was fine. My consultant saw me a few days later and agreed it wasn't fine and re stitched the tube.
The blood that I spilt was still over the chair and floor a week later, when I was discharged.
One of the nurses that came in had snot dripping from her nose where she had a cold. The ward was full of cases like mine, lung cancer, pneumonia etc.
I would ask for a cardboard p!ss pot and nursing staff would forget to bring it. I had a cannula in my hand, attached to a syringe drive providing constant morphine. This came detached and spilling everywhere, again asked a nurse to sort but after a few hours decided I didn't need it any longer so removed myself.
I was discharged, but my lung had not reinflated so left hospital with a portable lung bag.
I was given a leaflet explaining that I couldn't lift anything heavier than a kettle. They happily sent me out with a rucksack full of clothes, and carrier bag full of magazines and stuff and another full to the brim with meds. This was two days earlier than expected because they needed the bed, so met the wife at the door and caught the train back home, 50 mile journey with a portable lung, no seat left on the train and nobody willing to let someone just out of hospital and still not better have a seat, so had to stand most of the way home. We had arranged for a lift home but didn't have time to re arrange.
The meds I was given didn't include any antibiotics, so, naturally I caught an infection a couple of days later, so had to call the doctor out to prescribe antibiotics.
Cut to more recently, my dad was admitted to hospital because he was in pain, and couldn't get out of bed. He had cancer, so just needed pain management.
He was taken into hospital and the doctor said they would keep him in to get the pain under control. He looked very well, laughing and joking, looks healthy enough.
The hospital did not do anything differently regarding pain relief that he wasn't getting at home. It was then suggested that he had an op to put a pin in his leg, which had been discussed some months previously. After the op the physio said he probably wouldn't walk again, so completely pointless operation. His op was put off, every day for a week. Every morning he was told he wasn't allowed anything to eat.
He was discharged after about six weeks. His muscles had deteriorated, and where he was fed **** when he was allowed to eat, had lost his appetite.
He came home a few weeks ago, but went down hill. He was a prime candidate for sepsis, which is what developed, but again he was given no antibiotics. It took the nurses so long to take a blood test, that by the time they found out he had sepsis he could no longer, eat drink or take medication. They said he would have to go back to hospital to have antibiotics by drip, but they probably wouldn't even bother doing it at that stage, so they didn't and he passed away at the weekend just gone.
I'll stop short of saying they killed him, they didn't, he did need to go into hospital, but I believe they certainly sped up the process. Too much time scratching their *****, if they did what they needed to do in the first week, didn't do what was unnecessary and discharged him after a couple of weeks he might still be here.
Apologies for the long winded rant.
From personal experience I have it has not been brilliant. About 5 years ago I suffered a collapsed lung. I ended up in hospital for a month.
I was taken to a local hospital, where I had a couple of drains put in and put on suction. My lung lining was too punctured to re inflate, so was referred to Guys in London.
The referral was done by email, nobody bothered to open and read the email for a week.
While waiting at my local hospital, I was able to get out of bed and walk around, used to sit in the park for a bit, one of the male nurses in the respiratory ward I was in used to come out on his 5 min tea brake and chain smoke about five ****. But the hospital would still ring my missus and ask if she had seen me cos I had gone missing.
Went up to London for surgery, had my lung lining scrapped so it would stick to the outer lining and stay inflated, and the top of my lung removed and stapled.
The lung lining was so bad, it was like trying to staple cellophane, so wasn't getting any better.
I was given exercises to inflate the lung, a peddle box I had to peddle while sitting in the bedside chair, while the suction was turned up to full, which feels like someone trying to pull your lungs through your rib cage.
One of the drain tubes hadn't been put in correctly, and every time I peddled blood would spurt out of my side, over the chair and the floor. I spoke to a doctor who looked and said it was fine. My consultant saw me a few days later and agreed it wasn't fine and re stitched the tube.
The blood that I spilt was still over the chair and floor a week later, when I was discharged.
One of the nurses that came in had snot dripping from her nose where she had a cold. The ward was full of cases like mine, lung cancer, pneumonia etc.
I would ask for a cardboard p!ss pot and nursing staff would forget to bring it. I had a cannula in my hand, attached to a syringe drive providing constant morphine. This came detached and spilling everywhere, again asked a nurse to sort but after a few hours decided I didn't need it any longer so removed myself.
I was discharged, but my lung had not reinflated so left hospital with a portable lung bag.
I was given a leaflet explaining that I couldn't lift anything heavier than a kettle. They happily sent me out with a rucksack full of clothes, and carrier bag full of magazines and stuff and another full to the brim with meds. This was two days earlier than expected because they needed the bed, so met the wife at the door and caught the train back home, 50 mile journey with a portable lung, no seat left on the train and nobody willing to let someone just out of hospital and still not better have a seat, so had to stand most of the way home. We had arranged for a lift home but didn't have time to re arrange.
The meds I was given didn't include any antibiotics, so, naturally I caught an infection a couple of days later, so had to call the doctor out to prescribe antibiotics.
Cut to more recently, my dad was admitted to hospital because he was in pain, and couldn't get out of bed. He had cancer, so just needed pain management.
He was taken into hospital and the doctor said they would keep him in to get the pain under control. He looked very well, laughing and joking, looks healthy enough.
The hospital did not do anything differently regarding pain relief that he wasn't getting at home. It was then suggested that he had an op to put a pin in his leg, which had been discussed some months previously. After the op the physio said he probably wouldn't walk again, so completely pointless operation. His op was put off, every day for a week. Every morning he was told he wasn't allowed anything to eat.
He was discharged after about six weeks. His muscles had deteriorated, and where he was fed **** when he was allowed to eat, had lost his appetite.
He came home a few weeks ago, but went down hill. He was a prime candidate for sepsis, which is what developed, but again he was given no antibiotics. It took the nurses so long to take a blood test, that by the time they found out he had sepsis he could no longer, eat drink or take medication. They said he would have to go back to hospital to have antibiotics by drip, but they probably wouldn't even bother doing it at that stage, so they didn't and he passed away at the weekend just gone.
I'll stop short of saying they killed him, they didn't, he did need to go into hospital, but I believe they certainly sped up the process. Too much time scratching their *****, if they did what they needed to do in the first week, didn't do what was unnecessary and discharged him after a couple of weeks he might still be here.
Apologies for the long winded rant.
Last edited by WRXrowdy; 30 November 2016 at 09:23 AM.
30 November 2016, 09:38 AM
#13
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If you think £10 is bad, I suggest you don't look at what schools are needing to pay.
Last edited by SRSport; 30 November 2016 at 10:24 AM.
30 November 2016, 10:50 AM
#15
Coincidence but the BBC are running an article about this subject on the TV news this morning. I personally haven't been to AandE in 6 years and I believe that people should go when it is genuinely an energency/very serious. My partners sister-in-law is a massive worrier and she'd clog up the AandE deptartment with a sprained wrist- I expect there's hundreds of thousands of people like her who go to AandE when not necessary.
30 November 2016, 12:26 PM
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Coincidence but the BBC are running an article about this subject on the TV news this morning. I personally haven't been to AandE in 6 years and I believe that people should go when it is genuinely an energency/very serious. My partners sister-in-law is a massive worrier and she'd clog up the AandE deptartment with a sprained wrist- I expect there's hundreds of thousands of people like her who go to AandE when not necessary.
1. You'll be fine, go and see your GP if you're overly concerned
2. You can wait BUT you'll probably be at the back of the queue for several hours
Oh yeah theres a 3rd option, be it a little controversial
3. Are you a UK citizen? If not, do you have insurance and/or a credit card?
Last edited by Steve001; 30 November 2016 at 12:33 PM.
30 November 2016, 12:28 PM
#17
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No this is the expert, not me
http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-wan...6-11?r=US&IR=T
Pity you don't understand what a disaster leaving the EU will be. Perhaps a bit too complicated for your type?
dl
30 November 2016, 12:36 PM
#18
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No this is the expert, not me
http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-wan...6-11?r=US&IR=T
Pity you don't understand what a disaster leaving the EU will be. Perhaps a bit too complicated for your type?
dl
http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-wan...6-11?r=US&IR=T
Pity you don't understand what a disaster leaving the EU will be. Perhaps a bit too complicated for your type?
dl
30 November 2016, 12:36 PM
#19
A tenner is cheap, lamp is usually a couple of quid, weee recycling the same, time to turn up, sign in, do permits etc you can easily be there over an hour. Let alone finding where to isolate the power from...
If anyone had any clue about the industry then you can see where the costs come from.
Wrxrowdy it is all about covering ones ****, my mrs and newborn was in hospital for nearly a month and found that the amount of **** covering was what caused significant delays in treatment.
30 November 2016, 12:46 PM
#20
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If you had any idea of the costs involved of a national company, putting a man in a van, fuel, insurance, paperwork, uniform, etc...
A tenner is cheap, lamp is usually a couple of quid, weee recycling the same, time to turn up, sign in, do permits etc you can easily be there over an hour. Let alone finding where to isolate the power from...
If anyone had any clue about the industry then you can see where the costs come from.
Wrxrowdy it is all about covering ones ****, my mrs and newborn was in hospital for nearly a month and found that the amount of **** covering was what caused significant delays in treatment.
A tenner is cheap, lamp is usually a couple of quid, weee recycling the same, time to turn up, sign in, do permits etc you can easily be there over an hour. Let alone finding where to isolate the power from...
If anyone had any clue about the industry then you can see where the costs come from.
Wrxrowdy it is all about covering ones ****, my mrs and newborn was in hospital for nearly a month and found that the amount of **** covering was what caused significant delays in treatment.
30 November 2016, 12:53 PM
#21
Scooby Senior
No this is the expert, not me
http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-wan...6-11?r=US&IR=T
Pity you don't understand what a disaster leaving the EU will be. Perhaps a bit too complicated for your type?
dl
http://uk.businessinsider.com/eu-wan...6-11?r=US&IR=T
Pity you don't understand what a disaster leaving the EU will be. Perhaps a bit too complicated for your type?
dl
30 November 2016, 01:23 PM
#22
I'm sorry but 'people like her' and I don't want to sound harsh, should be given 2 options by the triarge nurse
1. You'll be fine, go and see your GP if you're overly concerned
2. You can wait BUT you'll probably be at the back of the queue for several hours
Oh yeah theres a 3rd option, be it a little controversial
3. Are you a UK citizen? If not, do you have insurance and/or a credit card?
1. You'll be fine, go and see your GP if you're overly concerned
2. You can wait BUT you'll probably be at the back of the queue for several hours
Oh yeah theres a 3rd option, be it a little controversial
3. Are you a UK citizen? If not, do you have insurance and/or a credit card?
30 November 2016, 01:25 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
the modus operandi is quilt clear and well used by politicians
you under invest in an Organisation - over a number of years, then simply say "it is not working we need to radically reform it"
which is shorthand for privatise it
the intellectual underpinning of Brexit (Gove, Fox, David Davis etc) / UKIP are a chronic distaste for the State (the EU is just a bigger version) and its institutions - the NHS being a great example (the BBC will be next)
they hate them, it symbolises everything they despise about the world
these people know the price of everything but the value of nothing
it will be interesting to see if it survives in its current form - obviously it is not perfect, but then again neither was the EU
in world terms it actually deliver pretty good value for money
you under invest in an Organisation - over a number of years, then simply say "it is not working we need to radically reform it"
which is shorthand for privatise it
the intellectual underpinning of Brexit (Gove, Fox, David Davis etc) / UKIP are a chronic distaste for the State (the EU is just a bigger version) and its institutions - the NHS being a great example (the BBC will be next)
they hate them, it symbolises everything they despise about the world
these people know the price of everything but the value of nothing
it will be interesting to see if it survives in its current form - obviously it is not perfect, but then again neither was the EU
in world terms it actually deliver pretty good value for money
30 November 2016, 01:29 PM
#24
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I'm sorry but 'people like her' and I don't want to sound harsh, should be given 2 options by the triarge nurse
1. You'll be fine, go and see your GP if you're overly concerned
2. You can wait BUT you'll probably be at the back of the queue for several hours
Oh yeah theres a 3rd option, be it a little controversial
3. Are you a UK citizen? If not, do you have insurance and/or a credit card?
1. You'll be fine, go and see your GP if you're overly concerned
2. You can wait BUT you'll probably be at the back of the queue for several hours
Oh yeah theres a 3rd option, be it a little controversial
3. Are you a UK citizen? If not, do you have insurance and/or a credit card?
stick twenty quid in the pot if youre coming in with a cold / for a chinwag
30 November 2016, 01:31 PM
#26
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So do you resent my view that the possible cost of leaving (no one really knows of course) should IMHO be better spent on our NHS? £60b does get you a few light bulbs
And just to fuel your ire I think if there was a second referendum now that the result would be a resounding Remain!
dl
30 November 2016, 01:58 PM
#28
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Sadly no
I don't resent anyone's view, it's just that the EU debate is being covered on another thread.
As for the £60bn, we will just have to wait and see how much it will cost to shed the shackles of the EU. The 2nd referendum isn't going to happen so we all have to band together and move forward. Don't you agree?
That's enough of the EU shenanigans let's stay on topic
So do you resent my view that the possible cost of leaving (no one really knows of course) should IMHO be better spent on our NHS? £60b does get you a few light bulbs
And just to fuel your ire I think if there was a second referendum now that the result would be a resounding Remain!
dl
And just to fuel your ire I think if there was a second referendum now that the result would be a resounding Remain!
dl
As for the £60bn, we will just have to wait and see how much it will cost to shed the shackles of the EU. The 2nd referendum isn't going to happen so we all have to band together and move forward. Don't you agree?
That's enough of the EU shenanigans let's stay on topic
30 November 2016, 02:08 PM
#29
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Sadly no
I don't resent anyone's view, it's just that the EU debate is being covered on another thread.
As for the £60bn, we will just have to wait and see how much it will cost to shed the shackles of the EU. The 2nd referendum isn't going to happen so we all have to band together and move forward. Don't you agree?
That's enough of the EU shenanigans let's stay on topic
I don't resent anyone's view, it's just that the EU debate is being covered on another thread.
As for the £60bn, we will just have to wait and see how much it will cost to shed the shackles of the EU. The 2nd referendum isn't going to happen so we all have to band together and move forward. Don't you agree?
That's enough of the EU shenanigans let's stay on topic
Fair comment and I certainly had no wish to go off topic as the NHS subject is critical. But clearly funding and right of access to EU and other medics is top priority and inexorably linked into the discussion and future relations with the EU cannot just be ignored. dl
30 November 2016, 02:23 PM
#30
90% of fires, i juries and dangerous occurences I come across on a daily basis are due to unskilled people carrying out tasks they are not fit to undertake. Even something as simple as changing a lamp.
Let alone changing a ballast....
I actually carry out work for the NHS and you would be appalled at the work their "in house maintenance" team have carried out. In house maintenance does not, and never has worked.....