bmxpunk

I got the ESL Unit years ago for my rally car and have been making little changes over a long period of time. The car runs well but I would love to improve response and build boost sooner. I am open to any other suggestions or questions.
My setup:
Ej22t Block
ej20G heads
9.0:1 Pistons from JE ceramic crowns, moly skirts
Manley Forged Rods
Cometic MLS headgaskets
ARP Studs
Ej20R INtake manifold
VF37 turbo & twinscroll manifolds
STi Yellow 550cc sidefeed injectors
Black Ver 3-4 TMIC
"Green" label MAF all other wiring from a European 20g
2.5" exhaust with Catalytic converter at rear bumper

If you look at the log I am not reaching 1.03 bar of boost until 5k rpm. This log is in hill climb trim so I don't have the 34mm restrictor installed.

Thank you for the help!

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

in the log your max wastegate duty is only 89.9% - what's the maximum solenoid duty set to in your rom? Also are you able to post the whole map (might be easier to look at) and a good solid log of a 3rd or 4th gear pull?

bmxpunk

I will try to get a good pull this afternoon as well as the whole map.
I guess I have a few major concerns:
-Should my turbo take so much duty cycle to be making the boost that I am?
-how does my timing map look?
-how do my AFR look? At WOT my wideband reads really closely to what the fuel map is requesting, within 0.2?
Also is there a way for for the esl to log my wideband
-how can I tell if I need to rescale the MAF and/or MAP sensors?
-what do I need to log to rescale the MAF/MAP?
-lastly, any word on the Motorsport pack for the 92-96 board?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

That's the MAX table though, you'd need to see an actual log to see how much duty your using. Some cars need a little more duty than others but it may be worth checking what size of restrictor pill you have fitted.


Looks quite nice to me

Also quite nice.


Yes - disconnect the stock O2 and then take the 0-5v output from the wideband and plug that into the stock o2 wire - this will allow the ECU to log the 0-5v reading and you'll have to convert that back to AFR later.

If your AFR on the wideband doesn't match with what the fuel table is requesting then either an air leak is throwing it off or MAF scaling needs a tweak. If the MAP sensor is matching with your boost gauge then no tinkering needed - if it doesn't match then the settings are wrong. Check it at ignition on / engine off (compare boost gauge to ESL reading) then start the engine and compare again with the vacuum reading. Having 2 fixed points will make adjusting the settings for the MAP sensor much easier.

Lots and lots of time - generally it's not worth the hassle but basically you need to log MAF, Load, Engine Speed, Wideband and throttle angle. Convert the wideband to AFR readings and then lookup load/RPM on your target fuel table to see what the AFR should have read. Use actual AFR compared to Target AFR to create MAF error and then apply the MAF error to the MAF scaling - rinse and repeat until your targets are met. Also you may have to account for some wideband lag depending on how far down the pipe your sensor is. Compare how long it takes from closed throttle to reading free air on the wideband that should give you a rough idea how much adjustment is needed.



I've not heard anything but you can always send an email to ESL and see how they are getting on

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Looking at those settings id say your duty and boost targets are a bit , static

why do you have boost target of 1.08 across the majority of the load table ?

Id say your actuator is fubard or the arm needs adjusting as you shouldnt be needing anywhere near duty cycles in the 90`s to be obtaining boost of 1.08

Your fuel table is also quite static, you have 11.3 across alot of the rev range, now this is a good AFR to get but depending how the car drives ive set mine to build up to the richer AFR, i felt if i was hitting 11.3 at around 4000 rpm the car felt lazy as was too rich too soon. (your fuel trims like good tho, dont get me started on those ha ha )

same goes for your timing advance, its good to have a steady increase of advance but it starts quite early in the load and again, static, 7`s across all the rows then 8`s , unless you have adjusted the base timing to suit this ?

Again, if the car drives nice dont listen to me, im still learning lol but something isnt right with your duty cycles for sure

bmxpunk

I am questioning my turbo charger at this point. not knowing if it was the actuator, I tried one with a 1 bar spring in it and adjusted the BCS duty to 0 across the board. I made a couple pulls and never saw more than 0.86 BAR.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Ok , was it an adjustable actuator ?

bmxpunk

I went to get some logs for you today and even when I was adding to the boost control duty map, manifold pressure continued to drop so I pulled the turbo. The compressor wheel doesn't look so good.

bmxpunk

So i put the original map the ESL came with back into the car and wow it is so much faster and more responsive.

But when I went to log a pull my Manifold pressure reading went to -1.00 and didn't move for the rest of the drive. I checked the vacuum line and it is still intact. Did my MAP sensor just fail on me? And if so what are my options for upgrading it? Since I have an early car I think the most that sensor reads was around 16psi so I might as well give myself some headroom down the line.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

the sensor from a 97/98 car will be easiest to put on - it will read up to 1.7 bar and you can lift the settings from the 97/98 ESL base map to get you up and running.

bmxpunk

I have been going through the car to get it ready for a few rallies in 2017 and I happened to get n mount the Ecu today. This is how I found it when I opened it up. I assume this is the root of all my problems. Could I put some foam between the daughterboard and the cover to keep it plugged in or would there be too much heat?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Crikey, thats odd

The ESL daughter board should just push into the Socket mounted on the original ECU board, it shouldnt vibrate loose or come away, i had trouble removing my old ESL board from the original ecu socket, was very well attached.

i wouldnt of thought there would be much heat inside the ECU

jaygsi

iTrader: (46)

I thought they had to be soldered? Or is that the later models.

bmxpunk

The socket is soldiered to the ecu board and the daughter board just plugs in.

Yann

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmxpunk
Also is there a way for for the esl to log my wideband
Hello,
I am a new user of ESL Board, and I have the same questioning...

@Bludgod
But I thought the narrow band was a 0-1V signal ?
I think Andy told me I had to use the NB output (0-1V) of the WB but don't know how...

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

yes the narrowband sensor is 0-1v signal, when closed loop is disabled however the ECU will log the full 0-5v signal from your widebands 5v output line. Log this in ESL software then convert to AFR figures using the scale from your widebands instruction manual and work from there

Yann

OK thanks that is clear like that (I wouldn't have guess it)
But it doesn't seem really convenient for me...maybe I am wrong
Do you think it is the better way to proceed ?
for exemple with evoscan (or other software), you are supposed to be able to log with some (not any) wideband system on another usb port, I don't have yet a wb system so I can't test

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

yes with 3rd party programs you can log via serial input from the wideband (using a prolific chipset serial to USB adapter) - but your logging speed won't be as good as you'll get with the ESL software directly. It's not a massive amount of effort to convert the voltage into an AFR reading - you can do it very quickly in excel and if your live tuning you'll be watching the AFR gauge whilst you work so the logs will be for confirmation or diagnostic purpose mainly.

You probably don't want the wideband in the car full time anyway, it's not a cheap bit of kit and will not like being subjected to high temps over and over again up near the turbo so once it's done it's job you can move it further back in the exhaust if you want to keep the gauge or remove altogether and bring it out every now and again to confirm all is still good.

Yann

That's a real important point. ESL speed logging is directly linked to number of channels logged and cpu duty/operation (priority 1) as I've understood.
But Evoscan or Romraider uses the SSMI protocol also so the logg speed should be the same.
I have evoscan and I'm going to compare, but haven't succeed yet cause I don't have the good car file, and there is no manual... not pnp for me..
And with Evoscan/Romraider you can have pluggins features (external WB system) from a second usb port on laptop, but maybe as you said with decreased logging speed...

Yes, agree with you. That is not a big deal even without gauge, most wb system have a linear 0-5V output so that is simple correspondance table.

I think at this also... but maybe I will need to keep the WB on the car and that is why I am considering this way :
- EGT sensor instead of NarrowBand Sensor, not the best location I know but no-mods to do make on the pre-turbo exhaust. Control via a gauge must be enough for me as the T° isn't very dynamic.
- info : I only have a sportcat on my newage exhaust line
- WB sensor on the existing O2 bung on the midpipe, (this location must be OK for lifetime ), and with the simulated NB output to the NB connector.
- Flexfuel sensor with gauge

I think I will need to keep the WB because I would like to run with E85 (quite common here in France), and there is no flexfuel feature in ESL (but a scale factor so that's fine). And E85 here is not stable at all for ethanol% inside (winter E85 is not same as summer E85 eg).


Do you think it makes sense ?

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

yes that makes sense, ideally i would put the wideband in front of the cat (top of the downpipe) for tuning then move it behind the cat when your done setting up so you can keep an eye on things.