The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Right, now the car is performing well i thought id make Map No2 a play map and map in some good pops n bangs


I know you have Re-injection but this on its own doesnt do alot, i need to know what areas of timing the Base needs to be be etc, my advance timing is at 0 for low load throughout the rev range, Base timing is around the late 30`s to early 40 degrees from memory so where would be good to set the base timings , from current base should I go retarded by 10 degrees to what my current base timings are ?

So, any advice for good pops n bangs at rev and over run ?

Cheers

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

we had a big thread for this on the romraider forum, general consensus is to get a decent pop you need some fuel and some negative timing.

Check your re-injection table and try setting it up at 6500 for 80-100 degrees coolant (that way you don't get pops when cold or when overheating as you still have 110 at normal). Then see where your timing lands on the base timing table on overrun - likely to be the lowest load cell you have and try anything from -10 up to 0.

Or just switch on antilag on the 2nd map - if you want your brakes to work then drop the ICV override (so your disabling the track/race benefit of antilag) but you'll still get the late spark and overrun fuelling to get the sound effects.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

My reinjection was set to 3200 and car felt awful tbh,with the over run coming in early you will lose engine braking but I guess that's the sacrifice for pops and bangs?
As bludgod says it will want plenty of timing retard on the top line of load in the over run area.
I think The Rig has v1/2 so no ALS.
I have ALS and it a great flame thrower lol pops and bangs are an understatement

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

ahhhh no als ok in that case - keep emailing ESL until they give you antilag

but the idea is the same anyway, overrun fuel and negative/zero timing in the low load areas and you should be cooking up a storm. Play around with different amounts of timing at different rpm points - also it may work if you play with your AFR targets at that area too to get more/less fuel in there.

If your setting negative/zero timing then be sure your knock advance table isn't kindly adding anything for you either!

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Not sure if would be any help to you but I could post up my ALS tables for you to look at,I'm at work now but will put em up tonight when I get home.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Cheers guys , a few things to try then when I get an hour spare , my base timing is 38 to 42 at my lowest load point so putting 0 in the low load point should make hell of a difference then ha

I get a pop n bang now and again when warm if I accelerate then in low gear and hold the clutch a second before changing gear but it's never consistent ha so I'm hoping my fuelling is already rich enough so the timing and reinjection changes Will be 1st on the list , then if nothing will go down an AFR say from 13 to 12

So setting reinjection higher , to 6500 that's basically leaving injectors on until 6500 rpm ?

Not sure my headers would cope with pure anti lag lol

If you could pop ur anti lag figures up ossett2k2 that would be cool to see

Cheers guys

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

See how this looks,remembered I had my tablet with me,if you need a better pic tho I will take a screen shot on the laptop.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

aye so zero advance/retard to get noise, with a 20% enrichment when off throttle. The late spark I don't think you can do so zero will have to be as close as you can get on your one.

Anko Dragt

The stock ESL Anti lag map will do pretty decent pops n bangs. just make sure you lean it out to 1 @idle and and run no retard angle @idle so you can keep the ICV at 1025 and
retain normal idling.

You'll need a fair bit of retard to get pops/bangs and some extra fuel will help.

Leave the reinjection alone for pops/bangs.. it will mess up some of the drivability.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Crikey , there are some different settings on ALS lol !

Ok so will put 0 timing on low load cells across the Rev range up to 6500 on base and advanced tables , will leave reinjection at 1000 for now and rich enough up AFR on the same load cells by 1 AFR and see if I get any pops n bangs . How do you work out 20% enrichment of an AFR of say 13.8 ? My maths is crap lol

Looking at the trace feature my TPS is at 5.5 so it's the 2nd cell on low load that is used (6) as the first cell is 4 , glad I spotted that lol

Might adjust the TPS so it's at 4 rather than 5.5 so it actually uses the lowest load cell , hmmmm

Cheers guys

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

what you might find is when you lift off injectors will cut off too - hence the need for increasing the reinjection limit to bring them back on again. I wouldn't worry too much on the AFR target - try 13ish or 11ish and see what works for you. 9s will give a pretty big event but just feels like it's gonna wreck something.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Ok bud , I was testing my current reinjection on the way home , when I lift off and use engine braking , they do indeed shut off as the wideband reads 22.9 until 1100 rpm , as they should as they are set to 1000 At the moment .

As I don't generally get to a high rpm when I throttle off for the pops , I'm thinking set injectors to 3500 , so they operate until this rev range as not liking the idea of them on all the time if I set them to 6500 , hmmmm

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

See how you get on but I didn't like the way the car drove with re-injection set to 3500,maybe because my timing and fuel weren't set up correctly tho but that's the story of my map tbh.
It didn't really pop&bang but with timing set to 20 in the low load/lift off then I'm not surprised! As bludgod says,needs to be negative or zero at least to have any affect I would have thought.
Be interesting to see how you get on. I can just flick a switch now if I want fireworks but don't use that either atm.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Yeah , will make some changes and see what happens , like you say, if the rest of the map was out, reinjection at 3500 might of not been what it could be etc . But you say your timing was at 20 , mines at 38 upewards at low load !!

I won't go negative timing , 0 is brace enough for me , the thought if the spark occurring After Tdc ( negative ) scares me somewhat lol

Im jealous of you anti lag boys.

sean turbo2000

iTrader: (1)

tried before on my esl, pretty sure you cant enter 0 in the base table, or atleast i couldnt, didnt get any pops or bangs so just reverted back to normal settings

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Just had a look at the map which was on the car when I bought it,recently pro mapped,I'm guessing the 25(I said 20) is for pops and bangs??
Timing map bellow(not pretty,but maybe I'm wrong and this is how it should look??)

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Generally that timing map doesnt look bad, not sure why the 1st 3 cells are low at low load but generally its not too far from my total ignition map

Wonder why your map only had 25 degrees in, as people have said a 0 is needed,maybe the mapper thought it was enough

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

So, just having an experiment offline, this is the settings i plan to apply, if i dont get my TPS down to 4 as to match the Map, my TPS being at 5.5 my low load starts on cell 6.

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Maybe just very mild pops&bangs @25?
I've cleaned the map up a little,not sure what the sudden jump in timing in 1200-1600rpm is all about and in 44-50 load on boost it was detting it's **** off!

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

i've seen low load low timing as a fix for having high fuel pressure or very large injectors fitted when running full mafless - it makes the idle a bit smoother vs trying to get the AFR's on point and pushing for a little more advance.

25 vs 0, just depends on the car and the setup, with your live mapableness you can just rattle through a few variations until you find a sound you like whilst the rest of us poor romraidererers have to flash test flash test flash test.

fwiw i've never had an issue with starting overrun much higher to create sound effects. 3500 would be about the norm for daily plops with 0 timing so you get a bit of a big pop/bang when you touch the pedal around 3200-3500 (takes a bit of practice to get it just right).

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

rig - if your doing a live trace on that, what cells are you hitting when you let off the pedal?

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

I would have though you will need them zero's in the lowest load column and that's where your load will be when you lift off throttle won't it?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

As i was explaining guys, my TPS is at 5.5 so at idle/low load the trace is running along the 6 column as 4 isnt used as its lower than the 5.5 my TPS is at, hence i said i was goign to try to adjust the TPS to get it at 4 so it matches the software, but if i were to setup now, id have to run it as ive shown in the pic along the 6 column.




Do you mean start reinjection higher ie 6500 or earlier on in the scale from coolant temp 50 etc ?

cheers guys

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

When you say 5.5 TPS I'm I right in thinking this is the lowest number you log when fully off throttle?
My lowest point is 16.5 and I hit the lowest loads column of 5 when coming off the gas.
My highest point is 86.5 full throttle too.
How do you adjust TPS Rig?

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Thats right, when i run a trace at idle off throttle it sits along the 6 column and when i run the throttle positition % Data Logger box being ticked its reading 5.5 at idle . just assumed the 2 were related as they tally up, at low loads and high, my highest being 62 or something at full load but if your TPS % is reading 16.5 at idle yet your trace is running along 5 in the software, im confused lol

You adjust the TPS on the throttle body, undo the screws, hook up the ESL software and start the car, run the trace and then adjust the TPS until it reads what you want it to, so i have been told, im yet to try this tho !!

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

The throttle position is not inline with engine load,that's why I thought you would be hitting the lowest load column when lifting off throttle on the move,even just revving I hit the lowest column when coming off throttle.
I only use throttle position for boost tables so 16.5-86.5 is ok for me,I don't want to mess with the sensor.

Just have trace on while driving and see if you hit the lowest Column.

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Hmmm interesting, i must be lucky or coincidental as my TPS % is pretty darn close to engine load, hence i always assumed the 2 married up ha lol. as i say, at idle, TPS reads 5.5 and the trace runs along the 6 column, at full chat the TPS reads 62 and the trace runs on this column also , weird lol

will double check with a trace im not hitting the lowest load, if i do , it never used to but if it does, bonus

cheers

ossett2k2

iTrader: (9)

Trace and trail,do you have it turning and staying light blue on the map when you drive of just Rev the car? Makes it easy to see where you have been hitting without looking at logs.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

as above, do a trace on the log - i would say its freaky that your TPS and your load value line up but stranger things have happened. Driving vs idleing will likely be different though so worth checking both to be sure.

The overrun injection yes I normally leave all the tables as they are and just tweak the ones for normal coolant temps (usually leave the highest value stock and the few before it adjusted). So as the car warms up it drives as normal and when it overheats it drives as normal. The coolant points you want to pop pop then just up the value - 3500 for regular bop as you shift gears at low speed or up a bit higher for more sound effects. An antilag car would have it on all the time that antilag is active all the time as the throttle would always be kicked open so that's where the flames are coming from.

bludgod

iTrader: (3)

one of those hooked to battery and hidden in the glovebox will sort that - don't try it in the ciggy lighter though, cost me 4 fuses before i worked that out!