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Um, did you check for codes yet? Yes, with the OEM ECU installed and check connectors......If not, make it so and report.
Hi David, no I haven't checked for codes yet. All I've done is literally that starting attempt you saw on the video, which was on the Alcatek ECU. I'll swap ECUs tomorrow if it's not pissing it down as predicted and then I'll report back.
Hey guys. Right, have got quite a few things to update you with here so I'll try and make as much sense as possible.
So, the first thing I tried was changing back to the standard ECU and checking for fault codes. For some reason now, this doesn't work? I connected up the two black plugs under the dash and turned the ignition on, exactly like I had done previously when it told me the crank position sensor was faulty, but this time there's absolutely no check engine light at all? This is a bit worrying? My first thought was the communication with the ECU is somehow screwed? So then I tried a new bit of software called 'Free SSM' which a mate suggested to me, and that failed to communicate with the ECU. We weren't sure if it was compatible with the cable I had though, so then I tried the old faithfull ECU Explorer which has always worked for me in the past and this wouldn't work either So it seems that nothing can talk to my ECU anymore? Not even the car itself? Hmmmm. So I can't check for fault codes, unless I get some software that can do it on the Alcatek ECU somehow, and hope that works?
Then I happened to notice something quite significant I think. With all my previous starting attempts I've had my hand in through the window turning the key while I've been looking at / listening to what's going on in the engine bay. Today though, I was actually sat in the car looking at the dash and I noticed this.....
That is with the standard ECU still in the car. The temp gauge is at maximum with the ignition off, then when I turn the ignition on it drops down to below the bottom. Ignition off again and temp gauge shoots back up to maximum. Hmmm So that got me thinking that the car obviously thinks it's as hot as it can possibly be, so that would probably explain the fans being on constantly but not sure about the fuel pump not working. Would the ECU cut the fuel pump as a safety feature for a massive overheat? Temperature gauge behaves exactly the same with the Alcatek ECU back in but the only difference is the cooling fan comes on when I turn the ignition off. Fans don't come at all on with the standard ECU connected. So probably some sort of coolant temp sensor has gone somewhere?
So then I noticed something else very strange, which is making me think my immobiliser is playing up and might be the reason why I suddenly have no fuel pump.....
So basically, when I connect up the battery for the first time I can lock and unlock the car as many times as I want with the key fob, but as soon as I turn the ignition on and off again, the key fob won't do anything at all This is very strange and is definitely new behaviour since it briefly was running the other day. I would normally be able to lock and unlock it after several ignition on-and-offs and failed starting attempts etc no bother. But now, once I've had the ignition on and off again, it won't lock and unlock until I disconnect the battery and plug it back in again. It behaves like this on both the standard and Alcatek ECUs.
Okay, so the next thing I tried, just out of curiosity really, was to check the fuel pump connection to see if there was power getting back there. So this is what my fuel pump connector looks like and I just wanted to check with you guys that I tested the correct wires, because as usual on the internet, there was a lot of conflicting information!....
So I found one youtube video claiming the blue wire (in fairness, he said 'blue & yellow striped', which I don't have) was the positive power and the black was the earth. So I don't have blue & yellow striped and I have two blacks. Fantastic start! So, first of all we tested the fat red & black wire as positive power and the fat black wire as earth and got absolutely nothing when the ignition was turned on, but then 11.8v when we turned it off?? So then we tried the thin blue wire as the positive power and the fat black as the earth and we got 6v while the ignition was turned on......but it was a continuous 6v not a brief bit of power and then nothing as I was expecting. Just continuous 6v until I turned the ignition off. Then when I turned the ignition off it was 2.3v. Both of these tests were done with the Alcatek ECU in the car.
So yeah, I think I have more than one problem going on at the same time here. Definitely seems to be something up with a coolant temp sensor of some kind, and also a possible alarm / immobiliser issue which is stopping the fuel pump from getting any power? Weird how both of these problems (and however many others there may be) both suddenly happened while the car was running for the 20 seconds or whatever it ran for the other day. Just seems very odd. If you've managed to not fall asleep from boredom whilst reading all of that and watching the videos, I'd very much appreciate any comments or thoughts any of you have! Thankyou
Okay, so the next thing I tried, just out of curiosity really, was to check the fuel pump connection to see if there was power getting back there. So this is what my fuel pump connector looks like and I just wanted to check with you guys that I tested the correct wires, because as usual on the internet, there was a lot of conflicting information!....
So I found one youtube video claiming the blue wire (in fairness, he said 'blue & yellow striped', which I don't have) was the positive power and the black was the earth. So I don't have blue & yellow striped and I have two blacks. Fantastic start! So, first of all we tested the fat red & black wire as positive power and the fat black wire as earth and got absolutely nothing when the ignition was turned on, but then 11.8v when we turned it off?? So then we tried the thin blue wire as the positive power and the fat black as the earth and we got 6v while the ignition was turned on......but it was a continuous 6v not a brief bit of power and then nothing as I was expecting. Just continuous 6v until I turned the ignition off. Then when I turned the ignition off it was 2.3v. Both of these tests were done with the Alcatek ECU in the car.
Comparing your plug with the MY98 diagrams (which has a blue/yellow cable) i would say the fat red/black and the fat black are the fuel pump feed and return.
the other three wires are for the fuel level sender
Comparing your plug with the MY98 diagrams (which has a blue/yellow cable) i would say the fat red/black and the fat black are the fuel pump feed and return.
the other three wires are for the fuel level sender
Oh okay then, so that's the first connections we tested. So no power at all when the ignition's turned on, and then 11.8v when turned off? That's not right surely.
Your are not having the best of luck with the car, Was super to hear it start but gutted to see it cut out and bring new problems to the table
Few things that I thought of to try and look out for.
As the car had never started in a long time and you finally got it to run it could be that the system now getting powered up and running caused the momentarily run with the failure to part or parts of the electrical system.
I would check the relays to see if they are still working, Id imagine the fuel pump runs from a relay and possibly the fan also has its own relay.
Not being used for some time the contacts can get tarnished or burn shut in some cases.
A stuck relay could be the cause of the fan continually running or the sensor has gone US.
Id also think they would be relatively inexpensive to replace, or you could make a small loom and test them with your multi meter.
Also check the earth straps for good connections and clean them up where you can.
Oh okay then, so that's the first connections we tested. So no power at all when the ignition's turned on, and then 11.8v when turned off? That's not right surely.
No it's not.
The Fuel pump relay seems to be operating in reverse.
It is fed via an sbf directly from the battery which is controlled by the ecu.
Your temperature gauge reading high - the single 3 pin temp sensor supplying both ecu and gauge is situated underneath the alternator which you have had off to remove the crank position sensor.
Could its wiring have been disturbed??
If you haven't already got these they may be useful
Your temperature gauge reading high - the single 3 pin temp sensor supplying both ecu and gauge is situated underneath the alternator which you have had off to remove the crank position sensor.
Could its wiring have been disturbed??
Hi Don, thanks for those images. Just to confirm which sensor you're talking about - there's one that points downwards and then there's another one slightly further back that points backwards towards the interior of the car? Am I right in saying they're both to do with water temperature somehow? Or is one to do with oil?
Also, I meant to mention this before. I noticed that when I was turning my ignition on and off before, there was no sign of the check engine light at all. If I remember rightly, when you turn the ignition on the check engine light comes on briefly? So now I'm thinking that my check engine light isn't working for some reason? That would explain why the fault code reading wasn't working? Well anyway, I was looking at wiring diagrams online and found this section....
To be perfectly honest I don't really understand what I'm looking at, BUT.....I noticed that the water temperature gauge and check engine light are in the same section. Coincidence that they now both seem to not work?
Also, sorry, but I guess everything's worth mentioning incase it's relevant - when I tried to start the car before with the standard ECU connected and it obviously wouldn't start because the fuel pump won't work....while it was turning over I noticed the speedo was occasionally jumping up to about 15 - 20mph? I don't think it ever used to do that? Haven't tried to actually start it with the Alcatek ECU on so I can't tell you if it does the same or not with that in.
I can't claim to know much about it, but from the descriptions and what people have said, it would seem that there is an issue with the temperature sensor. It would make sense that the fans come on if the sensor fails, in order to maximise the cooling.
Is the oil pressure warning light coming on? That's also in the diagram for the engine control system. Would be annoying to fit a new sensor if there is an electrical issue elsewhere (also causing the check connectors not to work).
Also, I meant to mention this before. I noticed that when I was turning my ignition on and off before, there was no sign of the check engine light at all. If I remember rightly, when you turn the ignition on the check engine light comes on briefly? So now I'm thinking that my check engine light isn't working for some reason? That would explain why the fault code reading wasn't working? Well anyway, I was looking at wiring diagrams online and found this section....
To be perfectly honest I don't really understand what I'm looking at, BUT.....I noticed that the water temperature gauge and check engine light are in the same section. Coincidence that they now both seem to not work?
That part of the diagram shows the combination meter i.e. your dashboard, and those are only the indicator lamps, all with a common earth.
Item 12 below is the temperature sensor in the water manifold
Item 5 below is the oil pressure sensor closer to the P/S pump
So, according to the manual, the fuel pump relay is working (0 for ignition on, and circa 12v when off)?
Hell of a spot yet again David, I hadn't picked up on that. Could this mean my fuel pump is possibly knackered? I guess the next port of call there would be to connect 12v directly to the fuel pump to see if it operates?
Originally Posted by David__H
Is the oil pressure warning light coming on? That's also in the diagram for the engine control system.
Forgive my silly question, but is the oil pressure warning light the one shaped like an oil can that's above the check engine light? Or is that for the oil level? Whatever that one is, it is working.
Originally Posted by Don Clark
That part of the diagram shows the combination meter i.e. your dashboard, and those are only the indicator lamps, all with a common earth.
I'm not very good at reading wiring diagrams, but am I right in saying that the water temp gauge has the same common earth as the check engine light and oil pressure warning light? If that is the case, then the water temp gauge is getting power and so is the oil pressure warning light (if it's the one I mentioned before), so a problem with that earth wouldn't explain the absence of the check engine light?
Hell of a spot yet again David, I hadn't picked up on that. Could this mean my fuel pump is possibly knackered? I guess the next port of call there would be to connect 12v directly to the fuel pump to see if it operates?
Forgive my silly question, but is the oil pressure warning light the one shaped like an oil can that's above the check engine light? Or is that for the oil level? Whatever that one is, it is working.
I'm not very good at reading wiring diagrams, but am I right in saying that the water temp gauge has the same common earth as the check engine light and oil pressure warning light? If that is the case, then the water temp gauge is getting power and so is the oil pressure warning light (if it's the one I mentioned before), so a problem with that earth wouldn't explain the absence of the check engine light?
Yes, the oil can warning light is for oil pressure. There isn't one for oil level (sadly), at least not as far as I know. About the fuel pump, you could check it as described, but other folk who know a lot more than me think there is something else more significant that is wrong (and affecting multiple things).
Do what Beastie says. Check the connections for everything you touched. Then, given the corrosion in your engine bay, I'd identify all earthing points, remove the connection and ensure you have good metal contact for each one.
Um, you do have plenty of coolant in the system don't you? Just thought I'd ask.
Hey guys, update time. You'll be pleased to know that I've solved it! Huge thanks to all of you that've helped me along the way, really appreciate it
I'm actually a bit embarrassed at the actual solution because it was completely my own stupid fault And I can't believe I hadn't noticed it until now. So I went out to check my earth points as suggested by a few people, and the first one I looked at (the one by the passenger side intercooler bracket mounting) looked like this.....
It wasn't even done up properly! I'd undone it this far so I could get a crocodile clip in there back when I was checking the spark plugs and needed to earth them, and I'd obviously forgotten to do it up again. What a plonker! So yeah, cleaned up the connection all nice, screwed it all back on properly and she started first time and kept running beautifully. I'm amazed at how well it runs to be fair after not starting at all for 9 months. Brakes are too seized to be able to move it tho, so that's the next problem to be solved.
Thanks again to everyone that helped and we can officially mark this thread as solved
03 September 2016, 12:29 AM
So it seems that nothing can talk to my ECU anymore? Not even the car itself? Hmmmm. So I can't check for fault codes, unless I get some software that can do it on the Alcatek ECU somehow, and hope that works?
So, first of all we tested the fat red & black wire as positive power and the fat black wire as earth and got absolutely nothing when the ignition was turned on, but then 11.8v when we turned it off?? So then we tried the thin blue wire as the positive power and the fat black as the earth and we got 6v while the ignition was turned on......but it was a continuous 6v not a brief bit of power and then nothing as I was expecting. Just continuous 6v until I turned the ignition off. Then when I turned the ignition off it was 2.3v. Both of these tests were done with the Alcatek ECU in the car. 
