simonds1

Hey guys, was just wondering if any of you might be able to shed some light on my Impreza's mysterious non-starting problem. It probably won't be much of a mystery by the time I explain the full story though. Well, most of it anyway.....

Basically, the short version of a reeeallllyyy long and boring story is that I had to stop driving my beloved Impreza (MY00 Turbo 2000) back in July 2014 because a mysterious fueling issue defeated me. It would drink fuel like an absolute demon - we're talking 10-12mpg whilst driving around like miss daisy not going anywhere near any boost. It was ridiculous, but anyway, that's a whole other can of worms. For now, the problem is that it will no longer start. I SORNed it back in July 2014 and it hasn't been on the road since. I tried to keep it going by starting it every weekend initially, and then that turned into every other weekend, which then probably turned into every 3 or 4 weeks or just when I thought of it sorta thing. I've got a pretty long driveway aswell, so used to drive it up and down that a few times aswell as just starting it. It's spent most of it's off-the-road time in my garage, but has unfortunately had to live outside for the past 5 or 6 months. So I went to start it over christmas and it just wouldn't fire. Battery is absolutely fine, it will turn over for days and days, but it just will not fire. It's not making ANY attempt to fire, not a sausage. Why after nearly two years of always starting on the first turn of the starter motor without fail.......would it suddenly not start at all? The only thing that I can think of that might have some relevance is that it was pretty low on fuel the previous time I had it running. So the first time it failed to start, I had just put about 5 litres of fuel in before I tried to start it. I then thought for some reason that maybe that wasn't enough so I went back and got another 5 litres. So it's got about 10 litres of fuel in it at the mo. The only other thing I will say is that on the day when it was first failing to start, it did make a different noise to normal. Normally when you turn the ignition on you can hear the 'buzzzzzzzzz' of the fuel pump priming, and then the noise of the fuel squirting its way to the front of the car. Sounds a bit like when you're drinking through a straw and you get to the last bit and you're trying to suck it up y'know? It had always sounded like that. Anyway, this time, after the 'buuzzzzzz' of the fuel pump, it sounded like just air going pfffffffff instead of the usual liquid squirting/running noise. I don't know what that could mean?

Any ideas or things that I could try would be hugely appreciated as I'd love to get it going again and then try and sort my previous fueling issue and have a summer play car

Cheers guys

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

1st have you read the ecu for and error codes(using the cars self diagnostics)?
Could be sensor related,dirty/faulty cam sensor, maf , lambda ect.

But start with the cheap and easy things first.
Since its been sat a while it would be wise to put new spark plugs in or at least give them a clean.
New fuel filter is cheap and if you have pulled any cr@p through the system then might need doing(this filter is sometimes overlooked on a service but needs to be changed on a big service)
Have a look at the air filter,clean or replace.
Check for any fuel leaks(you said it was very bad on fuel)
So start with the easy stuff and just work to eliminate any possible causes.

You say you can hear the pump priming still so sounds like that might be ok.

simonds1

Hi ossett2k2, thanks for your reply. Yeah a fuel filter does seem like a perfect first option really, I don't know why I didn't think of that. I'm not sure if I have the facility to check the ECU for fault codes because it's an Alcatek ECU? There is no check engine light or anything on though, but I'm not sure if there even would be with that ECU?

I'll order up a fuel filter and come back and update

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

after trying to start it whip a plug out and see if there is any fuel on it

Chan HT

Suggest you try to get at least slight more than 1/3 tank of fuel just to be sure pump is pumping fuel.

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Fuel goes off too, so put fresh in

RobJenks

I had a similar issue with my MY99 and LINK ECU at Christmas.
My MY99 had been sitting idle for a year but it fired up ok after replacing the old battery with a new one.
But after a few days , the car refused to start.
Turned over strongly but no hint of it firing.
I removed the LINK and reinstalled the OEM ECU -including the MAF . I found all the bits in a carton that had been sealed since 2001!
It fired immediately , but ran rough.
So it appeared everything functioned ok , except maybe the LINK.
Put back the LINK .
Turned her over and up she fired strong as ever !

I would totally isolate the ecu by pulling out the 3 plugs in the side of the ECU.
Then plug them back in again , before trying to crank again.
Its worth a try.

simonds1

Thanks for your replies guys. Am still waiting on a fuel filter to arrive so I'll probably try that first. If that still fails I'll whip a spark plug out to see what state it's in after the failed starting attempt, and then I can try the ECU thing after that. Will update after I've tried things. Also, the fuel in there is fresh, but it's not as much as 3/4 of a tank. It's always been lower than that since it's been off the road, but has always started fine. Always just topped it up with 5 litre cans then to keep it going. This last time though I put a second one in so it's got 10 litres in at the mo.

simonds1

Hey guys, sorry it's been so long but I managed to find a bit of time today to try some things. First thing I did was change the fuel filter, and unfortunately that made no difference. One thing I did notice tho was that there was fuel in the pipes going to and from the filter, so does that mean the fuel is at least definitely getting that far? I hadn't tried to start the car since the last time (two weekends ago), so that fuel must have been there since then, or even longer ago? I don't know.

Then I also tried putting my standard ECU back on and that also made no difference. To me it doesn't sound right when the fuel pump is priming. Just to clarify, it doesn't sound right with either ECU, this is not just since I put the standard one back on. It's exactly the same with both. I can't describe it. It used to sound like the buzz of the fuel pump and then liquid rushing through the pipes, but to me it just sounds like air now? Well, initially a bit 'liquidy' but then more 'airy' than usual?! I don't know. I took a video of me turning the ignition on twice, maybe this will help diagnose it.....

http://s138.photobucket.com/user/sim...goosj.mp4.html

Another thing I thought I could try was to take the fuel hose going to the 'in' of the fuel filter off, and then turn the ignition on so the fuel pump primes, and see if it squirts any fuel out? At least I'd definitely know it was getting that far then? I also need to look at the condition of the spark plugs which I didn't have time to do today.

Will report back if I try anything else in the meantime.

Thanks in advance for your help

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Have you checked to see if the vacuum pipe has come off the fuel pressure regulator,or if it's split?

simonds1

No I haven't tried that. I'll have a look when I get home. There doesn't actually seem to be fuel leaking from anywhere though, and there's no actual smell of fuel with these constant failed starting attempts?

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Yes it's only a vacuum pipe so no petrol will come through that,it runs from the top of the regulator to the intake manifold,if it's not attached then you won't have enough pressure and may cause starting problems.

Khandaris

That sounds like its not even cranking the engine over - could it be your starter motor?

albob

Immobiliser is a bit suspect on this MY

spudboytim

iTrader: (3)

Get the spark plugs out and check them if u haven't already! Sounds like ur car originally could of been over fuelling like mad giving u poor economy and then just starting it now and again will of fouled ur plugs and could be the reason it won't start.
Tim.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

The video clip is just the ignition switching on,he hasn't cranked the car.

Afaik he said the fuel pump is priming with ignition on,immobiliser usually shuts off the pump,but worth a check tho.

I'm sure he must have cleaned the plugs but if not then this is a definite must do!

hodgy0_2

Whoop wrong thread lol

hodgy0_2

Whoops wrong thread

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

Twice?!

hodgy0_2

Three times


A lady

joz8968

iTrader: (13)

I defo won't be singing the next line!

mickywrx

iTrader: (29)

Could be the ECU itself that is the problem. IIRC they had issues with the injector drivers going **** up, or something like that.

simonds1

Hey guys, have finally had a chance to look at the car recently and have got a few updates.

The first thing I tried was changing the fuel filter and that made no difference. Then I had the idea of checking if fuel was actually getting to the fuel filter at all, so I took the 'IN' pipe off and turned the ignition on to prime the fuel pump and a good healthy squirt of fuel came out....



Then I tried swapping back to the standard ECU (Alcatek one is in there at the moment) but that made no difference either.

Then I took all of the injectors out and had a look at them. They all looked fine and all the seals are in really good condition with no damage etc. Ends all looked good, no damage. Checked the impedance on them aswell while they were out and they were all the correct 12.5ohms.

I checked all of the pipes I could see and all seem fine. The one on the fuel pressure regulator that someone mentioned is all fine aswell.

Then I changed the spark plugs. This also made no difference I was really hoping that would do it. This is one of the old ones that came out....



All of them looked the same. They were put in the car in September 2013 when I had it serviced and had done about 6k miles up until July 2014 when I took it off the road. Car has only been started and run occasionally over the past two years since then, but has never actually been driven on the road.

Tonight I tried to start the car (I let it turn over for a good 10-15 seconds) and then I took a spark plug out as quick as I could (the one at the front passenger side of the car, nearest the battery) to have a look at it. People said it should have had fuel on it. How much fuel are we talking here? Like literally dripping? Or just a residue? To me there was nothing on it at all. It did smell a bit fuelly though, but nothing too severe. So now I'm thinking maybe the fuel isn't getting through somehow? I 100% know there is fuel getting as far as the fuel filter, so does that mean there could be a blockage between the fuel filter and the fuel rail somehow? Surely all of the injectors can't be blocked? I have no absolute definite way of telling if I'm getting a spark either?

Is it worth me trying to start it again with the standard EkuTek mapped ECU on it, and then try and read fault codes (if any) with my laptop? I have ECU Explorer installed on it, but I have no way of communicating with the Alcatak ECU. If there was a sensor fault, would the ECU pick it up and store it during the starting process if the engine doesn't even get as far as firing and running?

I can't really think what to try next? Any more ideas would be hugely appreciated, cheers guys

David__H

Well, I'm no expert, but you need to check 2 things. Is there a spark and is there fuel. Sounds obvious. Pull out each spark plug in turn and crank the engine and check you have a spark at each one. What I don't know about is the injectors. Is it possible to remove an injector, but leave it connected to see if any fuel comes out?

simonds1

Hi David, thanks for your reply. Yeah, sounds simple doesn't it! I guess air is the only thing not mentioned there. Technically you need air to go with the fuel and the spark, but I'm assuming there is air for now. I haven't actually tried starting it with the air filter out incase it's blocked, but it certainly looked okay when I took it out to get to the spark plugs etc. Maybe that's a simple next thing to try.

Yeah I thought about pulling the spark plugs out individually and seeing if they sparked, but I was a bit nervous about trying to crank the engine with an empty spark plug hole. Silly question, but won't something come out of the hole? I remember I had all of my spark plugs out in my old Renault 19 16v and I cranked the engine and ended up decorating the front end of the car and most of my garage in oil! So yeah, I was a bit unsure about doing that but will definitely try it if that's the next logical step.

I was also going to try a similar thing with the injectors, but I just stopped myself at the last minute because I was having a major idiot moment. I had 4 jam jars ready, had the injectors out of the fuel rail in the jam jars (in situ in the car) and was about to try turning the ignition on to prime the fuel pump.....and then it suddenly occurred to me that the injectors were out of the fuel rail and fuel doesn't travel down the electrical connections! Oh dear. So yeah I'm not sure of an actual good way to test those? Other than the trying to start the car and checking a spark plug which I've already tried? Spark plug seemed dry to me. Infact, here it is, freshly removed after about 10 - 15 seconds of engine turning over and failing to start....

David__H

Well I've tested spark plugs when not in the cylinder. Mind you, I made the mistake of holding the coil pack. ****, I got quite a shock!!! Lol. I don't see any problem with cranking the engine with a plug out. You're telling me it won't fire at the minute. If you do get something out, it would be an opportunity to see if it's fuel! :-) So, you get to check your injectors.....perhaps?

David__H

'ere, it couldn't be the cam position sensor could it? I've had to change them in the past (on classics). You'd have an error code for it in the ECU. The engine won't fire if it's screwed. Disconnecting the cam sensor is the way to get oil pressure back up after an oil change since it prevents the engine firing.

Just another thought.

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

now you have the standard ecu back in could you hook a laptop up to the OBD and check for any error codes ?

simonds1

That's a good point! Worth a try I suppose

You are the second person to suggest that to me Maybe if I try and read some ECU error codes off my standard ECU as JDM_Stig suggested, then that might shed some light on it.

Yeah this is what I was thinking. Standard ECU isn't in there at the mo, but I could put it back in and try it again. Do you know if error codes would be stored just from a failed starting attempt (or several!)? I'll have a try of that tonight if the weather's not too bad and will update later on.

Cheers for all your help so far guys

sti-chris

crank or cam position sensor ?