Is Focal overrrated?
27 June 2015, 06:32 PM
#1
Is Focal overrrated?
Just in the process of upgrading the audio in the Jag.
Actually the original speakers were surprisingly good, but obviously 4" whizzer cones isn't really going to cut it (still better than a OE classic scoob
).
So custom rear enclosures built to look like factory and some 6x9s which I had left lying around hidden behind the grille - you'd never know they were there
Sounded as good as they did when they lived in the scoob. Unfortunetly I had nothing that would fit in the front so had to buy new:
So to keep the factory look and grilles I bought a set of Focal Access 100AC 4" Coaxials. Box arrived: Look nice, bit old school, but nothing to moan about.
I hooked them up quickly just to test they worked and instantly noticed something lacking: Treble. Indeed I had to cover the tweeters to assure myself they were indeed working. Anyhoo, I put it down to them being off-axis and plodded along and fitted them - custom spacer brackets made to fit them behind the original factory grilles.
Just got it all in and working today, oh dear. My suspiciouns confirmed. Not only are the rear speakers much more sensitive (i.e louder per watt ), they have better upper mid range and treble. The Focals can best be described as "Smooth FM"; Silky, soft, blurry, like an out of focus 70's porno film. And thats with them in phase (I did reverse just in case).
Now don't get me wrong, for a 4" coaxial speaker they produce a nice warm deep tone, but the tweeters may as well not be there, they really are that rubbish. having my head unit set at +6db (max) on a 12KHz+ EQ band just about makes them acceptable...problem is the 6x9s in the back become too noticeable as they are so much more sensitive. So the fader has to be set most of the way forward (+7). But doing that means I lose the alot of bass as the 6x9s are there to provide the low end frequencies that the 4" Focals simply cannot produce without going flappy at high volumes.
I do have FIE on my headunit which allows a rear low-pass filter to be applied to the 6x9's effectively turning them into woofers, so the only high frequencies come from the Focals. It helps, but it just means the only high frequencies are produced by the focals, which is no where near enough.
OK they didn't cost the earth, but for the cost I could have had other brands like Pioneer/JL audio etc. But with alot of folks into DIY audio fitting Focal...I thought what the hey (Baaa baaa, I know
).
Just wondering should I give up now and buy another set of speakers or buy some separate tweeters and find somewhere to fit them whilst keeping a factory look.
Guess I'm lucky that in all my previous cars, pretty much every speaker, amp, headunit, sub etc has worked well and any issues were tunable with adjustment to basic level and EQ settings. Not this time though. Fingers burnt, I'm now just wondering is Focal an overrated brand, or is it just the Access range and the inverted dome tweeters that are a load of poo.
Actually the original speakers were surprisingly good, but obviously 4" whizzer cones isn't really going to cut it (still better than a OE classic scoob
).So custom rear enclosures built to look like factory and some 6x9s which I had left lying around hidden behind the grille - you'd never know they were there
Sounded as good as they did when they lived in the scoob. Unfortunetly I had nothing that would fit in the front so had to buy new:So to keep the factory look and grilles I bought a set of Focal Access 100AC 4" Coaxials. Box arrived: Look nice, bit old school, but nothing to moan about.
I hooked them up quickly just to test they worked and instantly noticed something lacking: Treble. Indeed I had to cover the tweeters to assure myself they were indeed working. Anyhoo, I put it down to them being off-axis and plodded along and fitted them - custom spacer brackets made to fit them behind the original factory grilles.
Just got it all in and working today, oh dear. My suspiciouns confirmed. Not only are the rear speakers much more sensitive (i.e louder per watt ), they have better upper mid range and treble. The Focals can best be described as "Smooth FM"; Silky, soft, blurry, like an out of focus 70's porno film. And thats with them in phase (I did reverse just in case).
Now don't get me wrong, for a 4" coaxial speaker they produce a nice warm deep tone, but the tweeters may as well not be there, they really are that rubbish. having my head unit set at +6db (max) on a 12KHz+ EQ band just about makes them acceptable...problem is the 6x9s in the back become too noticeable as they are so much more sensitive. So the fader has to be set most of the way forward (+7). But doing that means I lose the alot of bass as the 6x9s are there to provide the low end frequencies that the 4" Focals simply cannot produce without going flappy at high volumes.
I do have FIE on my headunit which allows a rear low-pass filter to be applied to the 6x9's effectively turning them into woofers, so the only high frequencies come from the Focals. It helps, but it just means the only high frequencies are produced by the focals, which is no where near enough.
OK they didn't cost the earth, but for the cost I could have had other brands like Pioneer/JL audio etc. But with alot of folks into DIY audio fitting Focal...I thought what the hey (Baaa baaa, I know
).Just wondering should I give up now and buy another set of speakers or buy some separate tweeters and find somewhere to fit them whilst keeping a factory look.
Guess I'm lucky that in all my previous cars, pretty much every speaker, amp, headunit, sub etc has worked well and any issues were tunable with adjustment to basic level and EQ settings. Not this time though. Fingers burnt, I'm now just wondering is Focal an overrated brand, or is it just the Access range and the inverted dome tweeters that are a load of poo.
Last edited by ALi-B; 27 June 2015 at 06:37 PM.
29 June 2015, 11:18 AM
#3
I've a set of Focal Access components up front and while I'm generally happy I find the treble too harsh at higher volumes - admittedly they're being driven from a JVC mech-less head so I'm not giving them the best source to work with.
29 June 2015, 09:10 PM
#4
I've tried both amped and via head unit. Head unit is a old Pioneer 6900 something or other, that was out the scoob...Sounded perfect in there (with uprated speakers). Amp again, is an old Pioneer GMX-something. Both these have previously powered the same 6x9s, Pioneer 17cm coaxials and some Infinity Kappa components - Which all worked very well...just they won't fit without butchering the door cards.
Trust me its the Focal speakers...They were lacking treble out of the car on the bench powered by a totally different source and amp. I even trailed them with the Hi-Fi amp in my house before hooking them up in the car. In every situation, the tweeters under-perform.
The only time they start to give something decent is if I crank the volume way up. But I don't want to listen them at high volume all the time;Its supposed to be Hi-Fi not PA.
Trust me its the Focal speakers...They were lacking treble out of the car on the bench powered by a totally different source and amp. I even trailed them with the Hi-Fi amp in my house before hooking them up in the car. In every situation, the tweeters under-perform.
The only time they start to give something decent is if I crank the volume way up. But I don't want to listen them at high volume all the time;Its supposed to be Hi-Fi not PA.
02 July 2015, 10:26 AM
#5
I haven't heard those Focal speakers but have heard lots of others. Generally they are considered to be "bright" sounding, rather than "warm". Very much a personal thing. I can't find any similar issues reported about the speakers you have.
So I guess:
A: They just aren't very good
B: They aren't what you were expecting/used too
C: They are faulty
Biggest problem with car hi-fi is that it's very difficult to try before you buy. Who did you get them from, is it possible to exchange them for something else? Can't give you any specific advice regarding 4" co-axis - best bet would be to sign up to the Talkaudio forum if you aren't already and ask on there.
So I guess:
A: They just aren't very good
B: They aren't what you were expecting/used too
C: They are faulty
Biggest problem with car hi-fi is that it's very difficult to try before you buy. Who did you get them from, is it possible to exchange them for something else? Can't give you any specific advice regarding 4" co-axis - best bet would be to sign up to the Talkaudio forum if you aren't already and ask on there.
04 July 2015, 04:56 PM
#6
I don't know either. I popped up the thread up as I was just thinking out loud that maybe I'm not the only one to have issues. Maybe I am LOL.
Most aftermarket speakers tend to have a lot more top-end and bottom end, as that's what the makers aim them for when compared to factory speakers, usually I always get something that works.
I'm going to try some messing with crossovers and put a high pass filter on the Focals and see if I can push them a bit harder in the upper frequencies. I think I have three problems, one being the Focals not having that much top-end and too much bottom-end (hence the corssover plan). Two; their poor sensitivity (87db) meaning they need a decent amp to drive them, which compared to the 4-way 6x9s in the back gives my fourth problem as they are something like 94db per watt/meter meaning that they are constantly overshadowing the Focals for every watt when driven together by the same amp, requiring a huge forward bias to the fader settings.
Hence putting a low pass filter on the 6x9s has helped to an extent, but its far from right.
Its a shame we can't try before buying these days. The 6x9s indeed came from showroom (long since closed) and I did hear them before buying, even in that situation its not perfect but I got he jist and do remember them being far better than some cheaper Sony Xplods.
Obviously everything now is just bought blind online based on reviews and spec. I've been lucky so far..the Alpine PDX-F6 in my Golf has to be the best example of that; I bought it totally blind on spec alone as it was the only high-power amp that would fit under the passenger seat!
Most aftermarket speakers tend to have a lot more top-end and bottom end, as that's what the makers aim them for when compared to factory speakers, usually I always get something that works.
I'm going to try some messing with crossovers and put a high pass filter on the Focals and see if I can push them a bit harder in the upper frequencies. I think I have three problems, one being the Focals not having that much top-end and too much bottom-end (hence the corssover plan). Two; their poor sensitivity (87db) meaning they need a decent amp to drive them, which compared to the 4-way 6x9s in the back gives my fourth problem as they are something like 94db per watt/meter meaning that they are constantly overshadowing the Focals for every watt when driven together by the same amp, requiring a huge forward bias to the fader settings.
Hence putting a low pass filter on the 6x9s has helped to an extent, but its far from right.
Its a shame we can't try before buying these days. The 6x9s indeed came from showroom (long since closed) and I did hear them before buying, even in that situation its not perfect but I got he jist and do remember them being far better than some cheaper Sony Xplods.
Obviously everything now is just bought blind online based on reviews and spec. I've been lucky so far..the Alpine PDX-F6 in my Golf has to be the best example of that; I bought it totally blind on spec alone as it was the only high-power amp that would fit under the passenger seat!
Last edited by ALi-B; 04 July 2015 at 05:00 PM.
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