Esl upgrade
23 August 2015, 01:11 PM
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Esl upgrade
Hi guys I'm after an ESL for My97 uk turbo, got an Apexi Fc at the moment, Anyone recomend someone that supplies and fit or has anyone got one for sale (3 plug ecu).
Regards
Regards
23 August 2015, 08:26 PM
#3
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks mate, I'll send him a message
Try Duncan at http://www.racedynamix.co.uk/remap/s...tions-limited/
He's well priced, and i've heard nothing but good comments about him.
He's well priced, and i've heard nothing but good comments about him.
23 August 2015, 09:29 PM
#5
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
24 August 2015, 07:36 AM
#6
No its not, just because you peddle the ESL doesnt make it "poor" advice....
Your cost comparison is based on buying new v new, the OP already has an Apexi fitted by the sounds of it, and changing the ECU will then end up costing him more when the one he has does the job perfectly....
So by the time he has a "full kit" its £676 for a 2nd map, some pops and bangs (No "REAL" ALS that builds positive boost as it only jacka the IACV, which any mapper could put it on the apexi) and ditching the MAF sensor.
Alot of expense for what it is, considering his ECU does everything perfectly capably as it is.
Most peoples cars do not need "ALS" its just for show, so get that mapped in for £100 no need a a £600 ECU... 2nd map, again, not needed, nice but not a requirement. The only benefit is the MAP sensor, which if you are clever looks like it can be changed to map anyway...
Your cost comparison is based on buying new v new, the OP already has an Apexi fitted by the sounds of it, and changing the ECU will then end up costing him more when the one he has does the job perfectly....
So by the time he has a "full kit" its £676 for a 2nd map, some pops and bangs (No "REAL" ALS that builds positive boost as it only jacka the IACV, which any mapper could put it on the apexi) and ditching the MAF sensor.
Alot of expense for what it is, considering his ECU does everything perfectly capably as it is.
Most peoples cars do not need "ALS" its just for show, so get that mapped in for £100 no need a a £600 ECU... 2nd map, again, not needed, nice but not a requirement. The only benefit is the MAP sensor, which if you are clever looks like it can be changed to map anyway...
31 August 2015, 09:59 PM
#7
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 895
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I've said, you advice is spectacularly poor and it is obvious you have no experience of tuning with either system.
Of course the comparison is like for like, that's what makes it a valid comparison.
You obviously have no understanding of an antilag system. Here are some of ESLs motorsport parameters, none of which the Apexi has:
So tell me, how would you implement ALS on the Apexi without seperate switchable tables for Fuel cut, late spark, retard, enrichment and ICV override?
You then go on about "only jacka the IACV" obviously without realising that is the only actuator on a classic the ECU has control of to increase airflow. You can run any method of throttle jacking you like, and as the ESL system has 3D tables you can control as much boost as you can flow air.
The fact is you can sell a secondhand Apexi and AVCR for more than a new ESL ECU and get twin maps, MAFless load, 3D boost control, active knock control, ALS, LC, TC, Flatshift, Diagnostics, closed loop idle and fuel, factory compensations, etc etc etc.
You then witter on about MAP sensors. Am I right in thinking you think the Apexi can be run speed density on a classic Subaru? Because, if so, you are completely wrong again.
You are a mine of misinformation. I really hope no one listens to you as they will be significantly worse off.
Of course the comparison is like for like, that's what makes it a valid comparison.
You obviously have no understanding of an antilag system. Here are some of ESLs motorsport parameters, none of which the Apexi has:
So tell me, how would you implement ALS on the Apexi without seperate switchable tables for Fuel cut, late spark, retard, enrichment and ICV override?
You then go on about "only jacka the IACV" obviously without realising that is the only actuator on a classic the ECU has control of to increase airflow. You can run any method of throttle jacking you like, and as the ESL system has 3D tables you can control as much boost as you can flow air.
The fact is you can sell a secondhand Apexi and AVCR for more than a new ESL ECU and get twin maps, MAFless load, 3D boost control, active knock control, ALS, LC, TC, Flatshift, Diagnostics, closed loop idle and fuel, factory compensations, etc etc etc.
You then witter on about MAP sensors. Am I right in thinking you think the Apexi can be run speed density on a classic Subaru? Because, if so, you are completely wrong again.
You are a mine of misinformation. I really hope no one listens to you as they will be significantly worse off.
Trending Topics
01 September 2015, 01:55 AM
#8
Well said Andy.
I have had the pleasure of using ESL and can highly recommend it.
It's worth the money just to be able to data log and look at every Parameter even if it's just to learn about how the engine is running in any given circumstance
Oh and the motorsports Features work amazingly well!
I have had the pleasure of using ESL and can highly recommend it.
It's worth the money just to be able to data log and look at every Parameter even if it's just to learn about how the engine is running in any given circumstance
Oh and the motorsports Features work amazingly well!
Last edited by ossett2k2; 01 September 2015 at 02:14 AM.
01 September 2015, 06:03 AM
#9
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Belfast
Posts: 2,999
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said Andy. I have had the pleasure of using ESL and can highly recommend it. It's worth the money just to be able to data log and look at every Parameter even if it's just to learn about how the engine is running in any given circumstance Oh and the motorsports Features work amazingly well!
Oh and the motorsports Features work amazingly well!
01 September 2015, 11:33 AM
#10
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
01 September 2015, 09:41 PM
#11
When I bought my v3 type r I also bought the apexi and to be fair I would have been very happy with it having had it on my last 98 wrx. I sold it after reading up on the ESL. I did this to have 2 maps, better boost control and the knock control that works very well imo. Im still running on a maf but if this ever becomes a problem I can remap (myself) to mafless.
I also paid for the motor sport options so it cost another £100. I think the cost is low enough to never have to worry about resale. I did buy a spare 6s just in case I want to revert back to standard, which cost me £26 delivered.
Ive also received quality support from Andy over the last year or so.
Has anyone stated anything feature on the apexi that is better than esl, other than the controller?
I also paid for the motor sport options so it cost another £100. I think the cost is low enough to never have to worry about resale. I did buy a spare 6s just in case I want to revert back to standard, which cost me £26 delivered.
Ive also received quality support from Andy over the last year or so.
Has anyone stated anything feature on the apexi that is better than esl, other than the controller?
02 September 2015, 11:26 AM
#14
As I've said, you advice is spectacularly poor and it is obvious you have no experience of tuning with either system.
Of course the comparison is like for like, that's what makes it a valid comparison.
You obviously have no understanding of an antilag system. Here are some of ESLs motorsport parameters, none of which the Apexi has:
So tell me, how would you implement ALS on the Apexi without seperate switchable tables for Fuel cut, late spark, retard, enrichment and ICV override?
You then go on about "only jacka the IACV" obviously without realising that is the only actuator on a classic the ECU has control of to increase airflow. You can run any method of throttle jacking you like, and as the ESL system has 3D tables you can control as much boost as you can flow air.
The fact is you can sell a secondhand Apexi and AVCR for more than a new ESL ECU and get twin maps, MAFless load, 3D boost control, active knock control, ALS, LC, TC, Flatshift, Diagnostics, closed loop idle and fuel, factory compensations, etc etc etc.
You then witter on about MAP sensors. Am I right in thinking you think the Apexi can be run speed density on a classic Subaru? Because, if so, you are completely wrong again.
You are a mine of misinformation. I really hope no one listens to you as they will be significantly worse off.
Of course the comparison is like for like, that's what makes it a valid comparison.
You obviously have no understanding of an antilag system. Here are some of ESLs motorsport parameters, none of which the Apexi has:
So tell me, how would you implement ALS on the Apexi without seperate switchable tables for Fuel cut, late spark, retard, enrichment and ICV override?
You then go on about "only jacka the IACV" obviously without realising that is the only actuator on a classic the ECU has control of to increase airflow. You can run any method of throttle jacking you like, and as the ESL system has 3D tables you can control as much boost as you can flow air.
The fact is you can sell a secondhand Apexi and AVCR for more than a new ESL ECU and get twin maps, MAFless load, 3D boost control, active knock control, ALS, LC, TC, Flatshift, Diagnostics, closed loop idle and fuel, factory compensations, etc etc etc.
You then witter on about MAP sensors. Am I right in thinking you think the Apexi can be run speed density on a classic Subaru? Because, if so, you are completely wrong again.
You are a mine of misinformation. I really hope no one listens to you as they will be significantly worse off.
I think Glanza's head is still spinning as he hasn't replied
I imagine he's frantically searching Google for an intelligent reply
02 September 2015, 08:34 PM
#15
Nope, I did type a reply, but cant be arsed seeing as the "expert" knows it all.....
Apexi ECUS can run on speed density or MAF, if you know how
Had one in my Glanza doing exactly that. He wont accept anything any one else says as it is all about the money, of course his product is best, much the same as it is probably better than a Syvecs, motec etc.... Yawn.
Apexi ECUS can run on speed density or MAF, if you know how
Had one in my Glanza doing exactly that. He wont accept anything any one else says as it is all about the money, of course his product is best, much the same as it is probably better than a Syvecs, motec etc.... Yawn.
02 September 2015, 10:20 PM
#16
Nope, I did type a reply, but cant be arsed seeing as the "expert" knows it all.....
Apexi ECUS can run on speed density or MAF, if you know how
Had one in my Glanza doing exactly that. He wont accept anything any one else says as it is all about the money, of course his product is best, much the same as it is probably better than a Syvecs, motec etc.... Yawn.
Apexi ECUS can run on speed density or MAF, if you know how
Had one in my Glanza doing exactly that. He wont accept anything any one else says as it is all about the money, of course his product is best, much the same as it is probably better than a Syvecs, motec etc.... Yawn.
He is one of the nicest, most genuine and knowledgable chaps ive had the pleasure of meeting through the Impreza community.
You really are fighting a losing battle here as Andy does know what he's talking about.
03 September 2015, 07:45 AM
#17
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks Guys been quoted £800 by Duncan to supply and fit ESL with the added Motorsport function, does that seem to the going rate? seems quite a lot of money, thought was £575 as advertised on his website, I've got a Subaru a impreza Turbo 1997 V4,
03 September 2015, 08:40 AM
#18
Seems a fair price for a decent mapper and an awesome piece of kit.
Does he advertise £575+vat? Are you going on the dyno,if so there is a small cost for that.
Oh and the Motorsport pack is well worth the money
Just to add.. If you're getting the full package and want to use all the features then you will want a some switches installed,a switch for antilag and one for the clutch if you want to use flat foot shifting. Maybe this is all in with the £800
Does he advertise £575+vat? Are you going on the dyno,if so there is a small cost for that.
Oh and the Motorsport pack is well worth the money
Just to add.. If you're getting the full package and want to use all the features then you will want a some switches installed,a switch for antilag and one for the clutch if you want to use flat foot shifting. Maybe this is all in with the £800
Last edited by ossett2k2; 03 September 2015 at 08:44 AM.
03 September 2015, 10:16 AM
#19
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On his website its £575 doesn't mention vat or anything, says supply fit and mapped, he quoted me £800 all in, I'll send him a message to confirm what's included etc, Thanks mate 👍
Seems a fair price for a decent mapper and an awesome piece of kit.
Does he advertise £575+vat? Are you going on the dyno,if so there is a small cost for that.
Oh and the Motorsport pack is well worth the money
Just to add.. If you're getting the full package and want to use all the features then you will want a some switches installed,a switch for antilag and one for the clutch if you want to use flat foot shifting. Maybe this is all in with the £800
Does he advertise £575+vat? Are you going on the dyno,if so there is a small cost for that.
Oh and the Motorsport pack is well worth the money
Just to add.. If you're getting the full package and want to use all the features then you will want a some switches installed,a switch for antilag and one for the clutch if you want to use flat foot shifting. Maybe this is all in with the £800
05 September 2015, 11:22 AM
#21
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Essex
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks mate.
QUOTE=MattyB1983;11731798]Remember that the motorsports pack is an additional £100. So the board itself with motorsports would be roughly £470 including vat if my maths is right.[/QUOTE]
QUOTE=MattyB1983;11731798]Remember that the motorsports pack is an additional £100. So the board itself with motorsports would be roughly £470 including vat if my maths is right.[/QUOTE]
06 September 2015, 09:50 PM
#23
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (7)
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Belfast
Posts: 2,999
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you knew Andy on a personal level then you would know it's certainly not "all about the money". He is one of the nicest, most genuine and knowledgable chaps ive had the pleasure of meeting through the Impreza community. You really are fighting a losing battle here as Andy does know what he's talking about.
21 August 2016, 06:04 PM
#24
If you knew Andy on a personal level then you would know it's certainly not "all about the money".
He is one of the nicest, most genuine and knowledgable chaps ive had the pleasure of meeting through the Impreza community.
You really are fighting a losing battle here as Andy does know what he's talking about.
He is one of the nicest, most genuine and knowledgable chaps ive had the pleasure of meeting through the Impreza community.
You really are fighting a losing battle here as Andy does know what he's talking about.
He obviously doesn't know that much....
21 August 2016, 07:23 PM
#26
21 August 2016, 08:08 PM
#28
Years ago I remember the apexi fc using one of Andrew Carrs little boxes to allow it to run mafless. Neither Apexi or esl can run mafless without a few modifications, either a maf simulator for the apexi or a simple bit of wiring with the ESL. I would point our that the ESL was designed to run mafless where the standard apexi wasn't.
What I don't understand is why Andy Stevens and ESL get all this crap and abuse about the product.
What I don't understand is why Andy Stevens and ESL get all this crap and abuse about the product.
21 August 2016, 08:13 PM
#29
Look at the date he posted that.....
But the funniest part is its taken you a year to find a post that sort of agrees with your point...lol...
Email Andy Forrest now and ask him if he'd choose an apexi PFC over ESL....
Last edited by MattyB1983; 21 August 2016 at 08:18 PM.
21 August 2016, 08:18 PM
#30
Years ago I remember the apexi fc using one of Andrew Carrs little boxes to allow it to run mafless. Neither Apexi or esl can run mafless without a few modifications, either a maf simulator for the apexi or a simple bit of wiring with the ESL. I would point our that the ESL was designed to run mafless where the standard apexi wasn't.
What I don't understand is why Andy Stevens and ESL get all this crap and abuse about the product.
What I don't understand is why Andy Stevens and ESL get all this crap and abuse about the product.
To be honest the reason is because of the way he went off on one on this thread. If you want to deal with people who respond to threads in that manner that's your choice. I wouldn't put up with it.