When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Discussed before but cant find the thread, so, at lunch, a Nice Focus RS went passed, sounding lurvly and when it came to a stop, blipped the throttle gently and a nice pop n bang was exiting the nice exhaust, nice was my thought
So, why cant i achieve consistant pops n bangs ?
ive tried rich AFR`s in the fuel cells, retarded timing in low load cells as in 0 in all cells, none give any difference in pops n bangs
Now, all i can summise is as its in the realms of closed loop the 02 sensor is correcting any fuel increase i add in, within the fuel trims naturally and pops n bangs below 3k are a thing of desire ?
I do get occasional pops n bangs if i get the sequence just right but again, these usually occur around or above 3k and never one after another
Have you got reinjection set high enough as otherwise it'll cut fuel entirely until the revs drop right down low.
It's something I never managed to get to work either - although I was only trying it as a 'play' thing - I found that it didn't drive very nicely with the reinjection set too high as you loose engine braking.
If you monitor the timing in the live log, you'll see that when you take your foot off the throttle, it stops trying to set the timing according to whatever is set in the highlighted cell of the ignition map. It defaults to some other value. I think there must be other configuration tables that aren't exposed in the ESL software which covers a lot of 'off throttle' behavior like this.
The mapper had tried to map in pops and bangs but iirc all it did was make the car drive crap like Ben says,losing engine braking.
I didn't really notice if the pops and bangs worked as I change the map as soon as I got the car due to an unsafe map.
Re-injection was set @3000-3500rpm and timing around 25(I think) but AFR was 14.7.
I have the map saved so I can post some screen shots or even email the map over to you to take a look if you want?
I now have a switch for ALS for fireworks but i know that's still not available for your car
Have you tried putting in negative timing in those low cells? Is this even possible with ESL?
I know with your foot off that the timing goes back to 12 but what happens when you rest your foot on the loud pedal?
I don't think there is anything in my ALS tables that would be any good for you to look at,but can post up them if you want?
Last edited by ossett2k2; 16 November 2016 at 06:06 PM.
I remember Andy saying something on the course about it not being possible to set negative timing values - well, it might be possible in the UI, but the ECU will ignore it.
If you rest your foot on the throttle it just moves up the table as the load has increased etc so it then reads the timing in load cells 5 etc rather than 4 or below but even then if these tables are 0 timing it makes no pops etc
I think the only way you get pops etc is if you accelerate , throttle off at higher revs than 4K then you may get them on over run . I like them between gear changes but alas , I do get them but never know when , bit like a packet of revels and the coffee flavoured one, you will get it but usually at the end ha
It's a shame I can't stop the 02 working while I'm chilling around town etc then enable it once I start going over 4K , maybe then a really rich fuel table low down would bring on the pops lol
It's a shame I can't stop the 02 working while I'm chilling around town etc then enable it once I start going over 4K , maybe then a really rich fuel table low down would bring on the pops lol
Do you think it's possible to wire in a switch that cuts power to the O2 sensor?
I reckon you could quite easily use an Arduino to simulate a narrowband signal that's showing a lean reading at certain RPM ranges, therefore fooling the ECU into pumping more fuel in. After all, it's only a sine wave signal oscillating around 0.45v.
Cracking idea Ben.
You should be able to use your innovate AFR gauge to simulate narrowband and use the settings in the software to fool the ecu?
Are you using the LC-2?
i think the standard o2 sensor will die quickly if you cut the power to it so that idea is probably out the window.
Are you MAF or speed density and what AFR's have you tried, some cars like 12's some like 10's, generally light on fuel gives more sound and high on fuel gives flames but less noise. 0 degrees timing if you can get the ECU to apply it should do rightly.
The overrun fuelling will depend on MAF readings (or speed density VE/fuel table value) so depending on your setup a little more value in the overrun areas should help get a little extra fuel in the mix. Failing that back to playing with the injector scale value but of course that leaves you having to double check your starting/cruising/boost AFR's again
There is definitely a trick to resting your foot lightly enough on the pedal to get it off "idle" coasting down but only just enough to hit say 5 engine load. If you find you can only get 6 or 7 engine load then you might have to rescale the timing table so that 7 is the lowest value and 8 returns to normal timing for nudging through traffic.
I'm MAF now , ive tried 8 ,10,12 AFRs at load points , 4, 7 and even changed load point 4 to 1 as off throttle that's what I was hitting , none made any difference , timing at 0 also . Just makes for a crap running car lol
I've had injector scale at 0.85 which was rich , made AFRs about 1 out , still no major pops etc
Even with AFRs rich the fuel trims compensate and correct so your just making for a messy looking fuel trim table with no benefit
I was thinking more of cutting the signal to the o2 sensor with a switch and not the voltage,is that not how turning the closed loop off on my ESL works?
The video you posted sounds like antilag,is pretty much how mine sounds anyway.
I'm not sure if pops&bangs are as aggressive,although I've not heard one with those mapped in so can't say for sure.
handy thing with the newage cars is you can adjust the idle timing value so having even 0 degrees in idle timing (above speed threshold) and even a little bit of fuel from overrun gives a fair amount of sound - but only with the right exhaust. Massive difference in sound comparing the same timing/fuel settings on say Nur Spec vs prodrive exhaust or one of those ebay no brand 3" jobbies with 4 resonators in it.
When you try adjusting the low load timing (say 6000-3000 rpm) to 0 degrees and set fuel to say 12:1 - if you lightly tap /touch/feather the throttle on deceleration are you able to log what the timing and AFR does? It should be doable to have a very very light load area with the timing to make sound effects then as soon as you get the full weight of your foot on the pedal the load increases and off you go. On a newage car this is around 0.2 g/rev just the very first column on the timing / fuel table.
This is the problem tho, no matter what AFR i put into the fuel cells at low load, the fuel trims just compensates and erradicates the changes.
When i last put say 10 in the low load cells, my fuel trims went to like 80 as it was taking out the fuel i was adding in to get back to stoich hence no pops (im guessing)
i seem to get more pops with more timing and less fuel ???
For instance, as i say, i do get the occasional loud pop on gear change, great, but id like them to be more consitant , currently i run in the 40`s timing wise low load from 2800 onwards and pretty lean AFR`s and no re-injection until 1200 rpm , and get occasional pop, when i run 0 timing and rich AFR`s and reinjection at say 4000, hardly ever a pop
Bloody weird it is lol
The only way i get a proper rich mixture is if i increase the MAF calibration at low loads , i could increase some more ( i increased the readings to about 2.7v as i was having lean issues) and it cured the issue , if i went more i would get a rich mixture for sure ha !
Last edited by The Rig; 17 November 2016 at 12:02 PM.
Rather than mess with fuelling which doesnt seem to add alot to the equation , to mine anyway, i thought about maybe retarding the timing in more than 1 load cell, as from looking at previous logs, you dont always get to minimum engine load that quickly
not applied it yet just food for thought whilst thinking out loud ??
16 November 2016, 03:48 PM
Consistant Pops n bangs on ESL ?
